What happened to Tesla's files?

a reply to: Phage

Also interesting is that he know he was working with Hertzian waves (radio), something Tesla scoffed at.

Tesla scoffed at radio waves? What do you think he used to develop his wireless power?

You have lost it Phage.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Tesla scoffed at radio waves? What do you think he used to develop his wireless power?

He thought he was using electricity. He was wrong.

The Hertz wave theory of wireless transmission may be kept up for a while, but I do not hesitate to say that in a short time it will be recognized as one of the most remarkable and inexplicable aberrations of the scientific mind which has ever been recorded in history.

www.tfcbooks.com...

Do you think transmitting electricity through the ground is an efficient method?

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: chr0naut

It doesn't take much math background to understand why AC is more efficient than DC at transmission. Faraday developed the math in 1831 and the first practical transformer was invented in the 1880s, so the foundation was already there.

That was precisely my point regarding Tesla's alleged 'discoveries' - he didn't really make any. He produced rough 'plans' based upon known science. Most times, it took years of development and test to produce working engineerin0 from his 'designs'.

The one time Tesla came close to a scientific discovery, when he made an X-Ray picture, he didn't even recognize it for what it was.

But he was imaginative.

In order to use a transformer in a circuit, all one needs to know is the ratio of turns between the primary and secondary and optionally a little basic calculus to determine the inductive load transfer. In order to design a transformer for a specific application, one needs an intuitive understanding of equations developed by Faraday, Maxwell, Hertz, Euler, Henry, and Lenz.

... and Tesla?

Hmmm, not so much, apparently, which, again, was my point.

Westinghouse was quite capable of understanding concepts (which is likely why he was so impressed with Tesla's abilities) but was not quite as adept at designing actual components.

... or, in the war of currents, it was in Westinghouse's business interest to promote an alternate "Wizard of Electricity" to depose Edison's PR.

You seem unable to comprehend things in an analog fashion.

How you could deduce any such thing from anything I have posted here? It is clear that you just made it up because I questioned Tesla's mythos.

Explain the rationale that you used to come to that conclusion and prove yourself.

One can be versed in mathematics and still not be intuitive to the point needed for certain tasks. Even you can multiply numbers together given the equations (at least I am assuming so). I'm sure even you could hook up a component stereo. Yet, you could not begin to design a basic amplifier circuit from scratch (evidenced by the statements in this thread you have already made).

Actually, in high school, I designed a totally automated modular mixing desk that used integrating amplifiers circuits with an LCR resonant discharge feedback loop, to provide gain control over audio operational amplifiers.

It also used variable duty phase switching (again automatic) to suppress feedback.

None of it was digital.

In practical use it was physically unwieldy, fragile, and was not particularly well suited for the live use I had designed it for. Had we had integrated circuits such as exist today, it would probably be more practical.

That was at school.

You simply lack the comprehension required to understand the necessary concepts. Talent and comprehension is not a binary thing. Lucky for you.

TheRedneck

You don't like what I posted. That is obvious.

But your conclusions about me, are clearly groundless.

a reply to: Phage

He thought he was using electricity. He was wrong.

EM waves are not electric?

You do know what "EM" stands for? Try ELECTROmagnetic.

At the time that was written, radio transmissions required a ground to provide a reference plane. We have learned more since then... well, some of us have.

Do you think transmitting electricity through the ground is an efficient method?

Considering the power you are using right now is partially transmitted through the ground, I'd say yes.

All power transmission uses grounding, which is providing a return path through an actual earth ground to prevent voltage gradient differentials between supplier and user. It's why you have a grounding rod attached to your home.

TheRedneck

a reply to: chr0naut

That was precisely my point regarding Tesla's alleged 'discoveries' - he didn't really make any. He produced rough 'plans' based upon known science. Most times, it took years of development and test to produce working engineerin0 from his 'designs'.

