Good News! Bernie Sanders Knows Where the Division Is Coming From

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: chr0naut

We are? I know plenty of people who own guns, and I know zero people who've ever been shot.

As for the rioting thing, I'm not the one pointing to other countries and claiming they are far, far happier and without issues because they are socialist.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not the worst, but right up there.

You do know they count suicide by firearm in those stats? That does tend to inflate things. You also know that most violent deaths by firearms happen in a few cities in a few small areas inside those cities, right? Remove those areas, and our death by firearms rate drops to compare favorably with most countries who ban them.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: chr0naut

We are? I know plenty of people who own guns, and I know zero people who've ever been shot.

As for the rioting thing, I'm not the one pointing to other countries and claiming they are far, far happier and without issues because they are socialist.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not the worst, but right up there.

You do know they count suicide by firearm in those stats? That does tend to inflate things. You also know that most violent deaths by firearms happen in a few cities in a few small areas inside those cities, right? Remove those areas, and our death by firearms rate drops to compare favorably with most countries who ban them.

Absolutely the stats include suicide by firearm (my original comment was that "you guys are dropping from gunshot wounds all the time" and suicide falls under that category), but even removing accidental shootings and suicides, the US stats are bad.

The Wikipedia link I gave before has the types of death nicely separated by column so you can verify purely on homicide numbers alone.

a reply to: chr0naut

Japan has some of the most restrictive gun laws concerning developed nations, and one of the highest suicide rates. Stop confusing rate of suicide with preferred method of suicide.

www.who.int...

Methods of suicide: international suicide patterns derived from the WHO mortality database

Jumping from a height (designated as falls in the figures) plays an important role in small, predominantly urban societies such as Hong Kong SAR, Luxembourg and Malta. In contrast, in rural Latin American countries (e.g. El Salvador, Nicaragua and Peru), Asian countries (e.g. the Republic of Korea and Thailand) and also in Portugal, poisoning with pesticides was a major problem, notably among women. Poisoning with drugs was common in women from Canada, the Nordic countries and the United Kingdom. It also played an important role in male suicide in these countries.

a reply to: chr0naut

Why is it so bad to kill yourself by gun over simply killing yourself some other way?

And why dodge my second point that most of the gun deaths in this country are confined to a few major cities, and even then, a few specific areas in those major cities? Remove them, and our stats compare favorably with many other nations who ban guns.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: chr0naut

Japan has some of the most restrictive gun laws concerning developed nations, and one of the highest suicide rates. Stop confusing rate of suicide with preferred method of suicide.

www.who.int...

Methods of suicide: international suicide patterns derived from the WHO mortality database

Jumping from a height (designated as falls in the figures) plays an important role in small, predominantly urban societies such as Hong Kong SAR, Luxembourg and Malta. In contrast, in rural Latin American countries (e.g. El Salvador, Nicaragua and Peru), Asian countries (e.g. the Republic of Korea and Thailand) and also in Portugal, poisoning with pesticides was a major problem, notably among women. Poisoning with drugs was common in women from Canada, the Nordic countries and the United Kingdom. It also played an important role in male suicide in these countries.

How is jumping from a height or poisoning, etc. in any way related to gun deaths?

I wasn't confusing all suicide with suicide by firearm. The figures quoted were only firearm related and I clearly spoke of suicide by firearm.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: chr0naut

Why is it so bad to kill yourself by gun over simply killing yourself some other way?

And why dodge my second point that most of the gun deaths in this country are confined to a few major cities, and even then, a few specific areas in those major cities? Remove them, and our stats compare favorably with many other nations who ban guns.

I wasn't advocating suicide. I was discussing deaths by firearm.

You, personally, have entirely omitted any figures about deaths by origami! How lax.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: chr0naut

Why is it so bad to kill yourself by gun over simply killing yourself some other way?

And why dodge my second point that most of the gun deaths in this country are confined to a few major cities, and even then, a few specific areas in those major cities? Remove them, and our stats compare favorably with many other nations who ban guns.

I wasn't advocating suicide. I was discussing deaths by firearm.

You, personally, have entirely omitted any figures about deaths by origami! How lax.

Nice rant. Can you address the issues of confusing suicide rate vs preferred means of suicide often set by local culture?

Bernie is absolutely right. The game is to vote Democratic or Republican, and for whom the parties want to install as the official candidate. From there, it is incremental politics, taking a little bit away at a time both with rights and wealth. Throw the masses a bone from time to time to give them hope. Continually misdirect, obfuscate, omit, and just plainly lie along the way to ensure the American dream stays a fantasy in their minds. This has gone on in a big way for about 4 decades, ever since Reagan took office. Don't believe me? Look at the rights you and how the law has changed since. The look at the average family income then relative to the cost of living and look at it now. That's all you need to see how the game does not serve you, but there is much, much more evidence if you want to dig deeper. But you'll just make yourself miserable if you believe America is anywhere near great today or the system serves the people well. Bottom line, America needs bold action and strong leadership to break the trend that exists today; and more incremental politics is going to do nothing but give you more of the same. Why do want that if you are not the one percent?

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: chr0naut

Why is it so bad to kill yourself by gun over simply killing yourself some other way?

And why dodge my second point that most of the gun deaths in this country are confined to a few major cities, and even then, a few specific areas in those major cities? Remove them, and our stats compare favorably with many other nations who ban guns.

I wasn't advocating suicide. I was discussing deaths by firearm.

You, personally, have entirely omitted any figures about deaths by origami! How lax.

Nice rant. Can you address the issues of confusing suicide rate vs preferred means of suicide often set by local culture?

I was talking about gun deaths. Someone else responded that those figures included gun deaths by suicide.

Neither of us were talking about death by macrame.

a reply to: chr0naut

No. What you are trying to push is suicide rates in the USA are dependent on gun availability which is false. Suicide rates as shown by Japan are not dependent upon gun availability. Again. You are confusing suicide rate vs preferred method of suicide to create a falsehood.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: chr0naut

No. What you are trying to push is suicide rates in the USA are dependent on gun availability which is false. Suicide rates as shown by Japan are not dependent upon gun availability. Again. You are confusing suicide rate vs preferred method of suicide to create a falsehood.

Thank you for telling me what I was saying because obviously I didn't know.



Also, please look back through the thread posts in sequence and you will find that you are quite incorrect.

I posted this, and then ketsuko replied with this, then I replied with this, then ketsuko replied with this, then I replied with this, then you started on about unrelated suicides that weren't from gun deaths in Japan.

Right from the start, ketsuko & I were specifically talking abut gun deaths (which would be from all causes), not non-gun suicides.

I was specifically doing so because there are lots of gun deaths (for all reasons) in the US and equating that with the 2nd amendment which purportedly says that everyone can carry firearms with impunity and without legal consequence.

No amount of suicide by swallowing house bricks is enough of an excuse for the specific 'death by firearm' figures.

a reply to: chr0naut

Whatever dude....,,,

Good luck to ya