Trying to resolve 9/11

originally posted by: DevotedResearcher
Which some people are incapable of using their time and energy to tackle, because they can't, for whatever reason.

Maybe some circumstantial evidence would be helpful.

Regarding a document published before 9/11, a screenshot from an interview of researcher extraordinaire Mel K:

www.banned.video...

originally posted by: tacoman101
a reply to: WhatItIs

How many times are you gona say this? I've posted a video that shows MOLTEN STEEL BEING ejected from this spot.

How do you know it’s steel. It’s a large building fire. It’s going to be a collection of stuff.

More like the arching and sparking from the battery room/electrical room?

Did loose change acknowledge the battery room / electrical room in that area?

How did the building get power for the large AC and heating units. Power for the elevators?

m.youtube.com...

Transformers do catch on fire, spark, make what appears to be Liquid Metal. And explode.

This is a smallish transformer at work. It’s oil filled and steps down 4160 volts AC



Think if it caught on fire, arched out, and exploded.

What makes more sense. Fire in an electrical room. Or transformer.

Or somehow wiring and hardware for a CD system surviving jet impacts and fires?

With arching and sparking from an isolated spot which is expected in a large building fire having to do with what concerning controlled demolition? With no evidence there was cutting on the actual perimeter columns at the site of WTC 2 collapse initiation.

Point to where the columns were cut? At the point of collapse initiation. The outer columns were the outer wall.

originally posted by: neutronflux

www.metabunk.org/the-pre-collapse-inward-bowing-of-wtc2.t4760/
www.metabunk.org...

Any proof core cut by thermite? I don’t see any Liquid Metal cuts. Supposedly there was thermite in the dust? No residual sparking?

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

IT was weakened with nano thermite.

Do you understand the argument for “nano thermite”?

World Trade Center was destroyed in a controlled demolition, such as eyewitness accounts of explosions and the “discovery” of nano-thermite (an explosive compound) in the debris.

www.adl.org...

Yet no evidence of explosions at collapse initiation.


That means the nano thermite would be used as an “explosive” to cut by shockwave through the columns. Not slowly burn. That means you’re back at no proof of explosions cutting column by column, floor by floor.

And why would nano thermite that burns fast enough to be an explosive slowly make sparks for a long period.

The sparks are more likely something in the battery/electrical room burning, and the structure shifting spilling out molten crap from the fire.

Why would molten steel be ejecting from this spot if it was only caused by pressure?

.

Battery room fire with the arcing, sparking, and melting of transformers and copper bus bars and wiring. Then spilling out as the building shifts.

If under pressure it would be spraying in all directions.

You keep asking me to post evidence of whats in a video.. WATCH THE DAMN VIDEO "it is the evidence"

The pictures are evidence which show no evidence of collapse initiation from the video of collapse initiation.

Don’t get mad at me because you can’t argue a coherent argument. You, “Its nano thermite that burns fast enough to be an explosive slowly burning through one isolated spot somehow cutting all the visible outer columns bowing with no visible effects of charges setting off, and some how leaving the core intact as the floor system fails.”

And somehow the CD system survived the jet crashes and fires to a actuate.

and you will see exactly what im talking about..

Your the one that can’t make up their mind. Controlled demolition. No something slowly burning through. No nano thermite designed to be an explosive.

IT literally talks about EVERYTHING you've asked for. But its not enough for you. Nothing aside from a time machine to back and collect evidence would be enough for you.

No. It takes a one sided view for a biased audience. Completely ignores expected complications during a large building fire like electrical room / gear fires. Exploding Ac and refrigeration units. Exploding transformer and batteries. And still doesn’t provide any actual evidence of columns being cut to induce the witnessed collapse. With no evidence such a system for CD would survive the jet impacts and fires to initiate the collapse in the areas of the jet impacts.

IM not here to be your damn slave and do your work for you..

I’m just pointing out facts. And common sense.

I don't understand why you think stills of pictures are better evidence than THE ATTACUAL VIDEO PLAYING SHOWING IT.

Screen shoots from the actual video of collapse. That force you to actually see what is there, and isn’t there.

I don't trust any of the "reports" you linked

Why would I trust yours when you can’t breakdown the collapse video. And when the video is broke down it shows something other than what the truth movement claims.

or your personal opinions about them.

You have access to the same screenshots. Show where they have evidence of controlled demolition.

so there no point in talking about them. You can take what they say as evidence but i do not.

What? Items from the actual video of collapse?

BECAUSE IT DID. It's literally what started this "new world" that we currently live in and allowed them to have the "power" that you've said they would need. Are you this daft?

What did that power have to do with pandemic lockdowns? Mandated vaccines. And the current green energy being pushed that is dictating much of the current policy. And the current wave of identity politics. Or how Obamacare took over the health industry.

