Trying to resolve 9/11

a reply to: AyinSof


www.abovetopsecret.com...

Each time i try to start a thread, this comes up.

a reply to: AyinSof

You need a minimum number of reply posts to existing threads before you can create your own new thread.
Best read the T&C you agreed to

a reply to: Pilgrum

alright then

anyway,

since you're here.

Sept 11, 1990 - Bush speech start of nwo
Sept 11, 2001 - 1st
Sept 11, 2012 - 2nd
Sept 11, 2023 - Next?
Sept 11, 2034
Sept 11, 2045

www.quora.com...

a reply to: AyinSof
I took a dump on Sept. 11,2019. It looked sinister to me.

If you are trying to connect dates with events save your brain.
Something happened in history every day of the year.

Today in history:
Tylenol was recalled due to cyanide tampering.
Jewish passports were invalidated in Nazi Germany.
Forty Eight members of the Order of the Solar Tradition Cult committed suicide to escape the hypocrisies and oppression of this world.
And on and on.

Don't start on numerology. It's more of the same BS.

To help understand exactly just what caused the buildings to collapse I put together these film strips of the event side by side. I do understand there is not much we can really trust with some of this. Here is the event as the world has come to know it.

a reply to: kwakakev

So what mechanism should I find more credible than the below?

WTC 2.

The jet hit the tower. The jet took out outer and at least 7 core columns. The jet cut services such as firewater mains and electrical. The jet removed insulation. The WTC was know to have deficient fire insulation throughout the buildings. The jet impact resulted in fires throughout the tower.

The fires resulted in heating up the floor system and trusts stripped of fire insulation. The floor trusses still boxed in at the inner and out columns could not expand in length. That resulted in them bowing downward. When they cooled. They contracted. They pulled on the outer columns to cause bowing on the floors hit by the jet.



Once the bowing was great enough, the load of the upper 20 floors was no longer transmitted to the foundation. The load was “caught” in the bowing, and initiated collapse with no signs of explosions or balls of plasma by buckling the columns. No indication of nukes setting off.

The upper part of the building fell into the building below. The falling mass bent or sheared floor connections. The building surrounding WTC 2 were not damaged by “ejected” columns, but long segments of columns toppling outward,

Failure of Welded Floor Truss Connections from the Exterior Wall during Collapse of the World Trade Center Towers

app.aws.org...

Summary

Analysis of the connections supporting the composite floor system of the WTC towers showed that at and below the im- pact floors, the greater majority (above 90%) of the floor truss connections were either bent downward or completely re- moved from the exterior column. This was probably related to the overloading of the floors below the impact region after col- lapse initiation. Depending upon weld joint geometry, detachment of the main load-bearing seats was a result of either fracture in the heat affected zone of the base material (standoff plate detached from spandrel) or through the weld metal (seat angle detached from standoff plate). Failure in both cases was assumed to be a result of a shear mechanism as a result of overloading from floors above impacting those below. There did not appear to be a significant change in distribution of failure modes of the floor truss connections when comparing those connections inside vs. outside of the impact region or those ex- posed to pre-collapse fires and those that were not.

The falling mass stripped the floor systems from the vertical columns.



The columns fell last, and only toppled in the wake of the floor system once the vertical columns lost lateral support.

The columns were not cut. The towers did not fall through the path of greatest resistance as Richard Gage Claims.

In reply to NWOwned statement.

"Nothing left."

Not sure what your ranting about? The American Welding Society documented the recover and examination of thinner metal objects like floor connections.

The tower columns were numbered and identified by those numbers. What columns were not recovered?

Any building collapse makes lots of dust


Building collapse initiated by hydraulics to prove what was whiteness at WTC 2 was not driven by explosives. Just WTC 2 crushing itself and air being pushed out by the falling mass of the upper structure.

a reply to: kwakakev

If my account is soooo wrong, then outline what detailed conspiracy theory you believe is more credible. Then argument those points. What are the truth movement choices after 18 years?

Is it nukes?
Thermite ceiling tiles and paint?
Dustification?
Holograms with missiles and lasers?
Fizzle no flash bombs?
Plasma?


