Bums and how to deal with them

a reply to: Fools

You were doing very well until the government deal (social worker) and then forced labour (3 days/4hours bit), then the "cells" bit etc.

10 outa 10 for initial desire to help......... Very christian.
-10 outa 10 (yes that's minus) for execution.........very unchristian.

These people are "bums" because their rejecting the system so ramming it down their throat is going to create an undesirable response.

To your credit i always said also if i won lotto (big) i would buy a old motel renovate it and offer free UNCONDITIONAL accomadation to anyone homeless, they would have 5 years to maximum to turn it around or be evicted. That's it, no demands no rules all up to them.

As a Christian what more can you do to be servant to the people. 5 years is along time but the facility/motel would have to be able to help others so a reset date is enevitable in my case 5 years.

No doubt this facility would get positive feedback on many levels promting the omitted system (in my setup), to follow suit.

Now i honestly believe if you give these people a real opportunity to get over their pain/issues in their own time in their own way the vast majority would turn it around and "bums" on the strrets would after 15-20 years be obsolete.

That's my take.

originally posted by: FlyingFox
I don't think the bums will like it.

Correct, it's close but no cigar.

originally posted by: CX
Not calling them "bums" would be a good start.

CX.

Why not? Thats what they are. They just bum around.

That's the problem in this world noone can handle the truth anymore.

But i understand your logic nevertheless.

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: CX
Not calling them "bums" would be a good start.

CX.

Actually bum is the correct word. Dictionary wise.


That being said it's a plan that would not work.
Most of these people are either addicts or have mental illness that wouldn't allow them to follow these rules.

Exactly 100 %. They've already rejected the system, OP is just although commendable a leopard trying to hide it's spots.

originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: Fools

So many of them are drug addicts or uncontrollable alcoholics. As a functional alcoholic (for how long?) I can find empathy in that sort of dilemma.

lol, 'functioning alcoholic'... I guess I'm probably one of those as well.

But really, it's just a clever little phase for a full blown addict that caught a few lucky breaks.

See, I do my 8 hours a day and even own a home, but truth is, somewhere down the line I got lucky... I'm under no delusion that I'm somehow superior to the toothless meth head begging for change outside the bottle shop.

Truth be told, every single one of us are vulnerable catching a bad run in life and ending up at rock bottom.

There's no easy solution either, or any set of rules that could solve the problem... Some people get lucky and can thrive though life, or atleast just hold it together... others just cope a really bad hand and a doomed to fail.

Such is life.

"But really, it's just a clever little phase for a full blown addict that caught a few lucky breaks."

At my age and observing all that I have, I have to disagree. I have seen people with every break possible falter and destroy themselves (and sometimes their families as well). My idea is that if you give certain people baby steps to understand that work is the way to being responsible then if they take that step they might start understanding how things actually work.

I had no lucky breaks. My family was always of the opinion that I needed to pull myself up out of any miasma that I had dragged myself into. On the other hand, once I did start being responsible they did help me in little ways here and there. That might sound cruel, but now that I can look back at it all - it makes total sense. The lack of altruism is what made me realize that I needed to get ahead myself and not rely on anyone else.

However a bum is a different story, everyone they knew has given up on them. Maybe after a year or so of not freezing at night and not starving, through their own effort, they might start to see the light that work is a sort of freedom.

You can lead a horse ("bums") to water- as your advocating.

You can't make it drink (your rules/cells/government social workers ).


You've " been around long enough ".

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: Fools

I realized the other day that our suburban Chicago "bums" are higher caliber than those we see in California. Most of them have cars...and live in them.

That would be the difference between "bums" and homeless.
Despite any urban description/myths.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
After free meal and free bed. Free meal, and free bed, and free meal, and free bed, After free meal and free bed. Free meal, and free bed, and free meal, and free bed, After free meal and free bed. Free meal, and free bed, and free meal, and free bed, After free meal and free bed. Free meal, and free bed, and free meal, and free bed, After free meal and free bed. Free meal, and free bed, and free meal, and free bed...


