Military Coup underway in Venezuela

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
BTW, perhaps it would help you if you put your thinking cap for a moment. If the dictatorship of Maduro had the loyalty of all their fit for duty armed forces, which are supposedly 128,000, then why in the world do they need 20,000 Cuban forces?... If the majority of the regular people were okay withe what is happening in Venezuela, why do they need to arm 400,000 Chavistas who are civilians?...

Did I say Maduro has the loyalty of all their armed forces?

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
So, let me ask you a few questions. Did the U.S. military kill thousands of Portuguese people? Did they kill any civilians? Did they go through your streets and beat to a pulp thousands of protesters?...

No, why do you ask?

Are you talking about the Carnation Revolution?

Yes.

After your country had assassinated Amílcar Cabral, and your country fought to keep Guinea and black people subservient to your country?

Yes, one of the reasons of the Carnation Revolution was to end the colonial era that kept all black people in the colonies (Cape Verde, Angola, Mozambique and St. Tomé and Principe, not just Guinea Bissau) under a de facto apartheid. Amilcar Cabral was just one of the victims, some direct some collateral. The dictatorship didn't have any problems killing people (as they usually do), including a general that was going to run for the presidency, in the same way the (clandestine) opposition forces didn't have any problem killing their own when they thought they were betraying them.

originally posted by: ArMaP

That's what you think.

It's not what I think, it's what I know. Chavez himself stated that Venezuelans should look at how Cubans lived because that's was what would be adopted by Venezuela. He stated that fidel castro was his mentor.

Here, directly from the news station controlled by Maduro/Chavistas.

...Maduro honored the Comandante — as Fidel is known in Cuba and among his supporters in Latin America — by saying Saturday at the memorial he “was and will continue to be a living legend for all he did and still has to do,” suggesting that the political movements like Venezuela’s 21st Century socialism carry the torch of Fidel’s revolutionary struggle.
...

Venezuela Honors Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez's Friend and Mentor

Maduro is using the same tactics used by the castro brothers, and those tactics INCLUDE the disarmament of soldiers who would not swear loyalty to Maduro.

originally posted by: ArMaP
You do not know what I know, and my comment was about you apparently ignoring the size of the Venezuelan army, not about anything else, much less about your personal life.

You are from Portugal, you seem to be socialist or communist since your father seems to have been, and you seem to believe that the dictatorship of Maduro has the backing of a majority of the people in Venezuela, or a majority of the military, which is false.

originally posted by: ArMaP
No, I'm not.

Yes you are... You are also ignoring the FACT that information in Venezuela is very controlled since Chavez and Maduro shut down ALL independent news channels, independent radio stations, or radio stations considered "from the right," etc, etc.

originally posted by: ArMaP
That's why I was talking about the size of the Venezuelan armed forces, 25,000 Cubans are not a large percentage of the 350,000 men on the armed forces.

They have about 180,000 soldiers, but you still ignore the fact that only those who would swear loyalty to Maduro would be armed... It is what socialist/communist dictators ALWAYS do, and Venezuela is no different.

originally posted by: ArMaP
And why do they do it? In the cases I know from the Portuguese dictatorship, it was because they had or were expecting some special treatment from the dictatorship, and that's why I think information is the best weapon to fight a dictatorship.

Many do it out of fear... and again, IF Maduro has the loyalty of all, or a majority of the 180,000 soldiers, why does he need to arm 400,000 CIVILIANS who are Chavistas and swore loyalty to him? 180,000 trained soldiers are better trained than 400,000 civilians with no training.

originally posted by: ArMaP
I'm ignoring nothing, and my intention wasn't to insult you, I only wanted to say that your guess was just a guess, as the facts you use to support it are not relevant for that specific case.
If I ever want to insult you nobody will have any doubts about it.

Really?... Let's see... Was fidel castro a mentor to Chavez yes or no? Yes he was.
There are videos on the internet of Venezuelan politicians pointing out that there were CUBAN politicians in their parliament setting policies for Venezuela...

Not to mention the FACT that the Venezuelan National Assembly had to pass a law to get rid of the Cuban politicians that Chavez inserted in Venezuela's National Assembly.

I can't find the videos in English, as they are only in Spanish as far as I can tell.

But here is a translated news report supporting the FACT that Cubans were being infiltrated in Venezuela to follow the Cuban model despite Chavez once saying he wasn't going to do that.