Well, I guess Marconi didn't make any 'real' scientific discoveries either; he had no earthly idea how to set up a superheterodyne circuit or use a phase-locked loop for tuning. Heck, he never even imagined frequency modulation (FM radio)! Einstein never made anything in his life... all he did was write down equations that it took decades to prove (and which some still want to question today)... not much of a scientist, eh?

You, sir, are a prime example of someone who not only knows nothing about what you speak of, but who arrogantly refuses to even acknowledge they know nothing.

... and Tesla?

Hmmm, not so much, apparently, which, again, was my point.

And Tesla.

What do you think a Tesla Coil is? Hint: it's a transformer.

... or, in the war of currents, it was in Westinghouse's business interest to promote an alternate "Wizard of Electricity" to depose Edison's PR.

Duh. That has no bearing on what I posted or on Tesla's abilities.

How you could deduce any such thing from anything I have posted here? It is clear that you just made it up because I questioned Tesla's mythos.

Explain the rationale that you used to come to that conclusion and prove yourself.

You just did.

You just asserted that because there was a need for Westinghouse to use Tesla as PR against a competitor, that PR could not have had a basis in ability. So either Tesla's name was PR for Westinghouse, or Tesla was a brilliant engineer/scientist. You cannot accept that both are possible at the same time.

You also seem to believe that either someone is a 'scientist' or they are not. You indicate that there are not levels of scientific ability. Binary over analog thinking.

Actually, in high school, I designed a totally automated modular mixing desk that used integrating amplifiers circuits with an LCR resonant discharge feedback loop, to provide gain control over audio operational amplifiers.

It also used variable duty phase switching (again automatic) to suppress feedback.

None of it was digital.

Congratulations. Got a schematic?

In practical use it was physically unwieldy, fragile, and was not particularly well suited for the live use I had designed it for. Had we had integrated circuits such as exist today, it would probably be more practical.

So, according to your previous assertions about Tesla, you didn't do anything.

You don't like what I posted. That is obvious.

But your conclusions about me, are clearly groundless.

Hahaha, if you say so. Feel free to keep proving my assertions correct, though. It's kind of funny, in a sad way.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: chr0naut

Well, I guess Marconi didn't make any 'real' scientific discoveries either; he had no earthly idea how to set up a superheterodyne circuit or use a phase-locked loop for tuning. Heck, he never even imagined frequency modulation (FM radio)! Einstein never made anything in his life... all he did was write down equations that it took decades to prove (and which some still want to question today)... not much of a scientist, eh?

Please, inform me of the equations that Tesla gave us? I mean, Marconi gave us Marconi's law. Einstein is famous for his equations.

Did you know Tesla said: "Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality". Perhaps Tesla didn't leave us with a legacy of discovered formulas because he wasn't actually working that way?

You, sir, are a prime example of someone who not only knows nothing about what you speak of, but who arrogantly refuses to even acknowledge they know nothing.

But surely i'd be be ignorant of what I don't know. It wouldn't be arrogance.

Like yourself, I'd have no idea of what I didn't know.

... and Tesla?

Hmmm, not so much, apparently, which, again, was my point.

And Tesla.

What do you think a Tesla Coil is? Hint: it's a transformer.

Just a transformer alone?

But I was pointing out that when you listed out all those, whose equations describe modern electrics, Tesla's name was obviously absent. Instead your 'answer' was to suggest that "a Tesla coil is a transformer". Great answer.

Also, did you make the assumption that Tesla invented the Tesla coil? Because both Henry Rowland (1889) and Elihu Thomson (1890) beat him to it.

... or, in the war of currents, it was in Westinghouse's business interest to promote an alternate "Wizard of Electricity" to depose Edison's PR.

Duh. That has no bearing on what I posted or on Tesla's abilities.

No, if his abilities could have been just propaganda and PR, and Tesla obviously didn't leave us any actual usable discoveries or unique science himself, my conclusion is that he wasn't 'electro magical' at all.

How you could deduce any such thing from anything I have posted here? It is clear that you just made it up because I questioned Tesla's mythos.

