Illegal aliens!!

na man. We shouldnt shut nothing down man. Let me put it this way, so lets say that before ur dad came over to good ol' US of A the Mexicans already here were thinking what you are thinking right now and they somehow blocked the border for good.They say to just let them handle their own problems. Wouldnt it suck to live over there knowing u cannot come here? Imagine everything you have, gone. Knowing your children will also suffer the same fate. Just imagine living in poverty, not the kind of poverty like in this country, but real poverty. It would suck wouldnt it? I beieve that if they have the balls to come over then just let em. If they can cross the border and deal with everything, then dammit they deserve living here working that hard.

But do you know why it is hard for the Latin American countries to develop? Wanna take a guess? Is it cus they are lazy? too stupid? too corrupted? Well yes a lil cus they corrupted. But na, mostly cus of the USA. Ever heard of the IMF or the World Banks? Well read up on them. It is to the corporations benefit to have poor,poor countries. Why you ask? Well simply because the poorer the country, the lower the wages. Rebel you say? A couple of g's will take care of those people. Just don't work? Ok then starve. Corporations have these countries in a cycle that never ends. Add to that that the rich of the country could care less for the poor, and you have got yourself in quite a situation. Thats why they come to the US, where theres money to be made and better lives to be had.

esse--Que es eso--vedga en tu boca? Y porgue no, en tu culo. when my dad came over they weren't going any further than 150 miles from the border and there were sustainable numbers. Today they're unsustainable, and they stretch from Brownsville to Main and they've lowered the wage structure in every industry, in every town between, to the point Americans can no longer look forward to a middle class existance.

I don't know what the answer is but it has to be found in Mexico. Vicente proved he didn't care so it's time for the people to try something else. Revolution shouldn't be out of the question. It's already started in the mountains and it needs to spread to the cities. Burn the place down and the world will helpyou put it back together. Maybe better. But believe me, the welcome mat is no longer there and it wasn't just the whites that are closing the door. Hispanics, asians and every other ethnic North American want to save our existance as it was. It's a sign of the times.

You're right about the world bank and the corporations. The corporations are trying to do it here. Bush wants illegals here to accomplish just that. And it was working, but now the people are startingf to revolt against the onslaught of illegals eating up what used to be good paying jobs. What little that is happening now is because of the people, not the politicians. But we can see what lie ahead if things continue the way they have.



[edit on 3-5-2005 by kazi]

[edit on 3-5-2005 by kazi]

Originally posted by vergaentuboca


But do you know why it is hard for the Latin American countries to develop? Wanna take a guess? Is it cus they are lazy? too stupid? too corrupted? Well yes a lil cus they corrupted. But na, mostly cus of the USA. Ever heard of the IMF or the World Banks? Well read up on them. It is to the corporations benefit to have poor,poor countries. Why you ask? Well simply because the poorer the country, the lower the wages. Rebel you say? A couple of g's will take care of those people. Just don't work? Ok then starve. Corporations have these countries in a cycle that never ends. Add to that that the rich of the country could care less for the poor, and you have got yourself in quite a situation. Thats why they come to the US, where theres money to be made and better lives to be had.

Mate if i could vote you for WATS i would... but this is BTS and i cant...

The reality of it is, it is the corporations that keep these countries from developing. They keep the wages low, and use the countries resources, not for the countries benefit, but to the benefit of the corporation... Ok so this is globalisation, its the way the world is nowadays right? One global village?

Well newsflash! You cant call globalisation when it means the richer countries reap the benefits, then close yourself off when the people from the poorer countries want to wander around this 'global village' and live in countries that are taking the wealth form their homelands. That is Hypocrisy in its finest... just another example of the hypocritical world we all live in these days.

You cant take advantage of their cheap labour and rape their country for its resources, then complain when the people want to come live in your country and take advantage of the wealth their people helped to generate. Sure some might not pay taxes... but corporations are notorious for dodging taxes in third world countries... in fact they dodge taxes in any country they're in.

Originally posted by specialasianX

Mate if i could vote you for WATS i would... but this is BTS and i cant...

