Man in a California goes on 2 hour stabbing spree killing 4 people

originally posted by: Assassin82

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: Assassin82

I believe we do need to create a safer system of gun ownership in this country. They are a tool that can be used for mass destruction. But they aren’t the cause for it. Mental health, not video games, is the biggest culprit in America’s violent aggression inside our borders.

Serious question here.
What sort of magic tool do you employ to know when a perfectly sane person may crack under pressure and lose his marbles?
It even happens to cops. Sometimes they take innocents with them when they crack.
They actually have a higher suicide rate than the general population. Should we start with them and take their guns away?

Well, I think we start with thorough background checks. If you’ve committed a violent crime, such as domestic abuse for example, sorry, you don’t get to own a weapon. We can introduce a “get out of gun jail” program where people can do voluntary community service, attend a minimum amount of private therapy sessions, and prove to the public that they are above violent behavior. But I would say no guns until that program is completed.

Anything beyond that is difficult because it starts to violate the privacy of non-violent, law abiding gun owners. Could we put a small gps tracker in certain types of guns? I mean people willingly drive around with gps trackers in their pockets every day. So I don’t see why not. But most fans of the 2nd amendment don’t want that, and I don’t blame them.

Regardless of all that, this criminal in California would have bypassed it all with his machete. He was full of anger, so it’ll be interesting to see where the anger within him came from. (Maybe white oppression? Who knows).

Do you have any idea of how many people were killed by knives in London alone this year?

Any you think gun control is the answer to these lunatic murders? No guns.... ok ....In Europe they use knives and acid. So do we ban knives? Everyone turn in your steak knives, the government is issuing sporks...(spoon and fork combined)

originally posted by: JIMC5499

originally posted by: Assassin82

Well, I think we start with thorough background checks. If you’ve committed a violent crime, such as domestic abuse for example, sorry, you don’t get to own a weapon. We can introduce a “get out of gun jail” program where people can do voluntary community service, attend a minimum amount of private therapy sessions, and prove to the public that they are above violent behavior. But I would say no guns until that program is completed.

Wrong answer.
Lets start with background checks. Do you remember the guy who ran over the motorcyclists in New Hampshire a few weeks ago? Massachusetts should have revoked his license but the information wasn't processed. How about the VA? Do you really want to trust Government Union employees to do their job correctly? A typo, a misspelled name or any one of a thousand errors and all of the sudden your right to own a gun is revoked.

How about the joke that is "domestic violence"? The first thing that a divorce attorney tells a woman seeking a divorce is to obtain a protection from abuse order. Claim that she is afraid of her husband. A friend of mine WAS a police officer. He got divorced and his ex didn't like the settlement so she got a different lawyer and tried to have it changed. She claimed that he showed up at her house with a gun and threatened her. It was proven that at the time she said that he was there, he was testifying in Court. It didn't matter. His certification to be a police officer was revoked and he still can't own a gun. The District Attorney refused to prosecute her for perjury because it would send a BAD message to women and prevent them from coming forward about abuse. I know there is an issue with domestic violence. I don't mean to belittle it. The problem is that it has become a huge weapon in the "war on men". I used to work as an armed guard at a place where they hid victims of domestic violence that had an actual threat against them. You would be surprised how many of them were men with their children hiding from their wife or ex-wife.

Your "get out of gun jail" bit is a flop as well. First. What does "community service" have to do with it? "Private therapy sessions" are a joke. What is the criteria for passing the therapy? Who determines it? When you have psychologists claiming that your wanting to own a gun is a mental defect, how do you determine when somebody is cured?

The main problem here is that you are never going to appease the anti-gun crowd. This has nothing to do with violence. This is all about power. That's it plain and simple.
One last thing. Gun laws only effect the people that you don't have to worry about in the first place.

And what’s your solution to all this? How do we stop people from shooting up walmarts and going on machete stabbing sprees?

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Assassin82

2 hours 4 people dead with a knife.
32 seconds 9 people dead with a gun.

No matter how bad you are at math you have to see the big difference, right?

Yes, I do. Both situations were conducted by troubled minds.

a reply to: joemoe

There's a whole movement that says that isn't true. The problem is that it is hard to document it. I was leaving work one night, taking two of our customer reps back to their hotel. I was parked in a parking garage and there were a few guys sitting on the hood of a car, passing a bottle around. They got up and started towards us. Between the three of us we probably had about $20,000 in computers and electronics. I moved my jacket aside showing my pistol in it's holster and they turned around and walked off. Would something have happened if I wasn't armed? I don't know. The two women with me never even noticed. How many times does something like that happen? There's no way to determine it.

a reply to: Assassin82

Really? You knew both and had access to their thought process?

a reply to: JIMC5499

Yes, hard to determined and vastly underreported. That's why the CDC guesstimate is about 500k - 3M per year extrapolating reported data. National crime and victimization survey has the lowest estimate of about 300k a year. Multiple research has gone into this, and every time Defensive Gun Use outpace Gun Homicides by a wide margin. The MSM and the Left, of course, will downplay this.

originally posted by: Assassin82
Would you please go back to the entire post and reread it. The whole point I’m making is that we have got to start somewhere. I guess I have to identify as an advocate FOR the 2nd amendment but I do not condone the use of guns in the unnecessary murder of others. I’m at least trying to help come up with solutions...I don’t see that effort coming from yourself or others. Instead you defensively critique anyone who challenges any and all aspects of gun ownership.