Explain the rationale that you used to come to that conclusion and prove yourself.

You just did.

No, I didn't.

I asked you to explain what led you to believe that I am "unable to comprehend things in an analog fashion".

Your answer, "You did", was trite, vacuuous and totally unrelated to the question. I mean, in light of the question, you are suggesting that I did your rational thinking for you?

You can try again to explain your rationale in making that statement.

You just asserted that because there was a need for Westinghouse to use Tesla as PR against a competitor, that PR could not have had a basis in ability.

Nope, that appears to be your assumption.

So either Tesla's name was PR for Westinghouse, or Tesla was a brilliant engineer/scientist. You cannot accept that both are possible at the same time.

Ah, perhaps I could explain myself with an analogue (< - see what I did there )

Trump, without apparent cognizance of the irony, said he was "Like a smart person". He's also been openly laughed at before the UN, but you are, hand on heart, a Trump supporter.

It is fairly obvious that your capacity to differentiate between what is BS, and what is reliable data, is at a particularly low bar.

You also seem to believe that either someone is a 'scientist' or they are not. You indicate that there are not levels of scientific ability. Binary over analog thinking.

Ah, I see. You think that someone who hasn't left us with any new scientific theory, or new equation/s, or new paradigms of thought, or new scientific data, is perhaps 'slightly' a scientist?

Surely any such person has zero scientific credential.

In the analog scale of scientific ability, zero is hard at one extreme and may as well be considered as exactly the same as binary zero. Zero is zero.

Actually, in high school, I designed a totally automated modular mixing desk that used integrating amplifiers circuits with an LCR resonant discharge feedback loop, to provide gain control over audio operational amplifiers.

It also used variable duty phase switching (again automatic) to suppress feedback.

None of it was digital.

Congratulations. Got a schematic?

I think it is stored somewhere with my old band stuff.

The actual modules were in a shed that was demolished in a tropical storm and I tossed them because by the time I went through all the recovered bits, it had been water damaged and the hand etched PCB's had corroded and de-laminated from the substrate.

In practical use it was physically unwieldy, fragile, and was not particularly well suited for the live use I had designed it for. Had we had integrated circuits such as exist today, it would probably be more practical.

So, according to your previous assertions about Tesla, you didn't do anything.

You don't like what I posted. That is obvious.

But your conclusions about me, are clearly groundless.

Hahaha, if you say so. Feel free to keep proving my assertions correct, though. It's kind of funny, in a sad way.

TheRedneck

Well, have I made any negative assertions about you personally? You have done that to me and a number of people, here on ATS.

It is rude and significantly bigoted since there is no way you could have any real knowledge of the people you put down.

Many of them have valid argument and you respond with ad hominem, rather than speaking to the subject.

Here's some facts for you that you won't like:

The Rednecks were unionists, leftists, who struck against and opposed the mining companies. Your very epithet is contrary to your ideology. Red Necks and Red Bandanas: Appalachian Coal Miners and the Coloring of Union Identity, 1912-1936 - Jstor.

Donald Trump is seen as a buffoon by the international community. The nonsense he spoke before the UN actually got him laughed at openly before the whole world and the particular snippet made world news. He did not even seem to be cognizant of the irony of him saying he's, "like, a smart person".

There are many methods of notation of differential calculus, not just the one you were taught. Notation for differentiation From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In all my years after schooling of actually doing electronic and digital engineering work, I have almost never used vector calculus. There are look up tables and component specifications that are already done that make life easy. From this, I assume that you have never come across a spreadsheet or network design programs, or you don't have much hands on experience, or possibly, you are still at school for some reason.

a reply to: chr0naut

OK, your BS is getting too deep for my waders.

In a previous thread, you stated that you were an official with the NZ government. Now you're an electronic engineer. Are you a surgeon in medical threads? Maybe a lawyer in threads about legalities?

I call BS on everything you have posted. It's sort of expected, as you continually post claims which are easily refuted.