They denounce arrival to Venezuela of a Cuban agent as head of "infiltration and persecution"

"The armed forces of Venezuela are mined by Cuban officials who carry out repression and even interrogations and torture"

MIAMI, United States .- The Deputy of the National Assembly of Venezuela, Julio Borges, reported the arrival in Venezuela of a new Cuban official to lead repressive actions in the South American country. This individual would be a Castro official, sent to Caracas with the objective of controlling the Armed Forces and the democratic factors that oppose the regime of Nicolás Maduro.

"I denounce that the Cuban official, Asdruval De La Vega Orellana, is the new head of infiltration and persecution in Venezuela," Borges wrote on his Twitter account.
...

Link

Original link.

www.cubanet.org...

Likewise Cuban agents were infiltrated into every government sector in Venezuela. Why do you think that was?... Logic would conclude that Chavez, and Maduro have been doing this because they wanted to learn, and teach their loyal Chavistas, the tactics the Cuban communists learned in the 60 years they have had a dictatorship in Cuba.

That's where my educated guess comes from. From facts.

originally posted by: ArMaP

Did I say Maduro has the loyalty of all their armed forces?

You seem to think so since you claimed that all the Venezuelan soldiers could fight off the Cubans and other military and terrorist groups helping the dictatorship of Maduro in Venezuela.

originally posted by: ArMaP

PS: You say you lived under a socialist/communist regime, could you tell us where and when, so we can get a better understanding of your point of view? As I said before, my experience about dictatorships comes from living in one until April 1974. My father was once arrested just because someone told the political police he was reading forbidden books. As he lived in a small town where everybody knew everybody he was well treated in the day he spend in jail. As they didn't find any evidence of truth on what was said about him they let him go. In reality he was really reading a forbidden book, but a friend understood what was happening and removed the book from my father's coat before the police took him the station, so they couldn't find anything against him.

Cuba 1972-1980

You think you had it bad because your father spent ONE day in prison and was treated well there, and because the American military were pointing their weapons at your parliament meanwhile they didn't attack ANY of you?

I had to attend church hidden, and every time my friends where asking me were I was going I would have to tell them to learn to play the piano. There was always someone playing the piano, but eventually the communist snitches in the neighborhood found out and they shut down the underground church.

My 2 older sisters starting at11 and12 years old were dragged into government buses every summer to work in summer hard labor camps in Cuba. There were, and to this day there are no fans, no AC in their rooms, the walls were/are made of cloth. They could not eat any of the food they collected, otherwise they were forced to collect tobacco, or other such harvests.
Every time they came back they were thin from a lack of food, ridden with lice, and with diarrhea.

My parents couldn't say no to the communist regime taking my sisters since there is a law that if parents stop children from "becoming good communists/socialists the state would take the children away."

I don't know how they knew, but when my friends found out that my parents and I were leaving Cuba most of my friends insulted me calling me "gusano, capitalista de mierda, etc" "worm, sh1tty capitalist, etc." They picked up a fight with me, and only one friend of mine named Ruben helped me fight the others.

As a child in Cuba when fidel was going to do one of his speeches children were taken off schools, and people around the area were forced to leave their jobs and we all were taken to watch, listen and cheer whether we wanted or not. If you didn't cheer for fidel the loyal communist professors, and the managers, would write it down, and this would be used against you. You could lose your job if you did this enough times. If children were seen not cheering several times their parents would be questioned by the teachers as to why their children were not "loyal communists/socialists."

BTW, when I write "communist/socialist" it is because for communists socialism is part of communism. All communist dictatorships have a socialist economy. The communist Chinese call themselves socialists, and that's because they are both, socialists and communists. Not all socialists are communist, but all communists are socialist.

BTW, Cubans who write about freedom, or human rights activists don't spend a day and are not well taken care off in a prison, they spent years, many die inside the prisons, they are beaten daily, and when they come out many are not the same as when they went in.

originally posted by: ArMaP
No, why do you ask?

Because socialist/communist revolutions DO kill thousands of people and more, they DO beat to a pulp protesters, etc, etc. Look at the Red Terror of Spain, in which a majority of the left murdered untold numbers of people, could be 172,000 or more in a few months. They even murdered almost 8,000 priests. The others they murdered were "capitalists (they didn't have to be rich) and religious people. They desecrated churches and religious statues all over Spain. In the end when the left in Spain gave up, instead of transferring prisoners like they promised they took untold numbers of prisoners into the mountains throughout Spain and murdered them all... There are still mass graves all over Spain that haven't been found. When you fly into the Barajas airport in Madrid there is a large cross, that cross is for all those people murdered by the left. That uprising and murdering spree caused the rise of Franco who went after all leftists. If he hadn't done that the deaths from the Spanish Civil War would have been nothing compared to what the left would have done in Spain alone.

