Trump wants to increase tariffs On china again .

Well, if consumers aren't willing to pay the real price of construction, there isn't a very high demand for those trades, in truth, is there?

Artificially cheap labour and cheap loans worked together to create artificially high demand and "growth" which then unsurprisingly popped catastrophically for everyone. So I guess your plan (the consumers' plan? Whoever else you blame for exploitation?) is a success. You're a true free market hero.

a reply to: RadioRobert

The willingness to pay has to do with purchase power.

A free market allows anyone to work and an employer to hire anyone by the way.

I don't agree with that. But your arguement with yourself is quite redundant fallacious.

The biggest mistake you make is that employers are the cheaters. The illegals don't get paid much less. The employers don't pay taxes which is the problem.

But again you are stuck on a black and white definition so it will never be accurate. [

If businesses cannot afford legal labor and still turn a profit on construction, then the construction market is soft. When the end consumer has a high enough demand, they'll pay for construction with market wages. Cheating the market by illegally lowering cost is not a free market.

You must be a communist/socialist/whatever you're going to accuse people of next...

New Tariffs on china??? we eat mostly off of paper plates.

originally posted by: RadioRobert
If businesses cannot afford legal labor and still turn a profit on construction, then the construction market is soft. When the end consumer has a high enough demand, they'll pay for construction with market wages. Cheating the market by illegally lowering cost is not a free market.

You must be a communist/socialist/whatever you're going to accuse people of next...

Lol. That isn't how it works. Perhaps you need to read some Mises or Hayek on the free market theories of why labor moves to where the better work is.


Nobody lowered the wages. They created a system of money that fabricates the CPI with cheap imports to offset inflation for the poor. This has created a massive inflation dam that will break with your trade war.

The system is far more complicated than you are aware of.

For instance how are we being taken advantage of? We have the reserve currency. We print it out whenever we want and give china pieces of paper for goods...

originally posted by: RadioRobert
If businesses cannot afford legal labor and still turn a profit on construction, then the construction market is soft. When the end consumer has a high enough demand, they'll pay for construction with market wages. Cheating the market by illegally lowering cost is not a free market.

You must be a communist/socialist/whatever you're going to accuse people of next...

Businesses can afford the labor they just don't have it. This is why there are 300k jobs a month unfilled.

a reply to: luthier

Sorry, you said Consumers weren't willing to pay more for construction, and that businesses had to cheat the market with illegal labour, did you not?

How about we just quit doing the things that create a bubble..? Like trying to cheat the labour market.

Perhaps you need to read some Mises or Hayek on the free market theories of why labor moves to where the better work is. 

I don't have to read more Hayek to know that labour's price is determined by supply and demand, and that people who sell their labour have options. The best way to secure their labour is with dollars.

There are televisions available. You just don't want to pay retail for it. You'd prefer to buy the stolen televisions to maintain a margin, which hurts the labour pool.

If you should pay enough qualified people will become framers, carpenters, etc. People so inventivized will enter trade schools instead of universities in greater numbers. If people find competing markets for their labour more attractive, then you are going to have to pay them to choose to sell their labour to you.

You can invent as many excuses as you want to buy stolen televisions. It doesn't mean there is a shortage of televisions. It means you're not willing to pay those prices because illegal trade is cheaper and available.

So i see China are preparing to bite back.....and this one will hurt the US. Over 80% of the rare earth minerals used in the USA come from China - and China are about to turn off the supply.

Why is this so important? Well it isnt just smart phones and laptops, it is also satellites, nuclear reactors, etc.

Either a huge new source will need finding or Trump will have to fold if China carries out this threat - and that would be hugely embarrassing both domestically and internationally. The only other alternative would be war.

a reply to: Flavian

We have a strategic reserve, and our own mines: one open, a couple mothballed. Rare earths aren't rare. It is expensive and environmentally unfriendly. That's why we let China dig it out of the ground for us. They have cheap labour and don't care about their environment. Prices will rise while we and other countries like Australia, Malaysia, Myanmar, Vietnam, and *gasp* Russia have to deal with realigning the market and possibly expanding production, but this won't be the end of the world either.
It is always doom porn while the companies who own the media try to protect their gravy train.

"Wants to" is a lot different than "will".

a reply to: RadioRobert

You haven't the slightest idea what you are talking about.

