Trying to resolve 9/11

originally posted by: democracydemo
a reply to: neutronflux

Please go on with the stupidity.

What of Tom Hosey?

Not knowing when a jackhammer is used and why. And thinking a remodel is a nefarious plot.

a reply to: democracydemo

And if it was a nefarious plot? Maybe contractors were illegally remove asbestos? Or moving dead bodies? Bypassing labor agreements with unions? Did have not building permits? And could possibly have nothing to do with planting pyrotechnics......

originally posted by: neutronflux

You explain how your fantasy CD systems for the Twin Towers would survive jet impacts the cut trough the windows, outside cladding, the outer vertical columns, took out floor pans, took out floor panels, took out core columns, parts of the jet passed through the opposing outer wall, and the wide spread fires to initiate collapse on the floors with the greatest impact damage. As recorded on the video evidence.

Why wouldn’t fire insulation be knocked off?

You show me proof of columns being actively cut to initiate collapse at the WTC.

You can't talk about proof, when your side stole all the evidence illegally, and shipped it to China!

That's what really bothers me. It's not that you don't believe it was a CD. It's that you completely IGNORE this despicable crime of destroying all the evidence, which doesn't make any sense. Any honest person should be disgusted, and appalled, by that crime alone. No matter what it shows, it is a crime. You seem totally oblivious to that criminal act, or maybe you are evil, like those involved. Whatever the case, it is God who judges all our actions, and deeds on Earth. It's only a fool who thinks they can get away with it. They pay dearly in the end, my friend. Don't say you weren't warned about it, because God will know it is all a lie.

If this crime does not bother you, what is your true agenda here?

a reply to: turbonium1

You can't talk about proof, when your side stole all the evidence illegally, and shipped it to China!

Not all of it went to China. We need the political will to go back to the drawing board and over turn over the national security orders around this issue to really sort it out.

a reply to: turbonium1

You

You can't talk about proof, when your side stole all the evidence illegally, and shipped it to China.

More Turbo lies?

The Last Artifacts Of 9/11 Have Been Given Away

After 15 years

BY THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
September 10, 2016 1:05 PM EDT

fortune.com...

Tons of wreckage — twisted steel beams weighing up to 40,000 pounds, chunks of concrete smelling of smoke, a crushed fire engine, a dust-covered airline slipper

In documentary, first responders tell of 9/11, aftermath at Fresh Kills landfill

Updated Jan 03, 2019; Posted Aug 05, 2011

www.silive.com...

ISLANDIA, N.Y. — Anthony Yacapino was sitting at home, watching a Bugs Bunny cartoon in 2004 when he felt the first signs of post-traumatic stress disorder. “My heart felt like it was leaping out of my chest. I thought I was dying. It was seriously scary,” he recalls.

The retired New York City police detective, like thousands of colleagues, worked for months after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks dealing with the aftermath. He interviewed relatives of the dead at a bereavement center and later searched for human remains and victims’ belongings at the former Fresh Kills landfill on Staten Island.

2001-10-15 04:00:00 PDT New York -- The world's largest landfill, a 2,200-foot mound of compacted trash on Staten Island that is visible from outer space, has been reborn as the world's largest crime scene.

For 51 years, nearby residents railed against the Fresh Kills landfill as smelly, unhealthy and unsightly, and it appeared they had prevailed when the dump was closed in March.

But the terrorist attack of Sept. 11, which reduced the World Trade Center to 1.2 million tons of twisted metal, broken concrete, pulverized glass and body parts forced officials to reopen the landfill, which stands 25 feet taller than the Statue of Liberty.

"It's really been a scene out there, trucks going all the time, lights on all night," said Wayne Ponemon, who was among the Staten Island residents who welcomed the landfill's closure. "Now it feels busier than ever."

Twenty-four hours a day, 400 New York police detectives, FBI agents and other workers rake and shovel through the debris in search of evidence. They also gather body parts, which are placed in plastic buckets and taken to a refrigerated van for possible identification.

Fresh Kills (Landfill) - WTC Debris Burial Ground, pt. 1

m.youtube.com...

Fresh Kills (Landfill) - WTC Debris Burial Ground, pt. 2

m.youtube.com...