What you went through is NOTHING in comparison to what far leftists do when they are in charge.

I have already shown that Maduro's regime murdered over 5,000 protesters in 2017 alone by the police/military. Who knows how many others have been murdered by the armed Chavista civilians whom have also gone on murder sprees of protesters.

I wouldn't want to go outside there either.
Pick your battles. And sabotage everything you can find.
Be careful.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
It's not what I think, it's what I know.

Sorry for not being clear, what I meant was that you do not know what I know, you can only think you know what I know.

You are from Portugal, you seem to be socialist or communist since your father seems to have been, and you seem to believe that the dictatorship of Maduro has the backing of a majority of the people in Venezuela, or a majority of the military, which is false.

My father wasn't a socialist or a communist, that only shows how ignorant you are about how things were in Portugal before the Carnation Revolution. You didn't need to be a communist to be target by the regime, it was enough to want to get more information.

And no, I don't believe that Maduro has the backing of the majority of the people or the military, you are only, once more, showing that you know nothing about me.

Yes you are... You are also ignoring the FACT that information in Venezuela is very controlled since Chavez and Maduro shut down ALL independent news channels, independent radio stations, or radio stations considered "from the right," etc, etc.

Once more, you cannot know what I know. It's obvious that information is highly controlled in Venezuela, like in all dictatorships (and too many "democracies").

They have about 180,000 soldiers, but you still ignore the fact that only those who would swear loyalty to Maduro would be armed... It is what socialist/communist dictators ALWAYS do, and Venezuela is no different.

There you go again, dreaming that you know what I know...

Many do it out of fear... and again, IF Maduro has the loyalty of all, or a majority of the 180,000 soldiers, why does he need to arm 400,000 CIVILIANS who are Chavistas and swore loyalty to him? 180,000 trained soldiers are better trained than 400,000 civilians with no training.

Probably, but as I only know the Portuguese case that's the one I talked about, as I don't pretend to know what's happening inside other people's minds.

Really?... Let's see... Was fidel castro a mentor to Chavez yes or no? Yes he was.

So what? I never said he wasn't. You keep writing as if I said things I never said, so this is getting boring.

I can't find the videos in English, as they are only in Spanish as far as I can tell.

No problem, like most Portuguese I can understand Spanish, specially that spoken in South America, that sounds closer to Portuguese than the European Spanish.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
You seem to think so since you claimed that all the Venezuelan soldiers could fight off the Cubans and other military and terrorist groups helping the dictatorship of Maduro in Venezuela.

First of all, I never said that.

Second, just look at what you wrote and think about it for a moment.

Who wants Cubans and other external forces out of Venezuela, Maduro's side, the opposition or both?

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
Cuba 1972-1980

Thanks for the information.

You think you had it bad because your father spent ONE day in prison and was treated well there, and because the American military were pointing their weapons at your parliament meanwhile they didn't attack ANY of you?

No, I know I (and all my family) was lucky, as my father had a relatively good job and knew how to keep out of trouble.

Almost all the things you witnessed on Cuba had an equivalent under the Portuguese dictatorship, except the forced labour, I suppose those things are common under all dictatorships.

I don't know if this video was already posted in here, but there is a gang of Maduro supporters some with rocket launchers.

Very heavily armed colectivos from the city of Tumeremo, Bolivar state

and on the infowar side, some news group called Noticias Venezuela(Venezuela News) alleges through sources that military action is very imminent, although they stop short of saying who's military will be doing what.

Fuentes confiables nos informan que es inminente la intervención militar en Venezuela. Durará semanas dependiendo de la resistencia que se encuentre.
Reliable sources inform us that military intervention in Venezuela is imminent. It will last for weeks depending on the resistance that is found.

I found a cookie policy, privacy policy, and terms of use, but no about us or who funds them. It seems to just be a wordpress thing, so anybody could have propped it up recently.

With the recent flareup at the border as well, hopefully Colombian forces get involved to at least bring a semblance of order to the border crossing, and maybe assist regional and international forces combat drug trafficking ... you know, in a non regime change fashion

FoxNews reported from the scene shortly after.

Meanwhile we're being overwhelmed by illegal immigrants from Venezuela. Usually when they're caught, they would be deported within days. Nowadays they immediately seek for asylum, and seem to be free to stay and work on the island for now.

24ora.com...


Last year they came with grenades. That person has already been released from prison.