The reality of it is, it is the corporations that keep these countries from developing. They keep the wages low, and use the countries resources, not for the countries benefit, but to the benefit of the corporation... Ok so this is globalisation, its the way the world is nowadays right? One global village?

Well newsflash! You cant call globalisation when it means the richer countries reap the benefits, then close yourself off when the people from the poorer countries want to wander around this 'global village' and live in countries that are taking the wealth form their homelands. That is Hypocrisy in its finest... just another example of the hypocritical world we all live in these days.

You cant take advantage of their cheap labour and rape their country for its resources, then complain when the people want to come live in your country and take advantage of the wealth their people helped to generate. Sure some might not pay taxes... but corporations are notorious for dodging taxes in third world countries... in fact they dodge taxes in any country they're in.

Well are you agreeing with me or.....? lol. Well yea your right, but wut you say is kind of confusing but anyways......on to that other guy. Well yea these people need a revolution to save themselves from this misery. But a revolution cannot start with the corporations in there.....know why? Because once these people start an uprising, any kind of uprising, even a strike, the corporatons will get scared of losing profit. So what do they do? They call upon the country's military to handle it, very brutally i might add. And if they cant do it, guess who they call? Thas right, the good ol' US of A. These corporations own the military anywayz, i mean # we are using the military right now in Iraq so the corporations can get mo' mothaducken MonaY!! An easy example that everyone knows best is probably the one where the Iraqui (sp?) people revolted against Sadaam Hussein and guess who helped stop the revolt? Ill give you a hint, it starts with a U and ends with an A and also includes an S. Well anyways, as i was saying.....the corporations call upon the US to help "restore peace" to the country.

So that, ladies and gentlemen, is why the third world latin american countries cannot revolt. Caught in a loophole as i said before. And as my good friend said from above, they come to the US to get some of the wealth they helped to create, becuase afterall, without the poor working class where we be? Peaceful? Oh NO!!! Corporations cant have that. They wants the monay!!!

I think I have heard of one country where the poor working class all of a sudden one day decided to just get up and leave. So they left their homes and headed for the jungle, vowing not to stop till they reach new land to resettle. What happened to the upper class? lol well they all starved and died off. Of course not immediately but eventually. The upper class consisted of high preists and those types of things, so it must have been pretty old. I dont know what happened to the rest of the people, maybe they died off too who knows. So moral of the story, without a bottom there cannot be a top.

Ugh so finally, someone here said that the the immigrants drive down prices. Well dam didnt i just finish explaining that they usually take the low-paying jobs no one wants? Dam, so they drive down factory wages huh? Well guess what, that lowers prices. Unless your the person actually working, then its good for you lol. Well most of these corporations are moving out now anyways to exploit more people. Oh no! They are going to take away your office job! Dam them immigrants...... :shk: . Heh. I dont see wuts so bad about illegal immigrants. Everyone paints such a bad picture of them, but dam lol maybe its because i used to live in East LA (Los Angeles not louisiana), its practically Mexico in there. The thing i dont like though is how some people, mainly republicans, try to blame the illegal immigrants for a lot of bad chet that happens, like crime and no jobs, etc...
They like to paint the illegal immigrant as some kind of robber when in fact the real robbers are them. Dam sometimes i think this country needs a revolution, imagine? Man, it would change the world, but i don wanna get too deep into that.

Well verga--you and aisianx just keep patting your selves on the back for figuring it all out, but the only thing you have wrong is that this move to stop the immigrants is not a Republican, only, thing, it's a working man's thing. We are struggling to hold on to our middle class--nothing you'd know about where you came from---but were gonna fight, something all the mojados should have done long ago. Then maybe you'd have had middle class societies. And yes corporations did get rich off the sweat of lower classes before the middle class grew and even now, but we were successful in establishing that middle class and were going after the rich as well as the illegal immigrants. Our lifestyle is under attack so don't blame us, blame the friggin politicians in your backward countries. We'll take on our corrupt friggen politicians.

kazi wut the hell? Dude there IS NO middle class. Ive heard that 1% of this countries population holds over 49% of the wealth. That is friggin over half of the wealth of the country held by just over a few powerful people. I heard that statistic over a few years ago. I dont believe its been closing, i think its been widening. So when you are so happy you bought your new escalade or something, the rich are happy when they bought a new goddam country. They sleep and they wake up with millions made overnight.