As for this thread... you're caught, hoss, and don't even know it. You claimed you used an "audio operational amplifier" before integrated circuits were available... I assume made from transistors... in high school. First of all, I have never seen or heard of any high school class that would go into the kind of detail you went into, so if true, it would have been some sort of science project... and that would indicate you had awards from that. I'm sure your work would easily beat out the old vinegar-and-soda volcano demonstration.

It appears you just looked up some links and threw together some terms. Yes, there are audio operational amplifiers, but only as integrated circuits. The reason they only exist as integrated circuits is because an audio amplifier and an operational amplifier work totally differently from a design standpoint. Anyone building an "audio operational amplifier" out of transistors (or vacuum tubes, if you want to go back that far) is simply burning time and energy for no purpose. In an IC, the cost is so low that elements of both can be included easily. Not so much with discrete.

You said you designed a "totally automated modular mixing desk"... I'm not sure exactly how one could design something totally automated for a purpose that is primarily artistic, but that's your claim. You used "integrating amplifiers circuits with an LCR resonant discharge feedback loop." In other words, you somehow managed to create a low-pass filter (that's essentially what an integrating amplifier is) with a filtered feedback... why? Why would you use two filters? And what do you mean by a "resonant discharge"? You claim it was used to "provide gain control over audio operational amplifiers." Forget about the description of why such an amplifier is extremely irregular, how are you using a discharge anything to handle an AGC circuit? And of course, then we have the claim that you "used variable duty phase switching (again automatic) to suppress feedback." Variable phase shifting that would eliminate feedback is called "noise cancelling" and wasn't available way back then.

You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time, but you just failed to fool anyone on this subject. And you know it. Otherwise you wouldn't have resorted to trying to find buttons to press to get a response from me... like an off-topic paragraph on Trump or a few paragraphs on what some idiot on the Internet thinks a redneck is. You're so transparent, you might as well be invisible.

So what's say, for once, we drop the male cow excrement. You are no engineer, and no official, just a lonely fellow sitting somewhere in the world that wants to pretend to be a great mind by posting BS on an Internet forum. As for Nikola Tesla (the actual subject of this thread), I will continue to honor the man who gave us a wealth of patents whether you think he was great or not, just as I honor the others mentioned in this thread. You've had your fun. Now go find someone else to put on airs to. Your own history had you pegged before this thread ever started, and you've done nothing to change that reputation.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Phage

Is the Josephson junction use by the SIS in the Venoma project declassified yet?
If not than cut and paste something and you win.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: chr0naut

OK, your BS is getting too deep for my waders.

In a previous thread, you stated that you were an official with the NZ government.

I never stated that.

I was one of very few who founded a political party who got into government. A strategist, if you will. Although I am a party member, I never had a position in government.

Now you're an electronic engineer.

I have studied electronic engineering, and have designed, built and maintained electronics, but my current job description is in computing, business support and like the career path of so many engineers, management.

I have also studied mechanical engineering, computer science and astrophysics over the years and done a fitting and machining trade. I have had I full and varied life doing the things that interest me.

Are you a surgeon in medical threads? Maybe a lawyer in threads about legalities?

No I have never done those things. Although I have friends who are academics with those degrees and with whom I communicate. My wife has studied psychology and dementia care but currently, she is a music teacher.

I suppose you also would have had more than one job description (unless you are tenured and have never really left school and have never really had a job).

I call BS on everything you have posted. It's sort of expected, as you continually post claims which are easily refuted.

As for this thread... you're caught, hoss, and don't even know it. You claimed you used an "audio operational amplifier" before integrated circuits were available... I assume made from transistors... in high school. First of all, I have never seen or heard of any high school class that would go into the kind of detail you went into, so if true, it would have been some sort of science project... and that would indicate you had awards from that. I'm sure your work would easily beat out the old vinegar-and-soda volcano demonstration.

