Adam & Eve were Vegans - till the Fall from Grace?

a reply to: Blue Shift

Well, you need to read your Bible a little more closely, because not long after Adam and Eve eat the fruit God pays them a little visit, and lo and behold, can't even find them. Creator of the universe, but can't keep track of the only two people in existence that he himself created. That's the story, anyway. Feel free to pick and choose from the holy word of God Almighty, but it's that kind of stuff that'll keep you out of Heaven.

So because I believe that God instantly knew that Adam sinned and yet asked Adam where he was, then i can't go to heaven? Where is that found in the NT?

Never mind. -- I knew it was not in the scriptures and yet I did the same thing to you that God did to Adam. You see I already knew that it was not in the NT and yet I asked you where it was in the NT. You know how to read but you don't understand contextual form.

You could also expand your ignorance in believing that if God could not find Adam then God did not see Adam eat of the tree and God would then be guilty of an unjust punishment of Adam. Be careful how far you want to take your mind in criticizing the Most High. When the hole gets too deep you should quit digging.

If you're reading the story of Adam and Eve literally, then you have to wonder why there were domestic (cattle/livestock) animals separate from the wild beasts.

I would surmise that they at least had milk.

God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

originally posted by: Seede
You could also expand your ignorance in believing that if God could not find Adam then God did not see Adam eat of the tree and God would then be guilty of an unjust punishment of Adam.

Like I said, pick and choose if you like. If your God wanted to punish Adam, he could just uncreate him. He could turn back time. He could maybe not even bother creating the forbidden fruit. Your God seems to need reasons for doing things, rather than just have it be that his will be done is the last word on the subject. Why do you limit your God so much? (I'll tell you why.)

Anyway, it's not the only time God is portrayed as not knowing what's going on. Like when he asked Cain where Abel was. As if he didn't already know, but was just getting Able to lie to him on top of everything else. Why was God like that.

Figure out why? That's right. It's because the very powerful creature in the Bible was not the unfathomable, omnipotent creator entity who would not only know these things but actually had the infinite power to negate or reverse them, but rather a weaker, limited demiurge that only thought it was God. And you're been worshiping it. Tsk. Tsk.

a reply to: Blue Shift

Figure out why? That's right. It's because the very powerful creature in the Bible was not the unfathomable, omnipotent creator entity who would not only know these things but actually had the infinite power to negate or reverse them, but rather a weaker, limited demiurge that only thought it was God. And you're been worshiping it. Tsk. Tsk.

I do not need to figure out why. That is the difference between you and me. The Most High is not a creature nor is He to be analyzed by a pitiful creature that He caused to exist. He is total Spirit and you have no idea what Spirit is even though your body is controlled by your spirit. I believe you made your point known and I don't hate you for your opinion. You are a misdirected creature that will one day perish and become nothing of any worth to all that will exist after you perish. I hope you live long enough to realize your ignorance.

originally posted by: visitedbythem

originally posted by: fromtheskydown

originally posted by: visitedbythem
I have three kids they are all vegan for years, except my daughter has recently ad a little wild salmon. Don't think vegans are weak. My sons are badass. They are crazy strong, and fast, and have put far larger men in the hospital. The last one had a bleeding brain from two punches. A left jab to stun, then a right haymaker that knocked the guy out cold. I can tell you first hand. They are not weak

You're actually boasting about your offspring giving someone a bleed on the brain?

Yes.

The other guy came after him, drove up onto the side walk to cut him off, and challenged him. The best defense is a good offence.

Any other questions?

Yeah...don't you know how to put things in context when telling a story or citing an event?

originally posted by: fromtheskydown

originally posted by: visitedbythem

originally posted by: fromtheskydown

originally posted by: visitedbythem
I have three kids they are all vegan for years, except my daughter has recently ad a little wild salmon. Don't think vegans are weak. My sons are badass. They are crazy strong, and fast, and have put far larger men in the hospital. The last one had a bleeding brain from two punches. A left jab to stun, then a right haymaker that knocked the guy out cold. I can tell you first hand. They are not weak

You're actually boasting about your offspring giving someone a bleed on the brain?

Yes.

The other guy came after him, drove up onto the side walk to cut him off, and challenged him. The best defense is a good offence.

Any other questions?

Yeah...don't you know how to put things in context when telling a story or citing an event?

Have a brexit

a reply to: tulsi

In the garden of Eden, all Adam & Eve apparently ate was vegan fare. Cause God told them to.