Its not a false anything. DO not trust them.

Ok? I don’t. But they still pay out social security to people I know. And Medicaid. Do you still pay your taxes? Have a valid drive’s license? Vote? Have a valid passport? Take government aid as needed? Drive on public roads? Call the cops as needed? The USA still does lots of right thought government. Or at least it’s “usable”. It doesn’t mean I trust it. It’s just a necessary evil.

Because It's all in the video and a simple google search will bring up what you ask for.

Why do you need a filter when you can look up cite, quote, get their full statement, and their actual context of their statements from dedicated web pages.

a reply to: tacoman101

Does your video cover this?

Deputy Chief Peter Hayden
www.firehouse.com...

Hayden: Yeah. There was enough there and we were marking off. There were a lot of damaged apparatus there that were covered. We tried to get searches in those areas. By now, this is going on into the afternoon, and we were concerned about additional collapse, not only of the Marriott, because there was a good portion of the Marriott still standing, but also we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o’clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o’clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse.

What else am i suppose to do? I

Understand what you’re actually looking at. And provide actual evidence. Not the myth your told to believe in a video.

There was seismic activity .. It's in the video. You keep saying shrapnel would be ejected but this is not true with nano thermite. There where hundreds of reports of "loud explosions" by cops and firefighters and the civilians on the ground before they collapsed.. Once again its in the video and a google search will bring it up.

I asked for the context of their comments.

And I asked for evidence of awe inspiring obvious series of explosions of an entire floor of steel columns being cut before there would ever be downed movement. That would be accompanied with flashes at all areas of explosions. The WTC was mostly space with large windows. There should be quiet clear evidence of shockwaves and shrapnel being expelled right before downward movement. And distinct and specific waves concerning seismic activity.

And you ignore it’s normal to have explosion sounds from a large building fire. All from large AC Units and electrical transformers setting off. Or large refrigeration units. Or even fire extinguishers over heating and exploding.

Electrical Transformer Fire and Explosion

m.youtube.com...

I've not changed any subject. YOU'RE the one who went in 100 different directions.

It was like pulling teeth to try to get you talk about collapse initiation. But you really haven’t done that. Just the misrepresentation of what probably was an electrical/battery room fire.

The WTC was huge and needed the electrical power to heat, cool, for the elevators, and powered equipment. And there was a battery room for backup to some of the computer infrastructure.

You posted about a hydraulic jack and how it looks the same as a demo. Of course it does BECAUSE it was designed to bring the damn building down. You're making it seem like that every building that falls will look exactly that same with or with out a demolition.

You mean that a falling building can make dust and “squibs” just by a building collapse with no explosives needed?

a reply to: tacoman101

You also realize in a controlled demolition. “Columns” Are just not cut. But cut and usually misaligned with another charge.

A "kicker" charge of bulk explosive will often be placed mid-span on the structural member to kick the structural member out milliseconds after the shape charge has cut the top and bottom of the member. Time-delay devices are often used here. To provide maximum thrust, this charge is usually tamped with sandbags to increase the confinement of explosive gas pressures. Some benefit may be obtained by placing a thin material, such as neoprene, between the charge and the member to provide for less metal spalling and force the applied explosive load to be a little more uniform. Adequate shielding also will be required around these charges as high speed metal fragments may result. The DOD reports the finding of these metal fragments at distances in excess of 1000 feet.

apps.dtic.mil...

originally posted by: tacoman101
a reply to: WhatItIs

And if i don't trust the "reports" then what's left? More stills?

In the Aegis lawsuit against WTC7 on trying to find a way of not paying out. Two opposing studies submitted under deposition that highlight the actual model of WTC 7 collapse. Where Aegis would be quick to jump on any evidence of controlled demolition. And you don’t “trust” the study, which means you get to ignore that study? And the context it was submitted? How does that work?

originally posted by: tacoman101

1. Nano thermite was found in many dust samples..

Well not really and the idea of LLNL nanothermite was just an assumption pulled out of thin air by people like Jon Cole but never tested. We do know thermite can cut, nothing new there, but the massive amount needed isn't even a direction the bad people would have gone even if they could.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Well not really and the idea of LLNL nanothermite was just an assumption pulled out of thin air by people like Jon Cole but never tested.

John Cole was not a part of this study. There have been a few testing it and finding it.

Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe

We do know thermite can cut, nothing new there, but the massive amount needed isn't even a direction the bad people would have gone even if they could.

So what direction would you take to bring down a building that was designed to withstand a strike from an aircraft? I would not rely on nanothermite alone, but as part of the mix to help weaken the core columns in critical spots its a start.

originally posted by: kwakakev

WTF is that. You just literal posted a pictures of columns cut up during cleanup as blatant false evidence? Evidence of what? Cleanup?

but as part of the mix to help weaken the core columns in critical spots its a start. ?