And why do you gotta be so cruel to the illegal immigrants? dam dude they are people too. Stop thinking of them as criminals who come to steal ur so called "middle-class" and think of them as people here to better their own lives. But i know you dont care though huh? Yea just let the high class keep us down while they make billions. You are the typical American, you dont care about it if its not in the news. But thats how we are conditioned, only strong minds can get out of that mentality. Thats why we dont have any major changes no more. The ones that care are too few in number to really do anything. But if we do somehow manage to get on top, well unless we do what we wanta do quick, we gon get assassinated like JFK or MLK. But no the only person u care about is yourself right? Not only that but you gotta call us wetbacks and insult me in spanish? lol Alrigh man whatever.

Originally posted by W_O_W
TO HELL WITH ALL OF YOU RACIST

same here..kinda...I don't want to sound as cruel

Not all illegal aliens are bad.

I have no problem with people coming here legally! It's the illegals, who bring poverty, disease, and the sucking of our tax money. If you want to become a Legal Citizen and support this country....Hell I'll do everything to help you. But when you want to come here, take our money, send it back to Mexico or who knows where....well I can't stand by that. I'm not going to bust my A$$, pay my taxes so some illegal can go to school, get health benifits...etc. They are invading this country, and should be dealt with accordingly!!

Okay here is an idea. It can allow people to immigrate and capitalize on the reality TV craze

We set up a bunch of obstacles and cameras in the desert in all the paths that IA's take an we film them, the ones who cross the border get a nice check and a green card. and the ones who cant get across the obstacles get sent home.
We could call the show:Who wants to be an immigrant.

Just out of sheer curiosity (and admittedly, sheer disbelief at some of the irrational statements on this thread), how many posters actually understand the policies related to legal immigration in the US?

It'd probably help - if only for the sake of discussion - to understand at least some of the legal processes therein, and actually look at the numbers of illegal immigrants, and where they tend to originate.

Here is a nice little graph to start with.

Now, in terms of how to fix the problem? Start by allocating more money to the various Immigration departments. There simply isn't the budget or manpower needed to track every visitor to the US; and what some of you seem to be missing is the bit about many illegals actually entering the US legally - and then simply overstaying their visas/I-94 documents, which revolves around the same issue (that being, there just isn't the capability to track every non-resident).

"Shooting at the border" is simply the foolish sentiment of a knee-jerk reaction.

Try and view the problem logically, and then there'll be a markedly better chance of solving that problem logically.

Also: it seems that there's a misguided assumption that non-citizen = illegal alien. This is false. One can be a citizen, a legal permanent resident, a legal temporary resident, and various subcategories therein; it's not as black and white as "either citizen or illegal".

Nice point Tinkleflower.
You are correct that non-citizens does not equate to illegal aliens. My wife who is from Korea, lived in the US as a legal resident alien for 2 years. Then she decided to become a US citizen.
I do think that we need to get our goverment to finally step up and recognize the issue. For decades now, it has been ignored byt the federal goverment and in some ways, the illegal border crossings have even been supported by the US goverment. Look at Bush's initiatives in this area.
When you start to consider the amount of money that is lost every year, due to the free education that their children recieve, the free health care that they receive (and we pay for with higher insurance costs) at hospitals, the amount of money that is lost due to holding the ones that are convicted of crimes in the jail system, the costs to the individual citizen who have been victims of crimes commited by the illegal aliens, the victims of identity theft that is now being commited by illegals (due to the Bush Iniatives), the millions and millions of dollars that are sent back to the "home countries", etc etc ad-nauseum.
It is a wonder why the goverment has not listened to the call of the people. It is a wonder that after the recent minuteman project that the border patrol were order not to detain too many illegals as an attempt to dismiss the idea that the minutemen were successful in what they set out to do.
We need to start making the goverment sit up and listen. Maybe have the military start performing their exercises that they do already, in and around the border. Chastize Pres Fox for his support of the illegal crossings. Actually do something other than to sit there and watch it.
[Edited to correct spelling of Tinkleflower's name]

[edit on 14-6-2005 by kenshiro2012]

Ok. Legally, this is where we stand:

The children of illegal aliens are not entitled to free schooling, unless these children are born as citizens - if this is the case, then that child has the same rights (regardless of the status of its parents) as any other child born here.