Um, no. I was one of those hobbyists who started building kitset electronics in primary school. I lived down the road from an electronic engineer and was friends with his son. When things I designed or built didn't work, I would take them to him to find out why. It was very educational. By the time I began high school, I could design stuff reasonably.

I was also interested in music and worked in bars, clubs and recording studios while I was still in school (I was underage but could bluff my way through because I was 'with the band'). I started making DI boxes for musicians because the bought ones were generally crap or overpriced. This expanded to effects units and recording gear. My schools never knew of these activities.

I did, however, receive awards while at primary and secondary school (pretty much everyone gets achievement awards anyway). In second form (that's what they called second year of high school), I got an award for for being second in the state in science. My high school also was a selective high school, for high achievers.

It appears you just looked up some links and threw together some terms. Yes, there are audio operational amplifiers, but only as integrated circuits. The reason they only exist as integrated circuits is because an audio amplifier and an operational amplifier work totally differently from a design standpoint. Anyone building an "audio operational amplifier" out of transistors (or vacuum tubes, if you want to go back that far) is simply burning time and energy for no purpose. In an IC, the cost is so low that elements of both can be included easily. Not so much with discrete.

OK, where would I look up that information? Do you know of anyone else who has built anything like that from components? Any commercial implementations of fully automated audio mixers, even these days, with PLC's, DSP's and computer control?

You said you designed a "totally automated modular mixing desk"... I'm not sure exactly how one could design something totally automated for a purpose that is primarily artistic, but that's your claim. You used "integrating amplifiers circuits with an LCR resonant discharge feedback loop." In other words, you somehow managed to create a low-pass filter (that's essentially what an integrating amplifier is)

Integration is where a circuit adds to its output over time. It ramps up, continually, based upon its input. This was balanced against a circuit that would have been a low pass circuit if I had been feeding it audio, but was actually a slow rate discharge of the integrating signal. This side of the circuit was a gain control signal, not audio. The two functions, integration and discharge, opposed and moderated each other in the control side of the circuit.

with a filtered feedback... why? Why would you use two filters? And what do you mean by a "resonant discharge"? You claim it was used to "provide gain control over audio operational amplifiers." Forget about the description of why such an amplifier is extremely irregular, how are you using a discharge anything to handle an AGC circuit?

You appear to be confusing the control signal with audio. An integrating amp will only ever ramp up until it clips. You have to counter that. I called it resonant discharge because it wasn't simply a voltage divider but was responsive to the audio signal feeding the integrator.

And of course, then we have the claim that you "used variable duty phase switching (again automatic) to suppress feedback." Variable phase shifting that would eliminate feedback is called "noise cancelling" and wasn't available way back then.

LOL, well I must have been ahead of my time, but it was available back then. I can recall some old mixing desks and amplifiers with a 'phase' switch.

You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time, but you just failed to fool anyone on this subject. And you know it. Otherwise you wouldn't have resorted to trying to find buttons to press to get a response from me... like an off-topic paragraph on Trump or a few paragraphs on what some idiot on the Internet thinks a redneck is.

Actually, it is a book by Patrick Huber, who is Professor of History & Political Science at Missouri S&T.

You're so transparent, you might as well be invisible.

So what's say, for once, we drop the male cow excrement. You are no engineer, and no official, just a lonely fellow

Surely everything I have done indicates that I must have a very active social life? Music, politics, academia & etc.

sitting somewhere in the world that wants to pretend to be a great mind by posting BS on an Internet forum.

I know myself, what I am capable of and have achieved and, except for what I tell you, you have no way of knowing me. Yet, you presume to tell me about myself. That is not really rational on your part.

As for Nikola Tesla (the actual subject of this thread), I will continue to honor the man who gave us a wealth of patents whether you think he was great or not, just as I honor the others mentioned in this thread. You've had your fun. Now go find someone else to put on airs to. Your own history had you pegged before this thread ever started, and you've done nothing to change that reputation.

TheRedneck

The Marx Brothers were great, too.

a reply to: TheRedneck

EM waves are not electric?