Got any more truth movement lies Turbo?

a reply to: turbonium1

If your just going to blatantly lie. Go away.

a reply to: turbonium1

Cutting Off Samples from WTC Steel at NIST - Tape 1 of 3 (April 2002)
m.youtube.com...

Cutting Off Samples from WTC Steel at NIST - Tape 2 of 3 (April 2002)
m.youtube.com...

The Last Column is Removed from the WTC
m.youtube.com...

9/11: Jon Snow visits Ground Zero two months after the attack | Channel 4 News
m.youtube.com...

Mangled WTC steel bought by China
Ching-Ching Ni, Special to the Tribune. Ching-Ching Ni is a staff reporter for the Los Angeles Times, a Tribune newspaper
CHICAGO TRIBUNE

As New Yorkers emotionally debate what kind of memorial should honor those killed in the Sept. 11 World Trade Center attack, 50,000 tons of mangled metal from the twin towers have been sold and shipped to China as scrap.

China's largest steel company denied reports that it plans to make souvenirs out of metal from the collapsed buildings. But officials at Shanghai Baosteel here said the company did buy scrap from the wreckage of the terrorist attack.

For those involved in the deal, the purchase was an ordinary business transaction.

"Scrap from the World Trade Center is cheap, and the quality is good," said Cao Xianggen, an engineer at Baosteel. "America can't use it all, but China has a huge demand for it."

For some victims' families, however, the selling of the steel that entombed their loved ones could prove an example of cold-hearted global trade.

The families had made emotional appeals to the city of New York to stop the recycling until further clues could be found about the towers' collapse. New York officials said the investigation could continue without the physical wreckage.

In New York, city officials confirmed that at least two companies had bid successfully on scrap material from the World Trade Center, but they said that they didn't know what had happened to the material after it was purchased.

Baosteel is believed to have bought the steel from one of the two companies. A staff member at Baosteel's shipping department said late Friday that a ship carrying the wreckage had left the United States in the middle of December but that it probably wouldn't reach China on schedule. Part of the 50,000-ton purchase had been due to arrive Friday.

China is one of the world's leading producers of steel. During the Great Leap Forward in the 1950s, China wanted to prove its self-sufficiency, so it made the whole country turn in pots and pans, antique decor, any metal objects people could find to forge steel.

Today, it relies on other countries for its raw material. In 2000, the country imported 5.1 million tons of scrap, according to the Shanghai Daily. The average selling price is about $150 a ton, the newspaper said.

Baosteel bought some of the remains of the World Trade Center for $120 a ton, according to the Beijing Youth Daily.

The management office at Metal Management in New Jersey, one of the two original buyers, didn't return calls.

But Alan Ratner, president of Metal Management, told the New York Daily News last month: "This is recycling at its purest form. Our job is to take material and find a beneficial reuse for it."

Some of the wreckage, Ratner said, will be donated to a memorial.

Considering that almost 3,000 people died in the suicide attack on the World Trade Center and weighing the sensitivity of U.S.-China relations, Baosteel vehemently has denied reports made by the Beijing Youth Daily that the company might profit from sales of mini-WTC replicas.

"Baosteel absolutely did not buy scrap with the intention of making arts and craft," according to a posting that appeared on the company's Web site Friday.

Indian companies also bought scrap from New York's disaster zone.

The World Trade Center wreckage is expected to produce an estimated 300,000 tons of structural steel. The girders, columns and beams will be melted down and reforged into basic building materials in Asia....

www.chicagotribune.com...

New York's Metal Management, one of the firms taking steel to clear the area, has said it bought 70,000 tons of scrap metal from the twin towers, some of which has been shipped to Southeast Asia. But according to Metal Management, not all of the WTC metal will end up across the globe: the city will keep some metal for a memorial to those killed on Sept. 11.

www.waste360.com...

Calling me a liar while completely ignoring/silently approving of the criminal removal of so much evidence at the site, shows where YOU stand on this issue, that's for sure.


You cannot even admit it was DONE, let alone that admit it was a crime, can you?

If that's not disgusting, what is?

a reply to: turbonium1

Dude.
You are referring to steel from collateral damage of the towers at the WTC . Not the actual 200,000 tons of structural steel of the Twin Towers.

