NBC says mental illness isnt a major factor for gun violence

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Not only did President Trump blame gun violence and mass shootings on the mentally ill, who are probably also gamers, he suggested that people who have been "red flagged" be locked up against their will.

originally posted by: UpIsNowDown

originally posted by: AgarthaSeed
Not surprised by this media spin. Its absolutely irresponsible and disgusting.

Mental illness isn't a major risk factor for gun violence, but here's what is



Soooooo, if mental illness isn't a major factor, then what is?

Having access to a gun is more of a risk factor for violence than being diagnosed with a mental illness, research shows.

Of course! ::forehead slap::
The guns!!

Mind you, this is under the "health" heading on NBC News. They elaborate:

Experts and lawmakers who are once again trying to make sense of what drives gun violence in the United States, however, disagree about what role, if any, mental illness plays.

Notice "IF ANY".

Could. Not. Be. More. Blatant.

I take it you believe mental illnes is a uniqely American problem and mental illness can not travel to other countires ::forehead slap::

It cant be the guns, no its everything else but the guns ::forehead slap::

We're the only nation with a CIA that grooms & manipulates specific mentally ill individuals to perform such shootings. Yeah I said it.

::ass slap::

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Stop watching fake news. When a question is asked and you can't answer it because your mind would crack if you did it's a good sign you should change positions.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

What question? This one?

So are you claiming the gun pulls it's own trigger? And why did you leave hatred out?

Oh wow! Such a gottcha question, you clever wordsmith, you!

"Gunz don't kill people. People kill people". Yah! Go NRA! So profound!
"Innocent little gunz never did anything wrong!" LOL
(PS: I've never heard anyone claim that guns pull their own triggers.)

Why did Trump inextricably connect the two, mental illness and hate? People kill other people for lots of reasons other than hate. If you're going to do a mass shooting to stem off an invasion, that's patriotism, right?


Oh? You wanted a quote!

"We must reform our mental health laws to better identify mentally disturbed individuals who may commit acts of violence and make sure those people not only get treatment, but, when necessary, involuntary confinement,"

Looking at you ladies who want abortions!

it's a good sign you should change positions.

What position would that be?

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Not only did President Trump blame gun violence and mass shootings on the mentally ill, who are probably also gamers, he suggested that people who have been "red flagged" be locked up against their will.

Oh don't worry, the Constitution guarantees a full court hearing before being declared totally incompetent 😎

a reply to: network dude

Oh, We Canadians know...and I already knew that would come up.

I'll give you two guesses where the guns are coming from....?

Also, dont be afraid to weigh the numbers PER CAPITA. Still 3xtremely low numbers compared to ANY major U.S city...

Write another comment....

a reply to: AgarthaSeed

I'll be back later to respond to your twisted thought process...in detail. My girlfriend comes first.

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Good lord, cause yea people are so weak minded they cant resist the allure of walking into Walmart and shooting a bunch of people.

Nope sorry that's still a mental illness no matter how you slice it, anyone that thinks a mass shooting is a good ending has some serious mental issues.

You can run all the opinion pieces you want and guns are not the cause a problem in society coupled with a bad reaction to the chemicals that pervade everything we consume or use is still the most likely reason for the uptick in shootings.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

"Gunz don't kill people. People kill people". Yah! Go NRA! So profound!
"Innocent little gunz never did anything wrong!" LOL
(PS: I've never heard anyone claim that guns pull their own triggers.)

You insinuate it.

If the gun doesn't pull its own trigger, then there is no need to remove the guns because the guns are not the problem... the people who pull the trigger are the problem. Removing the guns just makes them work a little harder. Ever hear of something called a "bomb"? It's a device that can kill even more people than a gun in a shorter period of time, and once it goes off, there is no stopping it until it finishes exploding.

Now, here's the real kicker: I can walk into any convenience store in the country and, for under $25, buy the needed components to build a device that will leave a crater where the store used to stand. If I can do it, then the crazy guy can, too. They just don't because a gun is easier to get. One must study a little to make a bomb... of course, that's little deterrent for someone who wrote up a manifesto and then drove 600 miles to shoot up a Walmart. He surely wouldn't abandon his plans over an evening searching the Internet.

Ever heard of a thing called a "truck"? It's a rolling bomb that you can steer.

Ever hear of something called "fertilizer"? Look up the Alfred P. Murrah building in Oklahoma City. It does more than make plants grow better.

Need a safe space yet? Welcome to reality.

So every time you start talking about the only way to stop violence is to remove guns, you sound like "Guns pull their own triggers" to those of us who live in reality.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

You insinuate it.

No I didn't. Trump invoked the same when he said that "mental illness" and "hate" pulled the trigger. News flash! Mental illness and hate don't pull triggers either. People do. All kinds of people pull triggers.

There you go again, putting words in my mouth and projecting your bias onto me.

If the gun doesn't pull its own trigger, then there is no need to remove the guns because the guns are not the problem...

When did I ever advocate for the removal of guns, from anybody?

So, if guns are not the problem, and hate isn't the problem, and mental illness isn't the problem, who/what are we going to point our collective fingers at in blame?

Now, here's the real kicker: I can walk into any convenience store in the country and, for under $25, buy the needed components to build a device that will leave a crater where the store used to stand. If I can do it, then the crazy guy can, too.

More female murderers have been convicted of poisoning their victims than shooting them. Poison is also Putin's preferred method of murder.