They are composed in part of an electric field, yes. But they are not electricity. They are neither charged particles or charged particles in motion. No charge.

Tesla did not understand electromagnetic radiation and scoffed at the notion, while others were knowingly developing ways to use and study it. Stone, for example.

The Hertz wave theory of wireless transmission may be kept up for a while, but I do not hesitate to say that in a short time it will be recognized as one of the most remarkable and inexplicable aberrations of the scientific mind which has ever been recorded in history.

www.tfcbooks.com...

It's been one hundred years since he said that and "the Hertz wave theory" seems to be alive and kicking. He was a very good engineer and inventor, but he had some things very wrong.

Terrestrial phenomena which I have noted conclusively show that there is no Heaviside layer, or if it exists, it is of no effect. It certainly would be unfortunate if the human race were thus imprisoned and forever without power to reach out into the depths of space.

The ionosphere exists and so does its E region.
ethw.org...

It's been heavily documented that donald trump's uncle was head of the team that cleared out Tesla's lab

Then mysteriously got quite rich very soon after this, and was known to have had high powered particle cannons in his lab that he used for all sorts of purposes.

It's possible this is where the wealth of the Trump family originally came from.

A friend of mine who is a nuclear engineering student built a small Tesla Tower in her yard on Vancouver Island as part of her dissertation

She uses it to power a cable box and her tv in the back yard, and it works great.

She wants to build a bigger one soon to power the rest of her house.

a reply to: babybunnies

She must have a big electric bill.
You know where Tesla, and everyone else gets the power for the coils, right?

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: chr0naut

Nikola Tesla was a lonely, troubled man who had watched his great ideas ripped from his hand by financial moguls all his life, and who died penniless still working on his ideas. The electricity you use to communicate with us, the vehicles you drive to get around, and many other things you and I take for granted are in large part due to his discoveries. To try and demonize him that way after his death, when he cannot defend himself, is purely despicable. You have no shame.

TheRedneck

He also worked for Thomas Edison for a while who stole many of his ideas and patented them as his own. If it weren't for the likes of JP Morgan, the world would likely be running on freely generated electric power right now, from 100% clean power generation.

"What's it like to be the smartest man on Earth? I don't know, you'd have to ask Nikola Tesla" - Albert Einstein

a reply to: babybunnies

"What's it like to be the smartest man on Earth? I don't know, you'd have to ask Nikola Tesla" - Albert Einstein

When and where did Einstein say that?

a reply to: Phage

Maybe Canadians have better energy rates than Americans do.

a reply to: Phage

The Heaviside layer refutation might have been disinformation to hide state of the art classified research.
Ionospheric reflection would have offered secret communication potential in 1899. Tesla exploited the 18 KHZ ionospheric transparency window with an avalanche receiver which probably means the phenomena had been studied in the 1800's.

This paper reports on an engineering study conducted to evaluate the possibility that Nikola Tesla's Colorado Springs receivers could receive the 10 GW kilometric radiation from Jupiter discovered during the Voyager I fly-by of that planet. A little known result, drawn from the Appleton-Hartree Equation and experimentally confirmed by the U.S. Naval Research Laboratory many years ago, demonstrates that during solar minima there is an ionospheric-transparency window near 18 kHz, the very frequencies and conditions under which Tesla's Colorado Springs receivers operated.

www.tfcbooks.com...

a reply to: Slichter

Tesla was not alone in doubting the existence of the Heaviside layer. But so what if he picked up signals from Jupiter's magnetosphere by chance? Interesting, but what's the point? Are those the signals Tesla thought were from aliens?

Ionospheric reflection would have offered secret communication potential in 1899.

How so? No one could receive the bounced signals? Marconi utilized it to send the first signal across the Atlantic, whether or not he knew it at the time is questionable. But Tesla was using the ground (he thought), no need for the ionosphere. Or were all his writings just disinfo? Easy claim, no evidence.

a reply to: mike dangerously

vault.fbi.gov...