Calling me a liar while completely ignoring/silently approving of the criminal removal of so much evidence at the site, shows where YOU stand on this issue, that's for sure

I didn’t call you a liar. I provided evidence your are a liar, and totally misrepresenting the situation for an event that is caught on video from multiple angles, with audio evidence, photographic evidence, and seismic evidence.

Anyway. The cited sources that the WTC Twin Tower steel was examined, key pieces saved, sampled, cataloged, with a visual record.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: turbonium1

You

You can't talk about proof, when your side stole all the evidence illegally, and shipped it to China.

More Turbo lies?

The Last Artifacts Of 9/11 Have Been Given Away

After 15 years

BY THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
September 10, 2016 1:05 PM EDT

fortune.com...

Tons of wreckage — twisted steel beams weighing up to 40,000 pounds, chunks of concrete smelling of smoke, a crushed fire engine, a dust-covered airline slipper

In documentary, first responders tell of 9/11, aftermath at Fresh Kills landfill

Updated Jan 03, 2019; Posted Aug 05, 2011

www.silive.com...

ISLANDIA, N.Y. — Anthony Yacapino was sitting at home, watching a Bugs Bunny cartoon in 2004 when he felt the first signs of post-traumatic stress disorder. “My heart felt like it was leaping out of my chest. I thought I was dying. It was seriously scary,” he recalls.

The retired New York City police detective, like thousands of colleagues, worked for months after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks dealing with the aftermath. He interviewed relatives of the dead at a bereavement center and later searched for human remains and victims’ belongings at the former Fresh Kills landfill on Staten Island.

2001-10-15 04:00:00 PDT New York -- The world's largest landfill, a 2,200-foot mound of compacted trash on Staten Island that is visible from outer space, has been reborn as the world's largest crime scene.

For 51 years, nearby residents railed against the Fresh Kills landfill as smelly, unhealthy and unsightly, and it appeared they had prevailed when the dump was closed in March.

But the terrorist attack of Sept. 11, which reduced the World Trade Center to 1.2 million tons of twisted metal, broken concrete, pulverized glass and body parts forced officials to reopen the landfill, which stands 25 feet taller than the Statue of Liberty.

"It's really been a scene out there, trucks going all the time, lights on all night," said Wayne Ponemon, who was among the Staten Island residents who welcomed the landfill's closure. "Now it feels busier than ever."

Twenty-four hours a day, 400 New York police detectives, FBI agents and other workers rake and shovel through the debris in search of evidence. They also gather body parts, which are placed in plastic buckets and taken to a refrigerated van for possible identification.

Fresh Kills (Landfill) - WTC Debris Burial Ground, pt. 1

m.youtube.com...

Fresh Kills (Landfill) - WTC Debris Burial Ground, pt. 2

m.youtube.com...

Got any more truth movement lies Turbo?

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: turbonium1

Cutting Off Samples from WTC Steel at NIST - Tape 1 of 3 (April 2002)
m.youtube.com...

Cutting Off Samples from WTC Steel at NIST - Tape 2 of 3 (April 2002)
m.youtube.com...

The Last Column is Removed from the WTC
m.youtube.com...

9/11: Jon Snow visits Ground Zero two months after the attack | Channel 4 News
m.youtube.com...

a reply to: turbonium1

More proof the WTS structural steel was examined....

And you are a proven liar.

Photo evidence the core columns fell last.




The record of the steel starts with the actual video evidence.

Failure of Welded Floor Truss Connections from the Exterior Wall during Collapse of the World Trade Center Towers
app.aws.org...

Characterization of Submerged Arc Welds from the World Trade Center Towers: As- Deposited Welds and Failures Associated with Impact Damage of the Exterior Columns
Lessons learned from the investigation of building materials, construction, an

files.aws.org...

As a result of the recovery efforts of the Structural Engineers Association of New York, Federal Emergency Management Agency/American Society of Civil Engineers, and the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), NIST possesses 236 structural steel elements from the World Trade Center (WTC) buildings. These samples include full exterior column panels, core columns, portions of the floor truss members, channels used to attach the floor trusses to the interior columns, and other smaller structural components (e.g., bolts, diagonal bracing straps, aluminum fa9ade). Many significant pieceswererecoveredfromtheimpactandfire-affectedfloors. Additionally,therecoveredstructural elements have yielded sufficient representative samples, with respect to the detennination of the quality and mechanical properties of the steel, for all 12 grades of exterior panel material, 2 grades of the core column material (representing 99 percent, by total number, of the columns), and both grades for the floor truss material. The lack of WTC 7 steel precludes tests on actual material from the structure; however, WTC 7 was constructed of three grades of conventional steel (36 ksi, 42 ksi, and 50 ksi), and hterature values may be used to estimate properties.