Did I miss any?

So which one are going going to champion?


Funny those that claim to be soooo smart in WTC mythology are never are willing to give a specific truth movement “theory” as being more credible? Why is that?????? Any thing to keep the lie of truth movement controlled demolition alive.

originally posted by: samkent
a reply to: AyinSof
I took a dump on Sept. 11,2019. It looked sinister to me.

If you are trying to connect dates with events save your brain.
Something happened in history every day of the year.

Today in history:
Tylenol was recalled due to cyanide tampering.
Jewish passports were invalidated in Nazi Germany.
Forty Eight members of the Order of the Solar Tradition Cult committed suicide to escape the hypocrisies and oppression of this world.
And on and on.

Don't start on numerology. It's more of the same BS.

still, see if you're alive by 2023 if something happens on sept 11 or not. If nothing happens, good, because more people are now aware of their shenanigans.


2012 – A total of 315 people are killed in two garment factory fires in Pakistan.
2012 – The U.S. embassy in Benghazi, Libya is attacked, resulting in four deaths.
2015 – A crane collapses onto the Masjid al-Haram mosque in Saudi Arabia, killing 111 people and injuring 394 others.

www.dallasnews.com...

1990 - 2001 - 2012 - 2023

Since people here are discussing 9/11 nonstop. Why not?

a reply to: AyinSof

You

still, see if you're alive by 2023 if something happens on sept 11

That doesn’t sound threatening, or a bit personally intrusive on the crazy side?

I personal hope you and samkent are both alive and well in 2023. And maybe someone will be out of the rabbit hole by then.

Where do the two below events kit?

10 Most Brutal Massacres in History

www.realclearhistory.com...

7. Chios massacre (March - July 1822). The Ottomans were bad people for a few centuries during the Middle Ages (RealClearHistory has more on the Ottomans here). In 1822, Istanbul massacred 52,000 Greeks on the island of Chios during the Greek War of Independence. The massacre was used deftly by imperial proponents in London, Paris, and Moscow, and further isolated the Ottomans from European diplomacy. As for the inhabitants of Chios, most were apathetic toward the rebellion until the massacre.

6. Massacre of the Rhineland Jews (1096). More of a series of massacres than a single, horrific occurrence, the massacres of the Rhineland Jews in 1096 are considered by some historians to be the first of many pogroms in Germany and France that eventually culminated in the Holocaust some 850 years later. The massacres began with the People’s Crusade of 1096, which was a Crusade considered to be unofficial because the Pope himself did not sanction it. It is estimated that 12,000 Jews died in the Massacre of the Rhineland Jews.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: kwakakev


In reply to NWOwned statement.

"Nothing left."

Not sure what your ranting about? The American Welding Society documented the recover and examination of thinner metal objects like floor connections.

The tower columns were numbered and identified by those numbers. What columns were not recovered?

Not ranting.

I believe I was discussing the curious lack of steel cased computer towers circa 2001. They weren't there but there should have been thousands. They admit to finding only one severely deformed steel filing cabinet, of which, wait for it, there should have been thousands. Are you noticing a pattern?



Steel computer cases and steel filing cabinets all gone. But steel columns all numbered and accounted for!

Ok.

Oh wait HERE THEY ALL ARE right next to the computer towers and filing cabinets!



The "Nothing left" are not my words they're Tom's. And they don't come across as a rant really but more like an accurate on scene witness description:



Here's another on scene witness description from yet another Tom:



You know, having worked with steel box encased computers for some 3 decades, I often ask myself:

"Where did the computer towers go?"

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: AyinSof

You

still, see if you're alive by 2023 if something happens on sept 11

That doesn’t sound threatening, or a bit personally intrusive on the crazy side?

I personal hope you and samkent are both alive and well in 2023. And maybe someone will be out of the rabbit hole by then.

Where do the two below events kit?

10 Most Brutal Massacres in History

www.realclearhistory.com...

