Michigan becomes first state to ban sales of flavored e-cigarettes

originally posted by: Gargoyle91
a reply to: CriticalStinker

I've been vaping since before it was a thing , I can tell you it's changed companies are experimenting with to many flavor options for years I have never had a problem with any of the liquids I tried, But now I have to be careful of which ones I use because some of the ingredients don't agree with me anything from causing serve ringing in my ears to my entire nasal passage swelling up and my ear felling like it's totally clogged . I'm at the lowest nicotine level 3mg so i'm considering giving it up completely .

Go to 0 and stay away from the cheap liquid .

originally posted by: AndyFromMichigan

originally posted by: Oleandra88
a reply to: Blue Shift
a reply to: CriticalStinker

No judgement from me, everybody can do whatever they want to their bodies.
I just meant to say that many maybe think it is totally safe. With everything, it is the dose/amount that makes things toxic.

I do think that it is safer than inhaling smoke of course, I agree with you on all what you wrote (except the french fry, I can not verify).

The entire premise of vaping is the idea that it is safer than cigarettes.

The logic is that vaping is safer because you aren't ingesting smoke. Which is probably true, but nobody has studied what you are ingesting, and evidence is beginning to mount that vaping has it's own set of problems.

There are and have been ongoing studies
Just they cant seem to find anything

a reply to: Blue Shift

Yes the lethal dose is generally considered to be 500mg-1000mg. Cigarettes average around 12mg each, with 24 mg being on the high side.

Most e-liquid producers have turned away from the 24 , and 12 is rare.

a reply to: Blue Shift

When that happens let me know, until then vaping is 'safer' than smoking but carries nearly all the same negative consequences, including cancer.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Funny story,

In my local prison, where people are locked-up for possession, cultivation and trafficking of cannabis, they are unable to possess or smoke tobacco and cigarettes, but they can buy various cannabis-flavoured vape pens,

It's absurd, 🤷🏻‍♂️

a reply to: AndyFromMichigan

Like that sickness I was talking about.

Why does nobody address the benefits of nicotine? It's a stimulant! Yes in high enough concentrations it is fatal, and traditionally assassin's blades were coated with the purified substance, in order to ensure a kill, but that was centuries ago. Why isn't anyone talking about how there are no "addicts" per se; there are only PEOPLE self-medicating. The practice is ill-advised, but I can't fault anyone for trying to improve their quality of life by the use of the fruits of the Earth.

Consider the "ADHD epidemic" coursing through our beloved western culture. What sorts of substances do prescribing doctors acknowledge being very effective in treating this calamitous infliction? Stimulants. It seems paradoxical to some that the treatment of a hyperactivity disorder involves the dispensing of chemicals that INCREASE biological activity. Yet those with the mark, who take the pills like Ritalin, Adderall, Concerta, and Dexedrine, report a calming effect. A focusing effect.

The torture that is the hyperactivity disorder is the feeling that despite all of the amazing things that you want to try, that you want to feel and experience, you will never become a master of any of it. You'll amaze your friends with the things that you know and dazzle them with manic plans, and inventions, and machinations, and yet you know that you'll never achieve any of them because before you finish you'll be onto the next thing. You tell your doctor this, and you are prescribed a stimulant, and what do you know? Suddenly you're completing tasks, achieving things that you've never been able to accomplish before, well in excess of your peers. Suddenly you're an f'ing superhero. Or supervillain if that's more your speed. Point is, the medicine works, it makes you who you feel you really should be.

Now what if I told you that humans have been using nicotine and caffeine to achieve this very effect without a prescription for millennia? That we've evolved along side these medicines, just as they have evolved along side of us? But f'ck cigarettes, right? And cigars? You don't need any of that plant medicine. Just take these pills that we can make a profit on.

Yes, inhaling burning plant matter causes cancer. I am well aware of that. Thing is, for most of our history people haven't been living long enough to notice. Now all of a sudden, and SOLELY because our lifespans have hit the century mark, we noticed lung cancer sucks balls. So we invent vaping, a way to cut down on the carcinogens, while preserving the stimulant effect of nicotine. Somehow, some way, people are flabbergasted that teenagers are self medicating in the same way that they have been doing since time immemorial. So ban it away.

The sole function of legislation is the redistribution of rights, and since the anti-drug craze began we've been willingly surrendering our right to self-medicate. It's a real shame.

That’s so weird - to ban only flavored cigarettes..

Technically all vape juices are flavored, even the ones that use natural tobacco extracts.

What’s not healthy in that is the PG they use, which is almost the base of every vaping juice.

It still doesn’t make sense to make it illegal but still have cigarettes legal.

a reply to: Zelun

Some people are prone to cancer while others will smoke to the day they die with not too much problems. Perhaps they smoke moderately.

a reply to: nOraKat

It also is a major predictor for heart disease, which leads to a myriad of other problems, hypertension, circulatory problems, etc... Most studies available analyze tobacco usage, vaping is too new on the scene for a responsible sampling. I think the current furor is due to a bad batch, or a bad recipe for vape fluid, probably of the full spectrum variety as it is still illicit in the geography concerned.

What won't these liberals get...we know it's bad and we love it.

If people want to do bad things like smoke drink.
God bless em.

Ah but I forgot, when these people get sick liberals also bekive everyone should be taken care of.