For WTC 1 and 2 which is more than likely where the columns came from for your picture.

The core fell last.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

Any proof core cut by thermite?

If there was thermite dust, why isn’t there residual sparking in the pictures of the bare cores? Where is the Liquid Metal cuts?


And again. For the study…

One. Show where the dust was tested in an internet atmosphere to show it could support a thermite reaction.

Two. Lots of things use iron oxide and aluminum. Like a large building with rust painted in primer with iron oxide primers. The aluminum was from kaolin clay, an aluminum silicate. Which is found in concrete, paint, and coverings.

Three. The problem with the study itself.

The study that stated that it might be thermite in a “journal” that was caught in pay to play scandals. Where the person that should have “refereed” the papers peer review was bypassed. And said the paper was crap. And the publishing of the paper was “peer” reviewed by individuals with ties to the truth movement and were consulted during the papers writing. With the people testing the dust never burned the dust in an inert atmosphere to show the chips could support a thermite reaction. But the chips were always burn during the experiment with supplied oxygen. While ignoring iron spheres are produced in other processes. Like welding, cutting during construction. And hydrocarbon fires like when jet fuel burns in a rust building with iron oxide based paint primer?

And that was from memory…

Four. There was lots of dust collected. When was the testing of the dust refined, and tried again as promised? When was the dust submitted to an independent lab for confirmation?

originally posted by: kwakakev

John Cole was not a part of this study. There have been a few testing it and finding it.

The study I'm talking about is there hasn't been one to even prove this method actually works. It is all smoke and mirrors with nano thermite just sounding like a sexy method to easily explain it all away while not knowing if it is even a real thing that can cut through steel as people suggest. Just paint it on and BAM! This would be such a massive process over most likely a year with 100s of people involved, industries to make the stuff and an extremely high risk of getting caught daily long before the event. We also know it wasn't even needed since the towers actually started their fall at the actual crash areas.

a reply to: Xtrozero

WTC7 -- This is an Orange

Youtube has dropped this video, as it does.

Thanks Mike...

I have spent years on 9/11, it is information warfare trying to make sense of it. The facts do exist if you have enough grounding in reality to find them. Kinda surprised covid took this long...

a reply to: WhatItIs

WTF is that. You just literal posted a pictures of columns cut up during cleanup as blatant false evidence? Evidence of what? Cleanup?

No Neuronflux, it has been posted before. What it is is something you are not ready for. If you want to know, try a reverse image search.

originally posted by: kwakakev
a reply to: WhatItIs

WTF is that. You just literal posted a pictures of columns cut up during cleanup as blatant false evidence? Evidence of what? Cleanup?

No Neuronflux, it has been posted before. What it is is something you are not ready for. If you want to know, try a reverse image search.

More false authority by you. You blind yourself to the con of the truth movement. And grope around for something other the the reality of groups not the US government that funded, backed, and made 9/11 possible. 9/11 was a conspiracy and act by middle eastern radicals pulled off under the nose of a sleeping/incompetent US government.

originally posted by: kwakakev
a reply to: WhatItIs

WTF is that. You just literal posted a pictures of columns cut up during cleanup as blatant false evidence? Evidence of what? Cleanup?

No Neuronflux, it has been posted before. What it is is something you are not ready for. If you want to know, try a reverse image search.

More like you’re to afraid to have another truth movement lie exposed.

Exactly how do complex and hybrid CD systems requiring split second timing in your myth maintain its integrity through impacts, building damage, and fires to an accurate. Especially in WTC 1 and 2 where the systems would have had to actuate in the areas of the jet impacts?

How would any required wiring and electronics have survived.


I’ll help you out. The jet impacts, fires, and building damage would have made your myth of a CD system actuating as required impossible.

a reply to: WhatItIs

[quote]
More like you’re to afraid to have another truth movement lie exposed.


The truth movement feeds on having lies exposed. So nothing on that reverse image search? Thats ok, we are all sinners.

Especially in WTC 1 and 2 where the systems would have had to actuate in the areas of the jet impacts?

So a few trillion can go missing the day before 9/11, then the one spot in the Pentagon tasked to find it get blown up. I know it sucks thinking that some parts of government would rather us dead. so how is that covid thing going?

originally posted by: kwakakev
a reply to: WhatItIs


So a few trillion can go missing the day before 9/11,

There you go again. Using false myth again.

Are you talking about the accounting debacle that is the Pentagon that happened over years. And still going on.

You blatantly misrepresented the situation. And changing the subject from the WTC.

Truth movement. Bad accounting practices equals evidence of something else? When bad accounting practices is only evidence of bad accounting practices.