Actually it is understood by Nazarene teaching that the man and woman were both of celestial substance in the garden and that all that was in the garden was also celestial. This is meant to teach that the thought of meat eating was not present at this time because in order to eat meat or by products of meat was to either slay [kill] or harvest by products from creatures outside the garden. Sin was not present at this time in the garden and flesh and blood was not allowed to exist in the celestial realm of the garden The man and woman had no other knowledge of killing or eating anything outside of the garden. The Creator instructed Adam that all was permitted to eat from the garden except one seed and that one seed is believed to be figs.

And yet God accepted Abels Lamb, which belongs to the meat food group, while rejecting Cains vegetarian diet as an offering.

a reply to: Specimen88

And yet God accepted Abels Lamb, which belongs to the meat food group, while rejecting Cains vegetarian diet as an offering.

God's permissive will was not established at this time because the knowledge of death was not experienced as yet. The earth was cursed from perfection to corruption but meat was not yet experienced by the human and this offering was not a sin offering. This offering was to show the love for the Creator and the willingness to give that which had the greatest value to the giver. It had nothing to do with the food chain.

Cain made no effort in giving anything that was precious or of great value. He gave from the plentiful source of the cursed earth. He had a bad attitude knowing that between the two that one would be favored more than the other and by foreknowldge the Creator knew his heart. This was proven as Cain killed his brother with this same attitude.

GENESIS 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

1. "In the Image of God created he him" (born without a biological father)
2. "male and female created he them" (Jona didn't know he was the whale, or apart of it, until it was revealed)

God did'nt react to an "Adam and Eve" initially, God reacted first to the "generations without sin", then later on, God revealed that from time to time. The "Adam and Eve" argument, is something lesser

(God was going to give Adam power and authority at an appointed time ................... Adam was not obligated to wrestle with God over the taking of wives, regardless of any contention with unclean people, and their crimes against him or etc.) (the matter was between God and Adam only* in some respects)

(Some Minor Guess Work)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumerian_King_List

Alulim to Ubara-Tutu .......... is chronology for the "Generations without Sin" (these are the "sons of man" under "Joseph" in the new testament, in the old testament only angels could be "sons of man", that is to say, Moses did not write a law, Moses did not lead the people it was "aaron" at that time)

First dynasty of Kish = Generations of Shem in the Bible (which includes Evolutionary Tables, Genetic Lines that did not survive to the appearance of the homosapien)

GENESIS 11:10 These [are] the generations of Shem: Shem [was] an hundred years old, and begat Arphaxad two years after the flood:
Jushur 1,200 years

First rulers of Uruk = This begins the Chronology of the Homosapien, (Adam and Eve)
Mayan Calendar cuts in with its creation date, same relative statement

"PELEG" in the Genealogy of Shem (denoted to root basis of Adam's Genealogy for Homosapien)
Ur-Nungal "the son of Gilgamesh" 30 years

The Homosapien's Lifespan drops below 120 Years, this is a legal statement, this is the Great Flood of Sumeria, the portal (s) were closed from any direct observation.

(Son of Man under Joseph, is Given Authority or Power, relative to a 30 year mark in his age not approximately)
(A WIFE IS NOT NECESSARY FOR THE TRANSITION, its only god's allowances in mercy, even if it were never used, the WIFE is not necessary)

................

(you have questions about the other divisions in the Sumerian King's List, they are not important, but I will say. "Joseph in Egypt as a picture of the Lord Jesus, is very Important ............... so was "the THREE WISE MEN" at the time of Jesus under the "Cabal", which is to say the "generations without sin" ................... the rest of the information, would be the apostles, various persons to the present time, and including Moses as the Engisn of Nations according to Isaiah, and other not known or misplaced individuals like Edward Leedskalnin for example)

a reply to: osciline

God did'nt react to an "Adam and Eve" initially, God reacted first to the "generations without sin", then later on, God revealed that from time to time. The "Adam and Eve" argument, is something lesser

To my knowledge there is no generation without sin in this terrestrial creation. According to scriptures of both Hebrew and Greek bibles all people who have ever lived have sinned. [except Jesus] ---

Alulim to Ubara-Tutu .......... is chronology for the "Generations without Sin" (these are the "sons of man" under "Joseph" in the new testament, in the old testament only angels could be "sons of man", that is to say, Moses did not write a law, Moses did not lead the people it was "aaron" at that time)

If you are referencing Alulim to Ubara-Tutu as an era then it is an era many centuries before Adam was formed and is evidenced to be the expelled host of the first creation which we call angels. If these are the expelled heavenly host then they are not without sin and are contained in Sheol this very day. If they are not the expelled heavenly host then they are most certainly not of our Adamic seed and are of another creation.

