Trying to resolve 9/11

a reply to: MoonMine

precisely timed detonation of an incendiary device or devices in the central core at the exact moment the plane struck?

Precision is elusive in CD.
There are far too many vids on YT showing CD gone wrong.
You can try to fabricate a conspiracy around any of the small events that day.
But when you add all the events together a grand conspiracy falls flat.

The biggest thing is you don't need to kill 3000 people and flatten some of the
largest buildings in the US to get us into a war.

a reply to: MoonMine

And where is the demolitions shrapnel from such an even?

Katie Bender's family commemorate 20 years since Royal Canberra Hospital implosion

www.canberratimes.com.au...

Katie was was killed instantly by a steel fragment sent flying from 430 metres across the lake. It was thought to be travelling at 140km/h.

Any shrapnel attributed to demolitions? Pulled from the injured or dead?

It’s coming from a vent. An explosive device capable of cutting core columns would not be contained by the sheet metal of a vent.

Why would an “incendiary device” create a pressure wave. You need to clearly state if you think an explosive device cut columns by pressure wave. Or if you think pyrotechnics burnt through a column. And state what chemical compound was used.

Correct me if I am wrong. The initial shockwave from the impact and fuel exploding would travel through the air / structural at the speed of sound.

There is no evidence above the impact points the core was damaged.

a reply to: MoonMine

I watched the video a few times. The jet hit late 1:09 into the video, or early 1:10. The dust coming out of the vents at the top of the tower didn’t exit until late 1:12 or early 1:13.

a reply to: MoonMine

Video at 1:11

originally posted by: neutronflux
And where is the demolitions shrapnel from such an even?
Any shrapnel attributed to demolitions? Pulled from the injured or dead?

Irrelevant and a weak argument because it would be impossible to determine either way where "shrapnel" came from in the aftermath.

It’s coming from a vent. An explosive device capable of cutting core columns would not be contained by the sheet metal of a vent.

Yes, and? That's probably why the blow out shows up on the top level in the first place.

Why would an “incendiary device” create a pressure wave. You need to clearly state if you think an explosive device cut columns by pressure wave.

Explosions create pressure waves. Where did I say columns were cut by a pressure wave? Do not put words in my mouth.

Or if you think pyrotechnics burnt through a column. And state what chemical compound was used.

Do not presume to tell me what I do or not need to do.

Without knowing exactly what type of device was used and how it was setup no determination can be made other than if such explosion(s) took place that it weakened the core structure. It is the only logical conclusion given the end result.

Correct me if I am wrong. The initial shockwave from the impact and fuel exploding would travel through the air / structural at the speed of sound.

You are wrong. The air displacement would initially match the speed of the object that impacted the building.

There is no evidence above the impact points the core was damaged.

I am not claiming the core was damaged above the impact point. It may have been an explosion lower in the core with the shock wave exiting up through the elevator shafts.

There is video evidence that shows a dark grey blow out on the top level front and left within one second of impact. Are you claiming otherwise?

originally posted by: neutronflux
I watched the video a few times. The jet hit late 1:09 into the video, or early 1:10. The dust coming out of the vents at the top of the tower didn’t exit until late 1:12 or early 1:13.

So 1:10 impact like I said.
And (late if you will) 1:11 you can see the blow out on the front top level - just as the camera starts to zoom in.

It is there. And it is not explained.

a reply to: neutronflux

You do understand there is a whole field of metallurgy? That describes what happens to metal in terms of grain boundary, or crystalline structure. And deals in defined failure modes of steel. Like brittle fracture, or fatigue?

Yes.

What failure mode is jet hole? And how does it affect the grain boundary and crystalline structure of steel?

Very high pressure gas to a surface. Breaks the surface and leaves a hole you see.

This is the fourth forensic investigator that stated this looks like damage from a high explosive charge.

Emphasized on Fourth.

a reply to: MoonMine

You

Irrelevant and a weak argument because it would be impossible to determine either way where "shrapnel" came from in the aftermath.

Shrapnel is well studied and very distinctive from explosive cutting steel. It’s been studied for decades by the military. Any doctor that treated combat injuries would be familiar with its characteristics. It would be party the coroner reports on recovering and identifying remains. Cause of death.

The hospital implosion killed that poor girl over 400 meters away, and was less than ten floors tall. How far should demolitions cutting core columns spray shrapnel from a 110 floor building?

originally posted by: samkent
Precision is elusive in CD.

On the contrary - precision is essential in controlled demolition.

There are far too many vids on YT showing CD gone wrong.

This means precision is elusive in CD according to you?

You can try to fabricate a conspiracy around any of the small events that day.

I am making an observation and trying to determine what effect caused my observation.

But when you add all the events together a grand conspiracy falls flat.

When you add all events together any reasonable sane minded individual would and should be suspicious of the official narrative.

The biggest thing is you don't need to kill 3000 people and flatten some of the
largest buildings in the US to get us into a war.

100% correct.
All you need is some fabricated evidence of WMD's and a supportive media to push fear into and convince the masses.

a reply to: MoonMine

You

Explosions create pressure waves. Where did I say columns were cut by a pressure wave? Do not put words in my mouth.