24ora.com...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse
Have you read this book?
Waiting for snow in Havana by Carlos Eire

I read this book when released about the take over of Cuba:

It is an autobiographical; among many things happening at the time; the most interesting was the money surrendering that was mandatory by Castro. It essentially stripped people that had managed to save money in the banks and traded them for a lower fixed amount of the newly created paper money rendering them poor. Also, of note was the preying on young females by Castro.

What does that mean?
Especiall the "... partner with you every step of the way."?
Supply weapons? How? How will you get involved?

a reply to: Peeple
I think we should supply them with weapons for sure. Why should only one side of a conflict be properly armed?? The people should have their right to fight for their country and liberate themselves from tyranny.

Where would we be today if the French did not give us that little extra bit of help during our own revolution?

Guido should have waited a bit first and at least allowed the first regional drug interdiction operations along the borders of Brazil and Colombia ensuring proper advisors were on the ground inside. he went straight for the jugular by trying to get Caracas from the jump.

It took the Iraqi's a year to get Mosul, original capital of the ISIS caliphate. It took almost another year for the Kurds and the Syrians to take their second capital inside Syria, Raqqa. Even General Haftar spent the last three years abouts securing the rest of Libya before he went for the Capital.

Guido should be seeking a staunchly supportive rural enclave first to become a host for international partners discussing the future of Venezuela while being a base for regional drug interdiction operations along the border. That would be the foot in the door for his external allies to get the party started. Once any of the Paramilitaries or gangs that support Maduro are found with export quantities, the jets and drones can begin their phase and Maduro will be fleeing faster than FM Lavrov can say "hey wait, come back!"

www.worldatlas.com...
The US and its multinational corporations want a big slice of the pie.

a reply to: worldstarcountry

I believe a peaceful civil unrest is possible.
Why are they not just all who believe in Guaido going on a week of strike?
How is Venezuela still functioning?
Sabotage the state don't pay taxes and so on.
How is the outside of Caracas Venezuela doing and what are they thinking?
If you start a conflict, it could spread. Would create more refugees. And Russia has control over the military. It would too easily end in a Russia-US conflict or socialism/capitalism if you prefer. Very close to home. This time American cities could be under attack. Florida from Cuba. With the right propaganda you have a lot of people to worry about Inside the US.

Sabotage is the only peaceful answer. Super secret action hero stuff.

originally posted by: Peeple
Sabotage is the only peaceful answer. Super secret action hero stuff.

No need for sabotage, a general strike for an undetermined time could stop the country.

How far under the way is it by now ?
Obviously EU-backed Guido in Venezuela was a massive failure for the Euro-Nazis and produced a few dead people and some scuffles in the vicinity of Caracas.

While Guido attempts to cheer the little remaining crowd, the EU has lost all of its mental health and comes up with idiotic stories about "Russian military forces" forcing Maduro to stay in the coutry, while his plane was ready to lift off to bring him in exile .... And all other kinds of Nazi EU propaganda bull#s.

As usual as a coup fails, the EU responds by triggering their Gaza goons into launching rockets against Israel ...
I'm not sure how old is this and is still going through the mind of Euro-Nazis, as if some random sporadic rockets from gaza will alleviate their misery

originally posted by: ArMaP

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
You seem to think so since you claimed that all the Venezuelan soldiers could fight off the Cubans and other military and terrorist groups helping the dictatorship of Maduro in Venezuela.

First of all, I never said that.

wow... Do i really need to remind you of what you yourself wrote?

Here it is.

originally posted by: ArMaP

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

I made an educated guess due to the FACT that the Cubans have taught the regimes of Chavez and Maduro what they have done, and learned from using socialist/communist tactics in Cuba...

Guess, yes, educated, I doubt it, as your answer appears to ignore the size of the Venezuelan military.

In that statement you are implying at least two things. First, that the majority of the Venezuelan military would be able to fight off the 25,000 ARMED Cuban military, and the 400,000 ARMED Chavistas. Second, your statement also implies that all the Venezuelan military must be armed. Or did you mean to say they would fight and kill each other with "mean stares"?

originally posted by: ArMaP
Second, just look at what you wrote and think about it for a moment.

Who wants Cubans and other external forces out of Venezuela, Maduro's side, the opposition or both?

Since the start Chavez and Maduro wanted the help from the Cuban dictatorship to help the Chavistas and Chavez/Maduro suppress the majority of Venezuelans. According to sources from Venezuela Maduro doesn't trust his own people, and the ones guarding him are Cuban military personnel who are loyalists to the socialist/communist revolution of Venezuela and Cuba.