You

then the one spot in the Pentagon tasked to find it get blown up.

Really. What part of the computer system and net work the would have held the financial records and accounting be destroyed and it’s back ups? Along with payments between the Pentagon, the treasury department, and third party bank records. And then the financial and bank records of the contractors.

When it’s know and all evidence points to a group of terrorists impacting a civilian passenger jet into the Pentagon.


Which has what to do with you trying to ridiculously claim someone used a magical beam to dustification the WTC?

a reply to: WhatItIs

Which has what to do with you trying to ridiculously claim someone used a magical beam to dustification the WTC?

I have never claimed it was a magical beam. I don't exactly know what it was. Whatever it was quickly reached temperatures in many thousands of degrees to do what was done to the spire of the building.



Then where did the rest of the building go?



To say there was no dustification goes beyond ridiculous and looks more like extreme denial. Only you know why you don't want to face the facts. I hope you can find the strength to deny ignorance, if that is what you want.

originally posted by: kwakakev
a reply to: WhatItIs

I don't exactly know what it was. Whatever it was quickly reached temperatures in many thousands of degrees to do what was done to the spire of the building.

Then where did the rest of the building go?

Really.

I guess the building core ended up here…

originally posted by: kwakakev
a reply to: Xtrozero

The beans weren’t “thousands of degrees”

Again..

originally posted by: kwakakev
a reply to: WhatItIs


If you check more into where those images come from and cross reference with other angles of the towers destruction, you will find that those sequence of images shows the spire (very top) of one of the buildings turn to dust. It does not show the core of the building still standing.

After video of seeing large portions of the core left unsupported tumbling down or outward?

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

The video shows a steel column or columns shedding dust as it falls.









Picks from a video this post.

www.metabunk.org...

The steel drops with no reason to stand long with no floor system to support it. The steel drops down. Then the dust is left in its wake.


If the column was being hit with a high energy weapon. What exactly is it doing. There is no radiance from the steel showing its temperature was raise to soften it.

Unlike the video below. There is no flashing and degassing as from primer, paint, and rust being burnt off. And steel being vaporized.

m.youtube.com...

And there is no evidence structural steel was missing…

Judy Wood's Blatant Misrepresentation of 9-11 Facts
February 21, 2013

What’s Woods bizarre idea about a hurricane?

THE TRACK OF HURRICANE ERIN (2001) - Erin, a tropical storm/hurricane, did not even come close to Manhattan. It passed Bermuda and moved away from the strong high pressure zone over the Eastern United States.

www.bollyn.com...

+++++If the core was just over 800 degrees Fahrenheit, it would be glowing bright cherry red in the photos you are showing.. ++++

originally posted by: [

.

Exactly how much dust should a 110 story building full of drywall and light concrete coating floor pans make?

Compared to the towers. Relatively small building, no explosives. Just broken in a section by hydraulics, then fell into it’s self.

originally posted by: neutronflux

The below was a hydraulic jack actuated collapse. Shows air pressure can push out stuff.

What looks like after the building being wetted and actively sprayed with water to try to keep the dust down…

a reply to: WhatItIs

The steel drops with no reason to stand long with no floor system to support it. The steel drops down. Then the dust is left in its wake.

So where does this steel beam go in the next few frames of the video this image is from? There is no steal beam falling, just the steal turning to dust and blowing away in the wind..

If the column was being hit with a high energy weapon. What exactly is it doing. There is no radiance from the steel showing its temperature was raise to soften it.

I don't exactly know what it is doing. What it does look like is that the heat wave that hits is so hot the steal does not have enough time to react as one solid piece of steal, it just all turns to tiny rust particles in seconds.

Unlike the video below. There is no flashing and degassing as from primer, paint, and rust being burnt off. And steel being vaporized.

If you check out the video after the last frame in this post and it is perfect evidence of steal being vaporized.

How you manage to twist facts like this comes across as deceptive behavior. You only use parts of a video that support your conclusion, then disregard the rest.

You ain't the only one doing it these days, just trying doing a goggle search and there is a big psychological operation going on to control the narrative. Are you happy being a part of this?

a reply to: WhatItIs

I have watched the video you linked to a few more times and it ain't a perfect example of the vaporization.

I can see some of what you are talking about. When following the tip of the remaining structure as it falls, there is still some density left before it falls out of view. It has not been completely vaporized or dustified with what we can see.

With the volume of dust that does come off the structure as it falls, it does look like the structure is degrading at a rapid rate.

The part of the building your video is from is one of the corners, closer to the ground. The more intense heat went through the core of the building. It is the spire, the very top of the building as it falls that presents a clearer image of the dustification / vaporization process in action.

I know I am not perfect, get things wrong at times. When we cannot fix those mistakes, those mistakes are just going to keep happening.