7. Chios massacre (March - July 1822). The Ottomans were bad people for a few centuries during the Middle Ages (RealClearHistory has more on the Ottomans here). In 1822, Istanbul massacred 52,000 Greeks on the island of Chios during the Greek War of Independence. The massacre was used deftly by imperial proponents in London, Paris, and Moscow, and further isolated the Ottomans from European diplomacy. As for the inhabitants of Chios, most were apathetic toward the rebellion until the massacre.

6. Massacre of the Rhineland Jews (1096). More of a series of massacres than a single, horrific occurrence, the massacres of the Rhineland Jews in 1096 are considered by some historians to be the first of many pogroms in Germany and France that eventually culminated in the Holocaust some 850 years later. The massacres began with the People’s Crusade of 1096, which was a Crusade considered to be unofficial because the Pope himself did not sanction it. It is estimated that 12,000 Jews died in the Massacre of the Rhineland Jews.

Where do the two below events kit?
No idea

originally posted by: NWOwned


Anyway, something to think about.

I appreciate your post. It makes one think, Hopefully open a mind to think in a different direction.

I will never forget the day, or my age. I recorded much of the news that day of course the news The only thing that was on. I caught the 2nd tower going down on Live TV.

Maybe it was the way the Reporter was screened over the footage that was live, maybe it was just my inability to grasp the situation. However I will never forget looking and examining the footage as it was playing. It looked to me like cheesy CGI. I was completely convinced that my neighbors had me tune into a TV show, it just did not appear real to me. As much as I have looked back on that day and replayed That footage it still does not look right to me.

It is obvious the towers are on the ground and somewhat obvious the planes hit the towers. However something was amiss that day. I will probably never know the answer to to what happened that day.

Perhaps that Is all in my mind perhaps it is not. I'm a very fact a based logical person. I'm not one to Waste time on silly pursuits. At the very least I know for a fact that somewhere someone abandoned their duty to this country and that is un forgivable.

So I appreciate your different way of thinking, and your fresh look. I also appreciate and look forward to any thoughts you have about what happened to the towers and anything else that happened that day. Is nice to see somebody fresh in the forums.

originally posted by: Lykan

originally posted by: NWOwned


Anyway, something to think about.

I appreciate your post. It makes one think, Hopefully open a mind to think in a different direction.

I will never forget the day, or my age. I recorded much of the news that day of course the news The only thing that was on. I caught the 2nd tower going down on Live TV.

Maybe it was the way the Reporter was screened over the footage that was live, maybe it was just my inability to grasp the situation. However I will never forget looking and examining the footage as it was playing. It looked to me like cheesy CGI. I was completely convinced that my neighbors had me tune into a TV show, it just did not appear real to me. As much as I have looked back on that day and replayed That footage it still does not look right to me.

It is obvious the towers are on the ground and somewhat obvious the planes hit the towers. However something was amiss that day. I will probably never know the answer to to what happened that day.

Perhaps that Is all in my mind perhaps it is not. I'm a very fact a based logical person. I'm not one to Waste time on silly pursuits. At the very least I know for a fact that somewhere someone abandoned their duty to this country and that is un forgivable.

So I appreciate your different way of thinking, and your fresh look. I also appreciate and look forward to any thoughts you have about what happened to the towers and anything else that happened that day. Is nice to see somebody fresh in the forums.

I don't mean to alarm you. These NWO events happen regularly and will continue to happen.

a reply to: neutronflux

Is it nukes?

No. Impossible to hide the radioactive fallout.

Thermite ceiling tiles and paint?

Close. Evidence for thermite cutter charges is winning. Evidence in the air samples at the time. Thermite chips and iron spheres found in dust samples. Clean cuts from support beams recovered. Heat source for 3 month fire. The new owners of WTC had about 3-6 months to prepare the building.

Dustification?

Close. Pyroclastic Cloud is a better definition. This police car shows evidence of an intense heat source within the cloud. The pyroclastic cloud also fits with the thermite cutter charges.

Holograms?

No. Error from image compression was main conclusion.

Missiles and lasers?