You base every opinion you have on some kind of moral code you believe the market has or should have. While having no idea how it actually runs and works. You have no idea how bad inflation really is once the CPI is adjusted for a trade war.

You have no idea what happens when cascades of consumer withdrawal effects over extended credit in business they based on market growth speculation.

You have no idea how the cascade effects unemployment, suicide, crime, drug use etc..

Your grasp of economics is completely based on fantasy of creating a moral market from your personal belief. The worst part of your predictions is they have absolutely no basis of history to go on, in fact have the opposite references.

originally posted by: RadioRobert
a reply to: luthier

Sorry, you said Consumers weren't willing to pay more for construction, and that businesses had to cheat the market with illegal labour, did you not?

How about we just quit doing the things that create a bubble..? Like trying to cheat the labour market.

Perhaps you need to read some Mises or Hayek on the free market theories of why labor moves to where the better work is. 

I don't have to read more Hayek to know that labour's price is determined by supply and demand, and that people who sell their labour have options. The best way to secure their labour is with dollars.

There are televisions available. You just don't want to pay retail for it. You'd prefer to buy the stolen televisions to maintain a margin, which hurts the labour pool.

If you should pay enough qualified people will become framers, carpenters, etc. People so inventivized will enter trade schools instead of universities in greater numbers. If people find competing markets for their labour more attractive, then you are going to have to pay them to choose to sell their labour to you.

You can invent as many excuses as you want to buy stolen televisions. It doesn't mean there is a shortage of televisions. It means you're not willing to pay those prices because illegal trade is cheaper and available.

It turns out you have such a basic grasp of economics you can't even admit your theory is false.


The cost of labor is not controlled by a sole factor like supply and demand. This is literally why very high paid positions in many areas across the economy stay vacant.


Lol there are literally hundreds of factors from regulation to propaganda that effect employment numbers and cost of labor.

Did you also forget our competitors can enjoy cheaper supply lines?

Lol

I'm sorry, we already discussed that there are multiple factors to the cost of labour. That's why it can be depressed by illegal labour and still be climbing, right? You're the one pretending that supply and demand is not a factor and inventing a shortage where one does not exist to maintain your fictions. You're the one who either did not understand or deliberately made misleading statements about what "artificially depressed" means...

Whatever you have to invent to justify exploiting vulnerable people and breaking the law, I guess. Another empty ad hom is probably the answer, I'm sure.

a reply to: RadioRobert

There were no ad homs. They were true about your arguement.

Supply and demand is a very simple and false way to argue the reason for black market labor. That is the truth. All of your responses rely on a very outdated understanding of economics. Which obviously make no sense when analyzing a situation where employers are able to hold wages down. You have bits and pieces of the arguement but have no cohesive way to understand why it's happening because your sole intention is to not loose.

You can't answer true or false questions because they would make you concede your point was not accurate.

Lastly all economists prepare for the WORST CASE SCENARIO who have any morality at all.

You are willing to gamble the lives and jobs of millions of people. Chance a boom in suicides, addiction, crime for a very small return.

I understand you feel like altering the market this drastically makes sense. I just think it's not probable based on the reality we actually live in and the history of economics.

a reply to: luthier

Yes, I've heard you repeatedly try to insinuate that labour is completely divorced from supply and demand. That and repeatedly talking down to anyone who dares disagree with you says more about the quality of your argument than anything else. Probably why we keep ending up there.


We can't fix try to fix the economy or stop exploiting vulnerable people because some other people might be negatively impacted is quite the pretzel logic as well...

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: dubiousatworst
This is amazing trump has turned conservatives into communist protectionists.
Yeah china is doing well. They dont have a free market. They have one where the government controls every aspect of society.
My lord.

Monday, August 26, 2019

CHINA says it's now ready to end the trade war.

China signaled on Monday it was now seeking a "calm" end to its ongoing trade war with the U.S., as Asian markets crumbled and China's currency plummeted to an 11-year low following the latest tariffs on $550 billion in Chinese goods announced last Friday by the Trump administration.

News of the possible opening in negotiations came shortly after President Trump threatened to declare a national emergency that would result in American businesses freezing their relationships with China. Trump's tariff barrage on Friday was a response to China imposing its own retaliatory tariffs on $75 billion in U.S. goods.

Source: www.foxnews.com...

Democrats and 90% of U.S. Media: "How can we pretend this isn't happening?! We need a recession before Nov 2020!"

TRUMP!