The same failure modes for the Twin Towers was seen over and over again. With no evidence the steel being worked on by planted pyrotechnics as supported by no evidence of steel being cut by planted pyrotechnics from the video, audio, seismic evidence.

More here for WTC 5 proving the WTC was susceptible to fire related failures



So. What is this about this lie the WTC steel not being examined, representative samples not being saved, no photographic/ video log of the steel? Like to keep going on about your blatant lies?

They say in life it is important to know when to stop arguing with people and simply let them be wrong. To let them think they are right.

Put another way, it's impossible to have a rational discussion with a human in denial. It is easier to fool a man than it is to explain to him how he has been fooled.

originally posted by: Salander
They say in life it is important to know when to stop arguing with people and simply let them be wrong. To let them think they are right.

Put another way, it's impossible to have a rational discussion with a human in denial. It is easier to fool a man than it is to explain to him how he has been fooled.

Why do you always talk about yourself Salander?

Now. Do you have actual evidence WTC columns cut by pyrotechnics. Oh. Wait. Your pet fantasy was planted nukes. Your easily fooled if you think nukes were used at the WTC.

a reply to: neutronflux

No element of the Official Conspiracy Theory is true, and we all know it.



You are unable to prove any element of that theory, and we both know it.

originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: neutronflux

No element of the Official Conspiracy Theory is true, and we all know it.

You are unable to prove any element of that theory, and we both know it.

Really. No jets hit the twin towers?

I think it was proven you are blatantly lying.

Remember. You post “No element of the Official Conspiracy Theory is true.”

So? No people were killed during 9/11. That is an element of the “official” record.

So? The collapse of WTC 1, 2, and 7 are preserved on video. That is an element of the “official” Record.

a reply to: Salander

How about we list of lies of the truth movement.

The twin towers fell at the rate of free fall. Truth movement lie.

The twin towers fell through the path of greatest resistance. Truth movement lie.

The WTC buildings fell only in their own footprint. Truth movement lie.

Too much dust. Truth movement lie.

The Structural steel of the twin towers was absolutely not cataloged, recorded, inspected, samples, and analyzed. Truth movement lie.

All the structural steel went to china with no inspection or sampling. Truth movement lie.

Fire could not cause structural failures. Truth movement lie as proven by WTC 5.

Photos of twin tower columns cut by thermite. Truth movement lie. Columns cut at cleanup by thermal lance.

Seismic evidence has record of explosives cutting columns. Truth movement lie.

Nukes or thermite made the pile smolder for months. Truth movement lie.

Jonathan Cahn 8 2 2020


The Harbinger

The author says that The Harbinger is a fictional story which is nevertheless concerned with a real-life connection: a prophecy about ancient Israel that was eventually fulfilled in the eighth century BC when Israel was destroyed, and certain events and facts related to the 9/11 terror attacks against the U.S. in 2001. Cahn calls these events and facts "harbingers," and argues that they show a connection between ancient Israel's destruction and a possible coming destruction of the present-day United States. He also says that ancient Israel received a warning before being destroyed, and that the 9/11 harbingers form a similar warning from God to America.[4]

The author argues that America was founded similar to ancient Israel and the Founding Fathers envisioned a country based on the rules of God and a Light Unto the Nations. The author lists a series of warnings or harbingers that were given to ancient Israel before its final destruction by the Assyrians and makes a parallel between each and the events of 9/11.

Wikipedia

The Harbinger II is about to be released. A lot of people are looking for a resolution to 9/11. This story does make a good rally call and heads up for how a resolution may play out. With a lot of historical records and esoteric themes it does help in considering some of the spiritual aspects to it.

a reply to: turbonium1

HMMM......
Mangled steel from WTC all sent to China ??????