Now concerning your understanding of Aaron and his authority. Aaron was a help meet given to Moses and was a prophet from The Most High but Aaron was not chosen to be of authority above or equal to Moses. Moses was the god of the Hebrews given to the Hebrews by The Most High. Brother Aaron was Moses' prophet only [Exodus 7:1] - This is why Aaron was not punished when the Hebrews formed the Sin god [moon god] into the golden calf. This is not to say that Aaron was not in fault but only to show Aaron's authority.

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: osciline

God did'nt react to an "Adam and Eve" initially, God reacted first to the "generations without sin", then later on, God revealed that from time to time. The "Adam and Eve" argument, is something lesser

To my knowledge there is no generation without sin in this terrestrial creation. According to scriptures of both Hebrew and Greek bibles all people who have ever lived have sinned. [except Jesus] ---

Alulim to Ubara-Tutu .......... is chronology for the "Generations without Sin" (these are the "sons of man" under "Joseph" in the new testament, in the old testament only angels could be "sons of man", that is to say, Moses did not write a law, Moses did not lead the people it was "aaron" at that time)

If you are referencing Alulim to Ubara-Tutu as an era then it is an era many centuries before Adam was formed and is evidenced to be the expelled host of the first creation which we call angels. If these are the expelled heavenly host then they are not without sin and are contained in Sheol this very day. If they are not the expelled heavenly host then they are most certainly not of our Adamic seed and are of another creation.

Now concerning your understanding of Aaron and his authority. Aaron was a help meet given to Moses and was a prophet from The Most High but Aaron was not chosen to be of authority above or equal to Moses. Moses was the god of the Hebrews given to the Hebrews by The Most High. Brother Aaron was Moses' prophet only [Exodus 7:1] - This is why Aaron was not punished when the Hebrews formed the Sin god [moon god] into the golden calf. This is not to say that Aaron was not in fault but only to show Aaron's authority.

Joshua 12 Genealogy is "Thirty and One" ............ Jesus is Thirty Measurement for Joseph ............ There is one Missing from Matthew 41's Genealogy ............ This "One Generation" is the Generation without Sin. (God called Jesus the "Emmanuel" as the head of the Sons of Man under Joseph in the New Testament, that is the missing "ONE" that we've said).

God has really Measured "72 for Joseph in the New Testament"...............That means from Roswell UFO, in 1947 to 2019 = 72 Years or One Precessional Degree, until God Finishes the Last Activation of the Son of Man Under Joseph. God gave two measurements, one for a wive that is 2020 and one without a wive or wives that is 2019. That is to day Daniel's Weeks are in years, (with 12/21/2012 as reference), and Daniel's Days are in Days (you can simply go back from the Halley's Comet (father of jesus), 41 or 42 years for both conclusion sets as was said).

(The people at Roswell in 2019 this year were celebrating Moses, his point of activation should be this year)

(50 Generations of Genesis 18, are either without sin as a double reference, or, God has provided more detail in the new testament, and that was already said) (when god gives a law, then that law is doubled)
..............
..............
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EXODUS 15:22 So Moses brought Israel from the Red sea, and they went out into the wilderness of Shur; and they went three days in the wilderness, and found no water.
EXODUS 15:23 And when they came to Marah, they could not drink of the waters of Marah, for they [were] bitter: therefore the name of it was called Marah.
EXODUS 15:24 And the people murmured against Moses, saying, What shall we drink?
..............
The Generations of Shem, which are in the tables before the homosapien, did not see corruption, they do not and have not existed along side mankind...............you are left only with false witnesses, "dead flesh", and those genetic lines that must be killed.

The Generations without Sin, also existed before the homosapien, and, they were passed on to man in the kings of judah or which is to say for Joseph in the New Testament (which are the sons of man in the new testament, or, in the old testament levites or only god's angels).

(euthanasia, what happens now and in less than 30 days, and our discoveries about "dead flesh" will correct all of this information, all of this will begin soon)

(that was an implied statement about mars, that is an area will have to learn more about) (God is not serving only suicide and pleasure, God is satisfying his rebuke and then cutting that argument short) (lots of variables and time is up, this year!!!)