Does your money dry up and you’re begging for government assistance to provide for your private assistance?

Did you not read past the OP first paragraph? ?????????

originally posted by: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan
a reply to: Fools

You know absolutely NOTHING about what a bum is, or what a homeless person is. You wont solve any problems, so please leave those poor people alone, they have a hard enough life, without some mindless drone with a "solution" tries to destroy their lifes any further.

If you want to make any real changes, you should take a look at the society, that creates those bums as you call them. Many of those people DONT want to join society, because it is rotten to the core!

EDIT: I never heard of anybody that would accept "help" from somebody who looks down at them. If you really want to help, you need to climb down from your pedistal first..

Bingo, bingo,bingo, bingo, bingo, bingo, bingo. Oh wise one. 100% spot on.

Someone who actually whole heartedly gets it. And here i was thinking I'm on my lonesome once again.

a reply to: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan


Ps : this is not just about the needy, it is fundamental to society's enlightenment and humanities survival.

well from my limited expirence living with the "bums" as yall call them is,

Bums don't see being a Bum as a problem, YOU may, but they do not.

My Uncle is a professional bum, he LIKES not having a job, or a house, or paying Taxes

He is PROUD he can live in the woods for decades, he IS mentally ill (IMO)

He took care of my blind father for 4 years until his past caught up with him.

My father has a 5 bedroom house, that is paid off and my father is wealthy in his savings

My uncle would leave the doors open with the AC, bugs in the house, drunk and falling down he would damage the house.

he was terrible to my father, never respected boundries.

My father helped him get Social security, not much but some monies each month, My uncle never said thank you.

My uncle is an a-hole and proud of that too, and is not shy about saying so.

I heard a quote when I was young, not sure who said it first but it was

"you cannot save the world if the world doesn't want to be saved"

originally posted by: thedigirati
well from my limited expirence living with the "bums" as yall call them is,

Bums don't see being a Bum as a problem, YOU may, but they do not.

My Uncle is a professional bum, he LIKES not having a job, or a house, or paying Taxes

He is PROUD he can live in the woods for decades, he IS mentally ill (IMO)

He took care of my blind father for 4 years until his past caught up with him.

My father has a 5 bedroom house, that is paid off and my father is wealthy in his savings

My uncle would leave the doors open with the AC, bugs in the house, drunk and falling down he would damage the house.

he was terrible to my father, never respected boundries.

My father helped him get Social security, not much but some monies each month, My uncle never said thank you.

My uncle is an a-hole and proud of that too, and is not shy about saying so.

I heard a quote when I was young, not sure who said it first but it was

"you cannot save the world if the world doesn't want to be saved"

Very true - but here's another for you----

you can't judge all by the actions of one. They all want to be saved just not by the current model.

a reply to: CthruU

right, I guess I should have added I was homeless myself 3 times before my uncle started living with my widowed father.

My uncle was NOT my only expirence, I've stayed at shelters both in Michigan and Texas, (Michigan helps you get out, Texas, not so much)

but same thinng, most "Bums" don't want help,other than food, do not confuse homeless with bums, they are different critters.

Most homeless want to get back in a home as quickly as possible.

All it takes is a bit of effort, bums refuse to put forth the effort.

(I'm very good at finding work at failing business', each time I was homeless the company I worked for went out of business abruptly)

originally posted by: thedigirati
a reply to: CthruU

right, I guess I should have added I was homeless myself 3 times before my uncle started living with my widowed father.

My uncle was NOT my only expirence, I've stayed at shelters both in Michigan and Texas, (Michigan helps you get out, Texas, not so much)

but same thinng, most "Bums" don't want help,other than food, do not confuse homeless with bums, they are different critters.

Most homeless want to get back in a home as quickly as possible.

All it takes is a bit of effort, bums refuse to put forth the effort.

(I'm very good at finding work at failing business', each time I was homeless the company I worked for went out of business abruptly)

No argument here - refer my reply to carewemust?