And you

The top blowout from the elevator shafts due to a precisely timed detonation of an incendiary device or devices in the central core at the exact moment the plane struck?

You need to make up your mind. Incendiary devices cut by burning, not by pressure wave. Incendiary devices would not cause the event you are concerned with.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: MoonMine

You

Irrelevant and a weak argument because it would be impossible to determine either way where "shrapnel" came from in the aftermath.

Shrapnel is well studied and very distinctive from explosive cutting steel. It’s been studied for decades by the military. Any doctor that treated combat injuries would be familiar with its characteristics. It would be party the coroner reports on recovering and identifying remains. Cause of death.

The hospital implosion killed that poor girl over 400 meters away, and was less than ten floors tall. How far should demolitions cutting core columns spray shrapnel from a 110 floor building?

And how exactly would you propose shrapnel would be identified as such in the aftermath of 9/11 with debris and twisted metal parts everywhere? Would there be shrapnel in the bodies in the WTC ruins? I believe the biggest body piece they found was a finger if I recall correctly.

You know very well the core structure is surrounded by major construction and that any shrapnel would need to find it's way outside through that construction to even land on the ground.

Please stop with your straw man nonsense. If you cannot come up with a better explanation for the blow out on the top floor it is no point for you posting about it any further,

originally posted by: neutronflux
You need to make up your mind. Incendiary devices cut by burning, not by pressure wave. Incendiary devices would not cause the event you are concerned with.

Explosive device. Happy?

a reply to: MoonMine

You

At 1:10 impact - "Holy Sh.."
At 1:11 Less than one second after impact a cloud of dark grey smoke comes out of the top floor on the front and the top floor to the left. Look closely when the blowout on the top floor occurs.

Are wrong on the 1:11


And didn’t answer:
Correct me if I am wrong. The initial shockwave from the impact and fuel exploding would travel through the air / structural at the speed of sound.

If shockwaves from the jet impacts and fuel explosion pushed in to vents leading out of the building, the shockwave would travel through the vents at the speed of sound. Is that false.

a reply to: MoonMine

I posted an example of a person killed at an explosion. And specifically posted

And where is the demolitions shrapnel from such an even?

Katie Bender's family commemorate 20 years since Royal Canberra Hospital implosion

www.canberratimes.com.au...

Katie was was killed instantly by a steel fragment sent flying from 430 metres across the lake. It was thought to be travelling at 140km/h.

Any shrapnel attributed to demolitions? Pulled from the injured or dead?

Then in another post stated

Shrapnel is well studied and very distinctive from explosive cutting steel. It’s been studied for decades by the military. Any doctor that treated combat injuries would be familiar with its characteristics. It would be party the coroner reports on recovering and identifying remains. Cause of death.

The hospital implosion killed that poor girl over 400 meters away, and was less than ten floors tall. How far should demolitions cutting core columns spray shrapnel from a 110 floor building?

originally posted by: neutronflux
Are wrong on the 1:11

Already answered above.

And didn’t answer:
Correct me if I am wrong. The initial shockwave from the impact and fuel exploding would travel through the air / structural at the speed of sound.

If shockwaves from the jet impacts and fuel explosion pushed in to vents leading out of the building, the shockwave would travel through the vents at the speed of sound. Is that false.

Already answered above.

Anything else before I start ignoring you?

a reply to: MoonMine

What are you ranting about?

How would an incendiary device create the event you are concerned about?

originally posted by: democracydemo
a reply to: neutronflux

You do understand there is a whole field of metallurgy? That describes what happens to metal in terms of grain boundary, or crystalline structure. And deals in defined failure modes of steel. Like brittle fracture, or fatigue?

Yes.

What failure mode is jet hole? And how does it affect the grain boundary and crystalline structure of steel?

Very high pressure gas to a surface. Breaks the surface and leaves a hole you see.

This is the fourth forensic investigator that stated this looks like damage from a high explosive charge.

Emphasized on Fourth.

? This


Was caused by steel punching into steel

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: MoonMine

What are you ranting about?

How would an incendiary device create the event you are concerned about?

Explosive device. Happy? Or.should I.spell.it.out.for.you. I correct my statement from incendiary to explosive ok?

Are you going to post the same things over and over again hoping for a different outcome?

That's the definition of insanity isn't it?

a reply to: MoonMine

The jet fuel exploded on impact and resulted in a shockwave. A shockwave that was heard. At what speed would the shockwave from the explosion travel through the air? You might want to study what makes sound waves? And how sound waves travel through the air? And at what speeds.

originally posted by: MoonMine

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: MoonMine

What are you ranting about?

How would an incendiary device create the event you are concerned about?

Explosive device. Happy? Or.should I.spell.it.out.for.you. I correct my statement from incendiary to explosive ok?

Are you going to post the same things over and over again hoping for a different outcome?

That's the definition of insanity isn't it?

And there is no evidence what you are addressing was caused by planted explosives. And has everything to do with the shockwave of the jet fuel exploding on the impact.