So every time you start talking about the only way to stop violence is to remove guns, you sound like "Guns pull their own triggers" to those of us who live in reality.

There you go again, blaming me for your paranoia. The President is suggesting taking guns away from the mentally ill, not me. I have never advocated that the government take away anyone's guns. I have never suggested that guns are anthropomorphic, and pull their own triggers.

But, the government does take away guns and the government does, indeed, regulate guns and weaponry. So, when the president blames the mentally ill, with a dangerously wide brush for mass shootings, we all should speak out against that ignorance.

Some woman killed her children due to post partum depression. Should doctors report all cases of post partum depression to ATF for temporary suspension of their gun rights, until cleared by their doctor? No, of course not.

Some guy broke up with his girlfriend, dropped out of college and plays video games in his mom's basement. Should he be red flagged and denied the right to go hunting with his brothers and cousins? No, of course not.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Because when you combine hate and mental illness you get a deadly combo. Are you saying that is not true?

As someone that spent a month or more at a time in a psyche ward I can say most mentally ill people with psychosis are too far gone to plan out a killing spree. To do something like that takes a level of planning and organization. People with severe mental illness can barely tie their own shoes.

I have paranoid schizophrenia and bi polar. There is a difference between being insane and criminally insane. Most insane people aren't criminally insane.

In order to plea insanity in a court of law their attorney needs to prove that at the time they committed the crime they didn't know right from wrong.

Having been in a psyche ward drugged against my will I'd rather sit in prison then a psyche ward drugged to the max.

I don't know the psychology involved in these mass shootings but to stereo type all mentally ill people as dangerous is bs.

I'm on disability because of my illness and other then on the internet I don't tell people I have it. People freak out and automatically assume I'm dangerous. I lie and tell people I have multiple sclerosis.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

When you combine hate with anything, you may or may not get a deadly combination. Hate and religion. Hate and patriotism/nationalism. Hate and greed/jealousy/hunger/disease.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

So then you agree with Trump, but can't bring yourself to say it. Shocking.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

once you calm down and put away the victim card, maybe a discussion can be had.

If you listen to most regular people on this issue, it's well agreed that the causes for the mass shootings are complex and many. So no 1 quick fix will solve this.

I agree with you that the red flag laws are a slippery slope and there are ways to easily abuse them, or will be.

But as with bringing "video games" up in this discussion, (you get worse backlash than if you suggested removing all guns in totality) until we can have meaningful discussion without the knee jerk reactions and emotions driving opinions, this won't go anywhere and we will continue in this cyclical pattern.

Could our problems be that we wanted everything too fast and lost sight our raising our children correctly? Could the SSRI's and other drugs freely given to children to make them more manageable be a contributing factor? Do first person shooter games have anything at all to do with it, when coupled with the SSRI's?

There are many factors that might play into this, mental health, drugs, bad parenting, glorified guns, internet lies. Until we are ready to talk about all of them, even the uncomfortable ones, this won't change. For proof of that, see the last 40 mass shootings. All the same things happened, and we are still at square 1.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

In what way do you think that I'm agreeing with Trump? If you think that I agree that hatred is to blame, you're wrong. Lots of people hold hatred in their hearts, and yet they manage not to go on shooting sprees when things fall apart, like they lose their jobs, or get a divorce or have an argument with their neighbor.

You can't isolate "hate" and deny guns to people who express hatred their 2nd Amendment rights either.

So no. You're wrong. I don't agree with Trump on this issue, at all.

a reply to: wantsome

Having 10 years working at a locked inpatient psychiatric unit I can tell you that you are wrong. A past patient who had schizophrenia used to be brought in and talk to all new hires. He would talk about how he planned out the murder of his mother's boyfriend, and how his mind prevented him from seeing what was really going on.

One thing I will say is that a mentally ill person is more likely to be a victim of violent crime than to commit one.

50 million people experience mental illness every year. If 1 in every 100,000 with a mental illness commit a crime like this then that would be 50 occurrences every year. That would make it both extremely rare for a mentally ill person to do this, while meaning it would happen once a week.

a reply to: wantsome

I agree with you that not all mentally ill people are killers.

But sane normal people don't kill innocent folks just before killing themselves. Crazy people do that. It would be cool if we could figure out ways to identify those people and help them before they did something like that.

And it would be even better if we could treat mental illness without throwing drugs at it and hoping the patient either dies, or moves away.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

And again you lie about what Trump said. It's as if your world would be destroyed if you did not disagree with him, despite you just agreeing with him.

When you combine hate with anything, you may or may not get a deadly combination.

If you think that I agree that hatred is to blame, you're wrong.

So it can be a deadly combination, but hate has nothing to do with it. Makes total sense .. to no one.

a reply to: network dude

once you calm down and put away the victim card, maybe a discussion can be had.

I came into this thread, that trashed NBC for not agreeing with Trump when he blamed these shooting on the mentally ill, by asking the OP two questions:

Do you think that everyone who has been diagnosed with a mental illness should be banned from gun possession/ownership?

Do you think that mass gunmen like the El Paso shooter should be able to plea that his mental illness made him do it in court?

Because, those are the kinds of stereotypical ideas always lead to a slippery slope of whose rights we can violate and scapegoat for our societal woes and that reinforce ways to avoid serious discussions that address the roots of our problems.