Hopefully their ban on sugar will make them pay less for all those diabetics

I don't vape but I seriously doubt it's all that harmful and I think time will prove it. Most likely they're just looking for a path to slap a huge tax on it so they can demonize the people who do it and milk the hell out of them for tax revenue without much protest from the general public.

Should know by now that the government operates exactly the same way as any other monopoly does. It's all about power, control and money with them. If they can find a way to make the numbers work, vaping will be perfectly legal. Smoking real cigarettes is being phased out because the numbers don't work even with heavy fines (they call them taxes but they're really fines, just like all such "taxes"). The insurance rackets (and therefore the government) end up losing money they could have kept because of smokers so that has to stop.

I suspect that alcohol will eventually be on the chopping block as well. They just have to wait until that fruit is ripe for picking. Which shouldn't be too long the way things are going. People are getting dumber by the day and there's nothing they won't put up with if properly inflamed by some sad stories.

originally posted by: AndyFromMichigan
No question vaping is being heavily marketed to teens. It's how the tobacco industry plans to hook a new generation of addicts.

I don't think so. Part of the Tobacco Settlement was that the Industry would pay for commercials against smoking. I've seen the same type of commercials, sponsored by the same group, against vaping. More people are switching to vaping from cigarettes. The change in market share is reducing the money that the tobacco companies have to pay to the States. Several States have borrowed against these payments (Michigan) and are now in danger of missing payments.

It would be stupid of the tobacco companies to fund commercials against vaping if they were hoping hook people on it.

Can anyone provide a link to an ad that targets teens?

Vape contains: vegetable glycol, you can get it in Walmart, used for the skin. Propelyne glycol, found at tractor supply, to help horses poop I think. Nicotine, found online. Food grade flavoring, found in bake shops.

Flavored vape juice is easily made at home. Tons of recipes to choose from.

If flavored vape is for teens, why is tobacco flavor the lowest selling flavor in smoke shops? Adults love the flavors!

a reply to: stormson

We love the flavors because there's no law that says we can't still love the sweet flavors. I've been mixing my own diy liquids for a while now, and so far, I've mainly been doing candy based flavors, but most recently moved on to very sweet fruit flavors.

All the talk about formaldehyde and other chemicals being produced by vapes is pretty much garbage. You can't take a device that's only designed to be run at 8-10 watts at the max, and pump 80 watts through it and call it an objective test, yet that's what these so called studies were doing. It would be no different than hooking up a Juul pod to a car battery, and claiming that were vaping burning wicking material. That's not the way any of this works. But hey, anything to push an agenda, right? We all know that with the amount of people using vapes to quit smoking, big tobacco is taking a hit, which means they have less money allocated to buying off politicians to keep their products on the shelves.

And while we know that taking in anything that isn't just air isn't 100% safe, there's plenty of studies out of Europe showing vaping to be 95% safer than traditional cigarettes. I may have struggled to get off the cigarettes for a long time, but vaping made it a lot easier for me, and with less harm than smoking. Another thing to consider, there's places in Europe where they are selling vapes in hospitals to get people off cigarettes. Of course, they probably don't have the amount of lobbying that we do, so their studies may be a little less biased.

a reply to: deadlysyn

i concur.

also, just using a little anecdotal, and some medical training, reasoning, i think vaping is safer. the most dangerous part of smoking is the tar. its not water soluble and very sticky. this tar is where the carcinogens are mostly found. it just stays on the lung tissue. vape is water soluble, so the natural water and fluid in the lungs is able to expel it. this vastly cuts down the time that any carcinogens are in contact with tissue.

nicotine by itself, which is what most people want due its addictive nature, is just a stimulant and vasoconstrictor. it also helps you poop.

the true crux of the problem is the nicotine addiction.

IMO, the law won't stand, it'll get sued into oblivion, and shops are already lawyering up to do so. I don't know too many folks on either side of the political fence who think this is a bright idea. Everyone is convinced there's a tobacco lobby conspiracy going on to give the monopoly back to the cig companies by way of wiping the competition out of existance here in MI. In that sense, it'd be well worth looking into the background of every single person involved in drafting this POS law. I bet folks are right, too.

As far as flavored vape juice goes, eh. Marketing schmarketing. I tried a few flavors like coffee, but vastly prefer menthol and it better be as close to a cold breath of winter air as I can get on the inhale (in fact, I used to order mine from EC Blend and custom made my menthol -- as extremely icy cold as possible)
If it wasn't for vaping, I'd still be sucking down cigarettes, and I was a 2 pack a day smoker. I quit the cigs easily with vaping, I don't even like the odor anymore. I used to like it, post-quitting, but now it makes me gag just smelling tobacco (unless it's a good cigar, those smell different)
Then I tapered off the vaping and haven't picked it up since. Seriously, # the people who don't get it and never will, those types are the ignorant fools, not us. If you can't see the nation-wide tobacco monopoly smear fight for what it is, your head is too far up your hind end.

a reply to: Zelun

Well habitual nicotine use in general is bad for a bunch of things

a reply to: nOraKat

Habitual *anything* use is bad for a bunch of things. Ibuprofen causes liver damage. Caffeine exacerbates hypertension. Hell, drinking too much water will kill you. It's called water toxemia. You will never hear me say that anything in excess leads to a positive outcome. Your point is well taken, but is also unnecessary. Nobody is saying nicotine is good for you. What I am saying is it's not as bad as it's made out to be. Nor is (the horror!) coc aine, nor that sweet, sweet cheeba. All things in moderation, my friend.