Maybe should call the Chinese and tell them to pickup the beam from WTC we have in town

And most every town in this area - they have memorials to people lost at WTC that day . 700 people from New Jersey died that day

Some towns lost many residents

Of course you don't know about or care about it ……….

originally posted by: neutronflux

Dude.
You are referring to steel from collateral damage of the towers at the WTC . Not the actual 200,000 tons of structural steel of the Twin Towers.

Are you seriously claiming that they went to Ground Zero, and sifted through tons of debris, and identified every fragment and chunk of steel as either WTC steel, or not WTC steel, and collected only the non-WTC steel?

That's probably the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, and that's saying something!

Where do you believe they possibly could have collected tons of scrap steel at Ground Zero? There were no other buildings which were completely destroyed, and the debris was minimal, so where do you think they got 70 tons of steel from... Home Depot? You're in complete denial of reality, no doubt about it.

a reply to: turbonium1

Are you seriously claiming that they went to Ground Zero, and sifted through tons of debris, and identified every fragment and chunk of steel as either WTC steel, or not WTC steel, and collected only the non-WTC steel?

For the twin towers it was done due to the ID numbers on the structural steel

In this system, all the steel was transported from the manufacturers to a giant railroad yard in New Jersey. Every major piece of steel was marked with a long ID number, indicating where and when it would be used. According to the construction schedule, the Port Authority would ship the steel pieces from the yard to the site exactly when it was needed -- smaller pieces went by truck and larger pieces by tugboat.
science.howstuffworks.com...

present location and labeling of structural steel elements
At present, the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) possesses 236 labeled samples fromtheWorldTradeCenter(WTC)buildings. WhilethemajorityoftheNIST-heldsamplesresideon the Gaithersburg campus, some samples were shipped to the Boulder, Colorado, campus for mechanical property testing following initial documentation.
As samples were delivered, overall images of the pieces were taken for record-keeping purposes. An example is shown in Fig. 3-1. Samples are identified by their original alphanumeric identification codes assigned by Structural Engineers Association of New York to be consistent with the Federal Emergency ManagementAgencyreport. However,therewerecasesinwhichtwodifferentcodeswerefoundonone piece. In these instances, if the pieces were already undergoing documentation procedures, the first code notedwasused. SamplesthatarrivedlackingacodewerelabeledaspartoftheUseries. Additionally, samples brought from Hanger 17 at Jolin F. Kennedy International Airport maintained their "B"-series labels provided in the Voorsanger report.

www.govinfo.gov...

Again.

To say the structural steel of the twin towers was sent straight to China with no identification, documentation, examination, evaluation, cataloging, sampling, and analysis is a straight up lie.

And it is well documented throughout ATS you straight up lie.

originally posted by: firerescue
a reply to: turbonium1

HMMM......
Mangled steel from WTC all sent to China ??????

Maybe should call the Chinese and tell them to pickup the beam from WTC we have in town

And most every town in this area - they have memorials to people lost at WTC that day . 700 people from New Jersey died that day

Some towns lost many residents

Of course you don't know about or care about it ……….

I care that they allowed the theft of tons of evidence at the scene of this mass murder, which would have helped to identify the perpetrators, who KILLED those 700 people from New Jersey that day.

Do you care about them never finding out who killed these people, because it doesn't look like it.

This was a mass murder, and ALL the evidence MUST remain at the scene, without exception. How can you possibly point to a couple of beams from the site, and think that's good enough? That's a joke, buddy.

No matter who was responsible, or how it was done, the only way we can EVER find out, is by examining ALL of the evidence at the scene, every single piece of it, because the greatest evidence may BE found on a single fragment, from the crime scene.

Imagine if a murder inside of a house was treated like that. The very nest day after the murder took place, the police called up a scrap dealer, let him come into the house, to collect all the valuable furniture, because it was worth a few bucks. And the cops justify it by saying the body was in a bedroom, not the living room, where the furniture was taken out.

Would you say 'well, here's the bedroom dresser', as if that's good enough to find the murderer? No, that would be completely stupid, right?

Now, if it was a close friend of yours that was murdered, and you knew the cops let a scrap dealer collect furniture from the house the next day, because they said the murder took place in the bedroom, what would YOU think?

One thing I know, you sure as hell wouldn't point to the bedroom dresser, and say 'that's all the evidence they need to find out who did it'!

EVERY piece of steel was evidence, no matter WHAT building it was from, which is a remarkable excuse for someone who claims to 'care' so much!