Want my honest opinion?? I don't believe any solution will work. Bad people have existed throughout human history and have done anything and everything in their power to do bad things. There is no solution to the human condition, so you must excuse me if I don't agree that going down the eventual route of removing peoples rights is a fair conclusion to a problem that has no answer.

Even people who want guns to be gone know it's not a solution, their goal is just to make this human evil a little less. Unfortunately that won't work, either, because bad people always find a way. All these rules will do is make it harder for good people to defend themselves. Imagine the wild west if good people weren't allowed to defend themselves.

Even if we lived in a world where nobody had to worry about money, food, housing, everyone was given everything they need to live comfortably, someone out there would still do something bad. Thieves steal, rapists rape, murderers murder, and the more people we have on this planet the greater chances of it happening more.

So, yeah, I critique anyone who's idea to solve a problem is removing ones rights, especially when I've seen how the governing powers that would regulate these rules can be easily manipulated. All it will do is create a cluster-bomb of bull# for people who follow the law, it won't affect anyone who disobeys it.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Assassin82

2 hours 4 people dead with a knife.
32 seconds 9 people dead with a gun.

No matter how bad you are at math you have to see the big difference, right?

actually, no. regardless of any other noise, innocent people died because someone did something bad.

I may be a drooling retard, but to me, asking why someone decided to do something bad is more important than getting angry at the tool he used to do something bad with.

disagree? explain.

Been hearing skuttle butt about these 5g towers I am starting to wonder are these tradegies going to be the new norm?

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Assassin82

2 hours 4 people dead with a knife.
32 seconds 9 people dead with a gun.

No matter how bad you are at math you have to see the big difference, right?

en.m.wikipedia.org...

fire wins every time

originally posted by: Assassin82
And what’s your solution to all this? How do we stop people from shooting up walmarts and going on machete stabbing sprees?

Enforce the laws we have. Gun deaths are actually down. It is the Liberal Socialists pushing their agenda that's the problem.

www.washingtonpost.com... wk_F4N3p-umZmmFXvGgOT1psxCJK9noP0MHw3sTWc21e_o&noredirect=on

a reply to: Assassin82

And people wonder why I drink more, shop online, and don't like going out to bars a lot anymore.. gotta get my bottled water somewhere right?

Scary situation here, sure you could disarm a knife a little bit easier then a gun shot but I should we ban knives too? I have many butter knives, steak knives, paring knives.. if not all of them could do a lot of damage.. sorry for ranting bit.

Why didn't this break worldwide like the El Paso and Dayton shootings?

I had to actually search this out after finding out here on ATS and another online forum...

a reply to: Peeple

So you're presuming that someone who goes out and kills others, regardless of the method, has a stable mind? Interesting.

a reply to: Assassin82

Looks like we’re going to have to ban assault knives now.

a reply to: network dude

What do you want to do? Prohibit thinking? Lobotomies or implants to police people from the inside?
It's an easy solution to take away tools, a world where you took away independent thinking is unbearable to imagine.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Assassin82

2 hours 4 people dead with a knife.
32 seconds 9 people dead with a gun.

No matter how bad you are at math you have to see the big difference, right?

They don't want to see it, it is what it is, not going to change anybodies mind.

originally posted by: Necrobile

originally posted by: Assassin82
Would you please go back to the entire post and reread it. The whole point I’m making is that we have got to start somewhere. I guess I have to identify as an advocate FOR the 2nd amendment but I do not condone the use of guns in the unnecessary murder of others. I’m at least trying to help come up with solutions...I don’t see that effort coming from yourself or others. Instead you defensively critique anyone who challenges any and all aspects of gun ownership.

Want my honest opinion?? I don't believe any solution will work. Bad people have existed throughout human history and have done anything and everything in their power to do bad things. There is no solution to the human condition, so you must excuse me if I don't agree that going down the eventual route of removing peoples rights is a fair conclusion to a problem that has no answer.

Even people who want guns to be gone know it's not a solution, their goal is just to make this human evil a little less. Unfortunately that won't work, either, because bad people always find a way. All these rules will do is make it harder for good people to defend themselves. Imagine the wild west if good people weren't allowed to defend themselves.

Even if we lived in a world where nobody had to worry about money, food, housing, everyone was given everything they need to live comfortably, someone out there would still do something bad. Thieves steal, rapists rape, murderers murder, and the more people we have on this planet the greater chances of it happening more.

So, yeah, I critique anyone who's idea to solve a problem is removing ones rights, especially when I've seen how the governing powers that would regulate these rules can be easily manipulated. All it will do is create a cluster-bomb of bull# for people who follow the law, it won't affect anyone who disobeys it.

I think this is the most accurate post out of the hundreds posted on this subject since the Gilroy Garlic Festival shooting.

The only thing that I can personally add to your perfect post is that something may be happening to this generation of young men. That might be something we can attempt to evaluate.

The Hispanic 33-yr. old male that stabbed these 4 other Hispanics seems to be something separate from young 20-somethings that decide to go on a mass murder rampage calmly and methodically.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: network dude

What do you want to do? Prohibit thinking? Lobotomies or implants to police people from the inside?
It's an easy solution to take away tools, a world where you took away independent thinking is unbearable to imagine.

As I said, and you ignored, I think we need to ask WHY the person wanted to kill others. I think that should be the first thing we do, and not an afterthought.

a reply to: Assassin82

How can you call this guy a lunatic when he robbed a bakery. Its obvious the Cartels/gang related. The first part of the news seems like his targets might be related. What happens when the country is full of greedy people/bullies.