(if God killed the Generations without Sin, in genesis, and they were killed again in Genesis 18, does this mean they were judged on two planets at at least two times near our earth sun?) (something to think about)

a reply to: osciline

Joshua 12 Genealogy is "Thirty and One" ............ Jesus is Thirty Measurement for Joseph ............ There is one Missing from Matthew 41's Genealogy ............ This "One Generation" is the Generation without Sin. (God called Jesus the "Emmanuel" as the head of the Sons of Man under Joseph in the New Testament, that is the missing "ONE" that we've said).

Please post your sources of your genealogies. Also show your source of sinless people ever existing.

It should also be noted that while they were in the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve were dumb as dirt.

to: osciline
The reason I asked you for your sources in your understanding genealogies is because we have two distinct avenues of counting genealogies in the NT of KJV bible. I belive this will help you to understand that difference.

Quote
Matthew 1:16 - Luke 3:23

Both Matthew 1 and Luke 3 contain genealogies of Jesus. But there is one problem--they are different. Luke's genealogy starts at Adam and goes to David. Matthew's genealogy starts at Abraham and goes to David. When the genealogies arrive at David, they split with David's sons: Nathan (Mary's side?) and Solomon (Joseph's side).

There are differences of opinion with two main options being offered. The first is that one genealogy is for Mary and the other is for Joseph. It was customary to mention the genealogy through the father even though it was clearly known that it was through Mary.

"The second thing is that this genealogy differs in significant ways from the genealogy in Matthew. Why? Most Bible scholars believe that Luke gives the genealogy of Mary (who was also of the royal Davidic line), while Matthew traces the family of Joseph. Thus by both His mother and His earthly father, Jesus had a right to the throne of Israel."1

"Luke paused from his narrative to give Christ’s genealogy. While Matthew traced Christ’s lineage through Joseph, his legal father (see Matt. 1:1–17), Luke traced it through Mary, beginning with Mary’s father, Heli. (Men in ancient times often regarded their sons-in-law as their own sons.) The lineages of Mary and Joseph converge at King David (compare 3:31 with Matt. 1:6).2

"Those who take the latter opinion, that we have here the line of Mary, as in Matthew that of Joseph—here His real, there His reputed line—explain the statement about Joseph, that he was “the son of Heli,” to mean that he was his son-in-law, as the husband of his daughter Mary (as in Ru 1:11, 12), and believe that Joseph’s name is only introduced instead of Mary’s, in conformity with the Jewish custom in such tables. Perhaps this view is attended with fewest difficulties, as it certainly is the best supported." 3

Some critics may not accept this explanation, and it is not without its problems.

"The theory that Luke really gives us the family tree of Mary rather than of Joseph is improbable. The theory with least difficulties is that Matthew gives the descendants of David down the royal line (i.e. who was heir to the throne at any given time), but Luke gives the particular line to which Joseph belonged.4

The Bible should be interpreted in the context of its literary style, culture, and history. Breaking up genealogies into male and female representations was acceptable in the ancient Near East culture since it was often impolite to speak of women without proper conditions being met: male presence, etc. Therefore, one genealogy might be of Mary and the other of Joseph--even though both mention Joseph. In other words, the Mary genealogy was counted "in" Joseph and under his headship.

I find it difficult to accept that those who collected the books of the New Testament, and who believed it was inerrant, were unaware of this blatant differentiation in genealogies. They must have understood what the historical/cultural context was and had no problem with it. Even though we cannot ascertain at this time a precise explanation does not mean one isn't forthcoming. After all, archaeological discovers clear up Bible "difficulties" on a regular basis. But, back to our discussion.

Notice that Luke starts with Mary and goes backwards to Adam. Matthew starts with Abraham and goes forward to Joseph. The intents of the genealogies were obviously different which is clearly seen in their styles. Luke was not written to the Jews, Matthew was. Therefore, Matthew would carry the legal line (from Abraham through David) and Luke the biological one (from Adam through David). Also, notice that Luke's first three chapters mention Mary eleven times; hence, the genealogy from her. Fourth, notice Luke 3:23, "And when He began His ministry, Jesus Himself was about thirty years of age, being supposedly the son of Joseph, the son of Eli," This designation "supposedly" seems to signify the Marian genealogy since it seems to indicate that Jesus is not the biological son of Joseph.