Close. Whatever hit the Pentagon was more missile like than plane like. Got nothing on any lasers.

Fizzle no flash bombs?

Close. There is evidence of early explosions. With foreknowledge of the event, looting is a motive. Likely conventional explosives used here to breach doors and walls. Evidence of this got lost in the collapse.

It is a possibility that other unknown demolition equipment was used. With government approval for this operation, available technology is unknown.

Plasma?

Close. Plasma is a high energy state of matter. Dustification is a term getting used to describe steel turning to dust. I prefer the term evaporation. Thermite does help account for the high heat source.

a reply to: kwakakev

You

Evidence for thermite cutter charges is winning.

There is zero evidence of thermite.
Why do you post items as if they never been debunked when they have been debunked resoundingly and repeatedly? Why? Are you that far down the rabbit hole to ignore you have been debunked in this very thread?
And you contradict yourself in this thread?


You

Evidence in the air samples at the time.

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: kwakakev
a reply to: neutronflux

You hang in too mate. I am not sure how to get you out just yet. People are trying.

What? You that will not acknowledge that thermite at the WTC is sham? You who will not acknowledge that Richard Gage is a charlatan.

Let me remind you have no discernment for what is fraudulent and what is not.....

Your points were debunked one by one....

Gage lied in stating the towers fell through the path of greatest resistance.



Let’s revisit the “strong” argument for thermite

You.

I do get it. I so wish the official story was right, I really do.

It’s not about the official narrative. You present a intellectually false argument.

It’s not about any preconceived idea. It’s about having an open mind. About a questing attitude about everything.

Let’s take the thermite study.

Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe

benthamopen.com...

If you actually read through it, anyone with half an open mind sees it crap. It has nothing to do about the official narrative.

Let’s start with the most basic properties of thermite. Thermite burns in an inert atmosphere. That would be the simplest go / no go test. Take some of the sample and burn it in an inert atmosphere to see if it supports a thermite reaction. Is that part of the study. Nope. The simplest of tests, and it’s not part of the study. That is strange.

The thermite reaction is:
Fe2O3 + 2 Al → 2 Fe + Al2O3

Why, surely Jones tested specifically to ensure his dust had AL2 in it, pure elemental aluminum free to drive a thermite reaction. Nope. AL2 was never verified by analysis, it was assumed to be present. That is strange also.

Thus, while some of the aluminum may be oxidized, there is insufficient oxygen present to ac- count for all of the aluminum; some of the aluminum must therefore exist in elemental form in the red material.

To assume something is present when you should test to verify it’s present is a glaring example of junk science.

But don’t take my word for it...

post 8 by Oystein

www.internationalskeptics.com...

They claim to have found elemental Aluminium, one key ingredient to thermite, in a fifth chip. However, this fifth chip is of a different material than the four others, as is proven by their own data presented in figures 6 and 14. They did NOT dind free aluminium in any of the material that they igited and claimed to be or contain thermite

Progress Report on the Analysis of Red/Gray Chips in WTC Dust

aneta.org...

Conclusions
The red/gray chips found in the WTC dust at four sites in New York City are consistent with a carbon steel coated with an epoxy resin that contains primarily iron oxide and kaolin clay pigments.
There is no evidence of individual elemental aluminum particles of any size in the red/gray chips, therefore the red layer of the red/gray chips is not thermite or nano- thermite.

Then you have the samples from Jones tests were open to contamination and not stored for archiving.

Then one would wonder if the paper was peer reviewed.... A bit of research, and you will find then peer review was fraudulent. People consulted during the writing of the paper were used as peer reviewers. The paper bypassed the referee to be published, then the paper was published in a known pay to play publication.

Steven E. Jones
en.m.wikipedia.org...