"Bums refuse to put forth the effort" - refer my reply NoFearsEqualsFreeMan? @0658.
Why would they?

This is alot deeper than just people on the streets or people down and out temporarily -

I've got a different idea...

I think we should create a Bum Army. Not the US Army (they're not bums), but an alternate, Bum Army.

If you're a bum, you're automatically enlisted, and the first time you get caught 'bumming' you go to Bum Boot Camp (BBC).

At BBC you have Drill Instructors just like any other branch of service, you get up at 4am with people hollering and screaming in your face. You make your bed and report to PT. Then there's 12-14 hours of drills, marching and people screaming in your face. You can't quit, and you can't washout. The only way you can go back to being a bum is by completing your service in the Bum Army.

After BBC you go to Advanced Bum Camp (ABC). Here they teach you usable skills like building stuff. It's that, or digging holes and filling them back in again. They have ranks just like the regular Army. So you can be a Bum 1st Class, or a Bum Specialist, or a Bum Sergeant. If you can pass Bum Officer Candidate School (BOCS), you can become a Bum Officer, like a Bum Lieutenant, or a Bum Captain. OR...you can also go into the Bum Special Forces (BSF). OR..or..or...you can even become a "Bum Ranger"!! (sorry, I just had to put that one in there!)

After ABC and/or BOCS, everyone (well, everyone except the Bum Rangers) goes on active duty. Active duty consists of using your skills to clean after all the bums on the street who aren't in the Bum Army yet. You also help build shelters and kitchens where other bums can sleep and eat, but if they make a mess or screw up...**BAM!**...right into Bum Boot Camp (BBC) they go! In return for your service you get paid, yes real money and a reasonable wage, but you don't get any of it until you finish your first tour of active duty. Before this, the money is all kept in an account for you. During your active duty you get "3 hots and a cot" (i.e. 3 hot meals and a bed to sleep in, under a roof).

A tour of duty is 24 months. After your tour of duty you can re-enlist, or be honorably discharged complete with a BD-214. You also get your pay which has been in an account earning interest. After this you are free to go and do whatever you want. You can even go back to being a bum if you want. Just remember, if you get caught 'bumming' or doing bum-esque things...**BAM**...right back into Bum Boot Camp!

So, there you have it. The Bum Army.

ETA - Oh, and the Bum Army slogan? ... Be All You Should Have Been - Bum Army

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
I've got a different idea...

I think we should create a Bum Army. Not the US Army (they're not bums), but an alternate, Bum Army.

If you're a bum, you're automatically enlisted, and the first time you get caught 'bumming' you go to Bum Boot Camp (BBC).

At BBC you have Drill Instructors just like any other branch of service, you get up at 4am with people hollering and screaming in your face. You make your bed and report to PT. Then there's 12-14 hours of drills, marching and people screaming in your face. You can't quit, and you can't washout. The only way you can go back to being a bum is by completing your service in the Bum Army.

After BBC you go to Advanced Bum Camp (ABC). Here they teach you usable skills like building stuff. It's that, or digging holes and filling them back in again. They have ranks just like the regular Army. So you can be a Bum 1st Class, or a Bum Specialist, or a Bum Sergeant. If you can pass Bum Officer Candidate School (BOCS), you can become a Bum Officer, like a Bum Lieutenant, or a Bum Captain. OR...you can also go into the Bum Special Forces (BSF). OR..or..or...you can even become a "Bum Ranger"!! (sorry, I just had to put that one in there!)

After ABC and/or BOCS, everyone (well, everyone except the Bum Rangers) goes on active duty. Active duty consists of using your skills to clean after all the bums on the street who aren't in the Bum Army yet. You also help build shelters and kitchens where other bums can sleep and eat, but if they make a mess or screw up...**BAM!**...right into Bum Boot Camp (BBC) they go! In return for your service you get paid, yes real money and a reasonable wage, but you don't get any of it until you finish your first tour of active duty. Before this, the money is all kept in an account for you. During your active duty you get "3 hots and a cot" (i.e. 3 hot meals and a bed to sleep in, under a roof).