Finally, in the Joseph genealogy is a man named Jeconiah. God cursed Jeconiah (also called Coniah), stating that no descendant of his would ever sit on the throne of David, "For no man of his descendants will prosper sitting on the throne of David or ruling again in Judah," (Jer. 22:30). But Jesus, of course, will sit on the throne in the heavenly kingdom. The point is that Jesus is not a biological descendant of Jeconiah, but through the other lineage -- that of Mary. Hence, the prophetic curse upon Jeconiah stands inviolate. But, the legal adoption of Jesus by Joseph reckoned the legal rights of Joseph to Jesus as a son, not the biological curse. This is why we need two genealogies: one of Mary (the actually biological line according to prophecy), and the legal line through Joseph.

LUKE - Adam, the father of Seth, the father of Enosh, the father of Cainan, the father of Mahaleleel, the father of Jared, the father of Enoch, the father of Methuselah, the father of Lamech, the father of Noah, the father of Shem, the father of Arphaxad, the father of Cainan, the father of Shelah, the father of Heber, the father of Peleg, the father of Reu, the father of Serug, the father of Nahor, the father of Terah, the father of

MATTHEW - Abraham, the father of Isaac, the father of Jacob, the father of Judah, the father of Perez, the father of Hezron, the father of Ram, the father of Admin, the father of Amminadab, the father of Nahshon, the father of Salmon, the father of Boaz, the father of Obed, the father of Jesse -- the father of

(Mary) LUKE David, father of (Joseph) MATTHEW
Nathan Solomon
Mattatha Rehoboam
Menna Abijah
Melea Asa
Eliakim Jehoshaphat
Jonam Joram
Joseph Uzziah
Judah Jotham
Simeon Ahaz
Levi Hezekiah
Matthat Manasseh
Jorim Amon
Eliezer Josiah
Joshua Jeconiah
Er Shealtiel
Elmadam Zerubbabel
Cosam Abihud
Addi Eliakim
Melchi Azor
Neri Zadok
Shealtiel Achim
Zerubbabel Eliud
Rhesa Eleazar
Joanan Matthan
Joda Jacob
Josech Joseph
Semein Joseph Adopted Jesus
as his own son giving him
all legal rights involving heirship.
Mattathias
Maath
Naggai
Hesli
Nahum
Amos
Mattathias
Joseph
Jannai
Melchi
Levi
Matthat
Eli
supposedly of Joseph (Mary)
JESUS
UnQuote

Do your research and study on the curse of Jeconiah which is crucial to counting the genealogies as well as the Matthew and Luke methods. Remember that the Hebrews were in captivity for seventy years and that the Mathew account says that there were fourteen generations about the time of being carried away to Bablylon. There were two generations during those seventy years of which Jechonias reigned for only three months. Remember that there were fourteen generations of thirty five years counted and not necessarily one for each generation. lol Seede

I am stumbling over this conundrum.

Why would God create Adam and Eve with free will then give then rules that an entity with free will would consider and break using that free will?

God needed parenting classes.

a reply to: InTheLight

I am stumbling over this conundrum. Why would God create Adam and Eve with free will then give then rules that an entity with free will would consider and break using that free will? God needed parenting classes.

This goes much deeper than Adam. The first creation [which we call heaven or celestial] was of a different nature. The first creation was not created in the image or likeness of "The Word." [God] It was from this creation that freedom of actions was first introduced. Because of free will the first created host of the celestial realm was introduced. The reason we have free will is because we are procreated from the second creation called Adam and Adam was begotten from the Spirit Most High. Now if Adam was not to be given free will then Adam could not have been begotten by "The Most High" because then "The Most High" would not have been in Adam's image or his likeness.

The Genesis account says --
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

So if man was to be formed [made] in "The Words' image" and "The Most Highs' likeness then man must have free will. "the Most High God" has both physicality by His image and free will by His likeness and therefore must form man as stated by Moses.

But then the question that is predominate comes to light in that why do we have to have free will? The most sensible answer I have been given is that we must have free will in order to have love as a choice. Free spiritual love toward the Creator is the only experience that can enter into immortality. True spiritual love can only be given through freedom of choice. This brings into play the other side of the coin and that is that evil must be also be offered to have that true choice. You must have choice to show love and unfortunately evil must exist as the opposite from spiritual love. this is why it is said ---
Isaiah_45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Now by all of this we can then understand that rules and regulations were given to use as we learn. A child learns that fire has many forms and must be controlled so that harm will not come upon that child. Fire can be good or evil depending upon how it is used through knowledge. Knowledge comes through free will. So rules and regulations are to help us understand how to be spiritual immortal souls but spiritual love is always forefront as the creation of immortality. Eventually this becomes a part of us without further teaching and the students then become the teacher. As one becomes immortal and free then that one is a creature of love.