In April 2009, Jones, along with Niels H. Harrit and 7 other authors published a paper in The Open Chemical Physics Journal, titled, 'Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe'.[47] The editor of the journal, Professor Marie-Paule Pileni, an expert in explosives and nano-technology,[48][49] resigned. She received an e-mail from the Danish science journal Videnskab asking for her professional assessment of the article's content.[50][51] According to Pileni, the article was published without her authorization. Subsequently, numerous concerns arose regarding the reliability of the publisher, Bentham Science Publishers. This included the publishing an allegedly peer reviewed article generated by SCIgen [52] (although this program has also successfully submitted papers to IEEE and Springer [53]), the resignation of multiple people at the administrative level,[54][55] and soliciting article submissions from researchers in unrelated fields through spam.[56] With regard to the peer review process of the research conducted by Jones in The Open Chemical Physics Journal, David Griscom identified himself as one of the reviewers.[57] The paper which Jones co-authored referenced Griscom, and multiple scientists studying 9/11, in the acknowledgements for "elucidating discussions and encouragements".[19] Almost four years prior to identifying himself as a reviewer and the welcome he received from Jones for speaking out boldly,[58] Griscom published a letter in defense of evidence-based 9/11 studies;[59] of which Jones was an editor.[60]

Then you do more research. And you find out Jones never completed the discovery process for his paper. The samples and results were never verified by a independent source.

If this was NIST, people would be screaming. But the unethical ways of the truth movement are ignored.....

I have kept an open mind. I found the thermite paper is junk science, fraudulent, and never verified.

For you to criticize like I don’t have an open mind when I have done my due diligence is crap, and intellectually dishonest.

My research shows there is no credible evidence of thermite in the WTC dust. NONE!

Because you have a biased mind you made the statement of :

The case for thermite is strong and does explain many of the abnormalities found.

Which means what?
“The case for thermite is strong”????

What case. You cite no sources. You mean the one thermite paper? “Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe”. Fraudulently peer reviewed with results no one can confirm. Is that the strong case. Good Gosh!

What “abnormalities found”????
The single nugget of strange compounds found in the toxins soup of burnt plastics, office equipment, batteries, office furniture, carpet, ceiling titles, vinyl flooring, computers that was the WTC pile.

Because I have a questioning attitude, I see the thermite research for the junk pseudoscience it is!

a reply to: kwakakev

You

Clean cuts from support beams recovered.

Really? Care to cite a source?

I remember this argument?

originally posted by: Pilgrum
a reply to: kwakakev

That's not evidence of cutting (the pile of steel pieces all about the same length). That's how it was delivered to construct the buildings (IE in convenient truck-sized pieces). It was lifted into position where it was welded/bolted together and those joints failed during the collapse rather than the steel sections themselves. There's a reasonable case there for claims of sub-standard construction but we never hear anything along those lines for some reason.

Here's a couple of those 'sticks' which were core column sections and the weld that failed is visible. The column sections are remarkably unscathed otherwise.

a reply to: kwakakev

You

Heat source for 3 month fire.

Which has to do with thermite how?

originally posted by: mrthumpy

originally posted by: kwakakev
a reply to: neutronflux

With the last of the fires in the clean taking up to 3 months to finally get under control, it is one indications that thermite was used.

You do spout some utter rubbish. Where did you get the idea that something that BURNS VERY QUICKLY would still be burning 3 months later?

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever - not that you care about that

And

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: kwakakev
a reply to: neutronflux

With the last of the fires in the clean taking up to 3 months to finally get under control, it is one indications that thermite was used. Finding thermite chips in the dust it is also a strong indication thermite was used. There are other indicators like the pyroclastic cloud and the effects this had going down the streets, instantly oxidizing cars that came in contact with this intense energy source. Then there is also the charred remains of the people caught in the pyroclastic cloud, frozen in time, it hit some of them real quick.

You come across as some one obviously up to speed on a lot of the controversy around 9/11. How do you comprehend the twin tower buildings coming down?

Thermite supports its own reaction by supplying an oxidizer. It wouldn’t burn for three months. It would burn soon as it was ignited.

Please show evidence the fires at the WTC burned over 3000 degrees Fahrenheit for three months.

They did not find thermite chips in any study. It’s a con. The studies never completed the discovery process. They assumed there was Al2 in the samples because aluminum oxide was present. It was never proven Al2 was present in the samples to support a thermite reaction. The samples were never released to an independent evaluation. Others that tried to verify the presence of thermite could not.