The same goes for most other government aid programs, including healthcare, though it's more common to see illegals slipping through the gaps in that system than we see in the school system. It's a false assumption that there are millions of undocumented illegals "stealing" our resources.

Also, I'd like to ask for any evidence that illegals are somehow causing (and thus costing) an extraordinary amount of crime in the country; the same question in regards to identity theft. From what I can gather (there's a pretty good source here ), illegal aliens are the least of our worries in that area.

I'm not for a second undermining the reality that illegal immigration costs the nation (and every nation with the same problem) in terms of both manpower and resources; but I'd rather see some evidence before we start blaming 'em for things that aren't their fault.



.

Okay, Here are some sources that depict the cost that the illegal aliens are bringing to the federal goverment. Note, the numbers in the first link does not contain state, county, city costs:
Illegal Immigration and the Federal Budget


Border States Grapple With Alien Criminals

The secret list of ID theft victims

The following is a short list of ATS articles that cover this issue:
www.abovetopsecret.com...'

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Okay.... My wife's a LEGAL ALIEN and now a perm res of the USA. I was separated from her for 248 days, whilst her K-1 Visa was being run through the INS mill. Had she been a WHITE from Europe or Russia her K-1 Visa would have flown through the system in less than 60 days. Go figure! Anyway.... Let's be honest.... Illegals do the crap jobs no self-respecting white, black, asian, native american or any other flavor of USA citizen is going to do for slave wages ... er uh ... minimum wage (or less). Further, those who hire them know they can get more than their bucks worth of work out of them and not have to worry about the "benny's" and "security blankets" afforded to the American workers. I don't mind them coming over here, because they do the work no one else will, but ... I do want them tracked and some special restrictions applied to them, whilst they're here. What are we now? The third offending nation for pop growth and what? 60% of that growth comes from illegals giving birth here? NOT COOL!

[edit on 14-6-2005 by smadewell]

Originally posted by smadewell
Okay.... My wife's a LEGAL ALIEN and now a perm res of the USA. I was separated from her for 248 days, whilst her K-1 Visa was being run through the INS mill. Had she been a WHITE from Europe or Russia her K-1 Visa would have flown through the system in less than 60 days. Go figure! Anyway.... Let's be honest.... Illegals do the crap jobs no self-respecting white, black, asian, native american or any other flavor of USA citizen is going to do for slave wages ... er uh ... minimum wage (or less). Further, those who hire them know they can get more than their bucks worth of work out of them and not have to worry about the "benny's" and "security blankets" afforded to the American workers. I don't mind them coming over here, because they do the work no one else will, but ... I do want them tracked and some special restrictions applied to them, whilst they're here. What are we now? The third offending nation for pop growth and what? 60% of that growth comes from illegals giving birth here? NOT COOL!

[edit on 14-6-2005 by smadewell]

Steve, it's rough that you were seperated for so long; but don't be under the misconception that being white and/or European would have hurried along the application.

The K1 still takes 3-6 months in the fastest service centers.....when you're governed by the grossly overwhelmed centers, that time is extended, regardless of your last name. It really does depend on where you have to file....it'd be easier to claim otherwise, but there we have it.

(I'm also a legal immigrant - I volunteer locally at an immigrant resource center here, and we must see virtually every convoluted reason and excuse the INS has to offer. Trust me )

So...we've seen evidence that illegal immigration is a huge burden to the US's economy. With that in mind - how do we solve the issue?