A tour of duty is 24 months. After your tour of duty you can re-enlist, or be honorably discharged complete with a BD-214. You also get your pay which has been in an account earning interest. After this you are free to go and do whatever you want. You can even go back to being a bum if you want. Just remember, if you get caught 'bumming' or doing bum-esque things...**BAM**...right back into Bum Boot Camp!

So, there you have it.

Noble - ish to a very small degree.

End of day- 1: Still forcing the will of the system. - Not going to alter state of mind in vast majority.
2 : They will reject 12/14 hour drills/screaming etc. - what then??
3 : Only going to force them underground instead of in plain site - thats how revolutions start
4 : Have another try. - same current system trying to hide its spots.

What's the definition of insanity? Repeating the same thing over and over but expecting a different outcome.

a reply to: CthruU

1. Never know until you try.

2. Oh, trust me; these Drill Instructors are good! You won't quit...they won't let you.

3. A Bum Revolution? Novel concept!

4. Same as what current system? What system? There is no system.

And yes, I am aware of Einstein's definition of insanity.

While my post was perhaps a little tongue and cheek, a peer system of rehabilitation where you teach people to help other people who started in a similar place is one of the most effective of all. And this is proven.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: CthruU

While my post was perhaps a little tongue and cheek, a peer system of rehabilitation where you teach people to help other people who started in a similar place is one of the most effective of all. And this is proven.

Giving back what’s been given to you. You got to give it away to keep it.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: CthruU

1. Never know until you try.

2. Oh, trust me; these Drill Instructors are good! You won't quit...they won't let you.

3. A Bum Revolution? Novel concept!

4. Same as what current system? What system? There is no system.

And yes, I am aware of Einstein's definition of insanity.

While my post was perhaps a little tongue and cheek, a peer system of rehabilitation where you teach people to help other people who started in a similar place is one of the most effective of all. And this is proven.

Don't get me wrong,

1 : hmmmmm

2: drill instructor/tax man/social worker/authoritive figure - common denominator?

3: its only a paycheck away for most apparently? ???????

4: the system they bow out of and refuse to support- come on now.

No hard feelins ok.

As long people give these people money on the street.. they will always be there.
People think they are doing good for these people, but they just help them to stay in their situation.
No need to be a part of society when you can get money for free.

originally posted by: thedigirati
well from my limited expirence living with the "bums" as yall call them is,

Bums don't see being a Bum as a problem, YOU may, but they do not.

My Uncle is a professional bum, he LIKES not having a job, or a house, or paying Taxes

He is PROUD he can live in the woods for decades, he IS mentally ill (IMO)

He took care of my blind father for 4 years until his past caught up with him.

My father has a 5 bedroom house, that is paid off and my father is wealthy in his savings

My uncle would leave the doors open with the AC, bugs in the house, drunk and falling down he would damage the house.

he was terrible to my father, never respected boundries.

My father helped him get Social security, not much but some monies each month, My uncle never said thank you.

My uncle is an a-hole and proud of that too, and is not shy about saying so.

I heard a quote when I was young, not sure who said it first but it was

"you cannot save the world if the world doesn't want to be saved"

That is why I think my system would work. It would allow the assholes to be assholes as long as they are willing to work say 12 to 14 hours a week. Any other time they can be #faced and selfish as they'd like. With exception to when they are locked up for sleep after midnight. But still, they can still drink and be idiots then as well. As long as they show up for work the next day. For 4 hours. That isn't much.

Anyway there were some issues with the government getting involved. I have 2 reasons for doing that. One reason is that allowing the government control certain aspects of things makes law suits harder. And 2, I would expect to have private therapist on site for any initial contact. They would have to be paid well (remember, in my scenario I am a billionaire) but any threat to life or criminal issues would have to be pushed in that direction to avoid legal issues.

Anyway, I hope to comment more soon - just having a busy honey doo weekend.