The truth movement itself said the fires at the WTC were never hotter than what? 1200 degrees Fahrenheit. Thermite burns at 3000 Fahrenheit.

There is no indication the steel at the WTC was exposed to the temperatures at which thermite burns.

I can post video of WTC columns bowing leading to buckling.

Post video of a WTC column being visibly being cut.

I can post pictures of vertical columns of the towers still standing after the 12 second collapse of the floor systems. The twin towers did not collapse through the path of greatest resistance.



And

originally posted by: cardinalfan0596
a reply to: kwakakev

If you think that a thermite fueled fire lasted for three months, then please produce the video of the massive number of dump trucks that would have been needed every day of that three months to dump thermite into the pile to keep the fire burning.

I don't understand why there hasn't been a 9/11 type sitch in Moscow, Beijing or Shanghai

Lucifer approved.

a reply to: kwakakev

You

Close. Pyroclastic Cloud is a better definition. This police car shows evidence of an intense heat source within the cloud. The pyroclastic cloud also fits with the thermite cutter charges.

Why? And there is no evidence of a pyroclastic cloud.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: kwakakev

Nice try. Didn’t the cloud engulf people that survived?

debunked-9-11-wtc-ae911s-pyroclastic-flow-collapse-dust-clouds.t1823/


www.metabunk.org...

The incredible and impossible magnitude of this calculate temperature is perhaps easy to miss at first. A rise from 300 to 1020? But that's in Kelvin. It's actually a rise from 27°C/80°F to 747°C/1,376°F.

This claim can be debunked quite simply by the observation that no such temperatures were observed in the cloud of dust. We've all see videos and photos of the cloud moving down the street, engulfing people and cars, and we've seen the people afterwards covered in dust. 1,300°F is very hot, hot enough to melt aluminum. Any human caught in a cloud of such superheated gas would instantly suffer third degree burns and die. But they didn't.

So, why is there still paint on the back of the car and plastic that held its shape on top if it was engulfed in a 1300 F pyroclastic cloud?

The front end of the car caught on fire from burning debris.


And

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: kwakakev
a reply to: cardinalfan0596

Last time I posted a photo of a dead person there where some complaints. I have already sent a private message to you with a link where you can find the photo. If anyone else is interested let me know and I can pass on the link.

One photo I am more freely able to share that shows an interesting dynamic of the pyroclastic cloud

If the car was hit with a pyroclastic dust cloud, wouldn’t there be actual dust on the car?

And

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: kwakakev
a reply to: neutronflux

If the car was hit with a pyroclastic dust cloud, wouldn’t there be actual dust on the car?

You can see from the surroundings that some clean up had already taken place, a lot of the dust on the road and surroundings was also cleaned up. It is also quite likely that the police car was not in that exact location at the time and quite possible just moved to the side of the road until the tow trucks got around to it.

Here is another photo of how the cars responded to the events.

Of course not everyone caught in the dust cloud that day got burnt, but for those closer to ground zero where all the heat and intensity was at its strongest. Not so lucky.

Another swing and a miss by you.
You just debunked pyroclastic dust cloud again. There are still cars with their paint intact, still have there plastic taillights unmelted, and there is a convertible that still has its canvas top. Your still confirming there cars caught fire by contact from flaming debris, not a 1300 degree Fahrenheit cloud.

a reply to: kwakakev

Oh back to this for a sec

Clean cuts from support beams recovered.

This is what it looks like when a 1000 pounds of thermite tries to cut through the roof of a four thousand pound SUV

1/2 ton of thermite VS SUV mythbusters
www.dailymotion.com...

1000 pounds of thermite laying on the roof of a car couldn’t cut sheet metal cleanly

Again. The truth movement itself claims the fires were no hotter than normal office fires. Thermite burns at 4000 degrees Fahrenheit. My favorite truth movement contradictIon.

And never mind the mythbusters thermite reaction was strong enough that it created enough UV light that a person would need to wear a welding helmet to protect their eyes from damage.