Hint: It's not by standing at the borders with a shotgun.
:bnghd:

I agree Tinkleflower, It is extremely difficult to navigate through the maze commonly called INS. I went through that about 11 years ago. After spedning literally thousands of dollars between trips to the nearest INS office, toll calls that lead you in circles and on and on. I ended up finally calling and emailing the local senator and requesting that they launch a congressional investigation which representatives and congressmen are supposed to do when a military member requests such.
I had my wife's permanent visa in under 6 weeks. I know that is not something that most can call on to speed the process.
As for securing the borders, I am inclined to have the active duty and national guards perform this duty. I will have to add that the people who do protect the border do need to be armed though. You do have a number of drug runners, cayotes(however it is spelled) who are paid to assist the illegal crossings and of course the occasional "assistance" (read accidental) lent to the illegals by the Mexican police / military. So the guards do need to be armed.

Originally posted by TinkleflowerSteve, it's rough that you were seperated for so long; but don't be under the misconception that being white and/or European would have hurried along the application.

I don't know about that.... The guys who married the Russian gals my wife went through language classes together got their women folk a K-1 Visa in 1/3 (or better) the time it took mine to get her K-1 Visa. They used the same service center and we all applied within a year of each other (both pre- and post- 9/11). Just seems like they favor (or have better connections with the govts of) European white folk. Just an isolated observation on my part....

As to the illegal border question. Frankly, I don't mind them increasing the numbers of the migrant workforce. I just want them to be monitored and for them to go back after "X" amount of months. They are doing work nobody having to pay U.S. bills would do for those slave wages. Let 'em come and go, but ... legal like. I can't believe the PTBs couldn't fix it up to work that way.

Also, a mass birth control campagin in Mexico wouldn't hurt any. The love of money maybe the root of all evil, but poverty is its fruit! Poverty begats poverty. Why do people keep pumping out kids left and right if they can't enhance their own quality of life?

The poor people have a lot of children because they need one "special" one to get them out of poverty. Its like playing dice. If you dont get a smart one, then try again. lol Dam man, have you people read my posts? Or do you people just see "illegal aliens" then just post your reply without reading the other ones? i mean im the son of an illegal alien, and i dont see myself sucking up the funds of the government. I know wut ur going to say, "theres an exception to every rule" but haha whatever.

Havent you guys seen that lame movie "A Day Without a Mexican"? The movie sucked, but the concept was good. I truly believe without the illegal aliens, our economy would collapse, because there would be no one to do the "dirty" jobs, if u know wut i mean.

Think about it, our economy is like a pyramid. There are a WHOLE lot of dirt poor people on the bottom, but as u climb the pyramid there are less and less people, until you reach the top where theres only a few. Although this is an over-simplification of our society, my theory is that if there was no more poor people, there would be no one to do the jobs they do. Do you think a middle class American is going to want to pick strawberries or pick up horse fecies? Then the pyramid would collapse. In a capitalist society, there always has to be the "loser" the poor man and the "winner" the rich man. It is unchangeable.

If you want to keep living your comfortable American life, then be thankful we have poor people to do the work you dont wanna do. Well you can say that let the poor Americans do the work, but most of them are already accustomed to the American way of life, so they are lazy. All they wanna do is get the latest rimz for their new ride. haha but they still livin at their mommas house. But thats the way the American government wants you to be, because if generation after generation is not lazy and wants to learn, then we will have ourselves a revolution. Thats why usually the second generation doesnt do as much as the first generation, because they take everything for granted and have been accustomed to the American way of life. Does this make sense? cus its kind of hard to explain.

For the typical American, its cool to be stupid, its cool to be a bad boy, its cool to do stupid things, and being cool gets you the ladies. I think all of us here on ATS are not stupid or anything, (i THINK!) so maybe you guys also notice this? Well i dont know if it is the same in other areas, because i have always lived in and interacted with people of color. But the whiteboys i meet, dam most of them fit that American mindset so much......lol. But maybe some of you care to enlighten me?

(being a non-American also...but a legal alien)

Nah. I think it's unwise to make vast generalisations about a group of people.

"Most" of the Americans I've met are decent, caring humans.
Some are complete twits.

The same can be said for any particular group of Brits, French, Canadian, Norwegian, African, Indian or Asian people I've met.

For every 10 nontwits, there's at least 2 twits.

At least, that's my theory