Swamp creatures and the revolving doors at the MIC and government..

Most of us have heard about the revolving door policies between government and companies. It really is worse than just going to work as a lobbyist for a company after doing a stint in government . The following video is about Boeing and all the money they have in the past been fined for knowingly falsifying records (12 million fine); and another fine of 615 million..

Boeing spends around 274,803,310 a year on just lobbying.....I assure you they think it is worth it or they would not continue to do it. They did receive a little over 28.9 billion in 2017 government contracts so they can certainly afford it as the 28.9 made up about 1/3 of Boeing's earnings for that year...

The whole time I was writing this Lockheed was in the forefront of my thoughts as far as another revolving door company. Back in the late 70s Lockheed got in trouble for paying bribes and it looked like there was going to be a big fine levied... Nope as I flew the CFO to Japan with new paperwork that would solve the problem.. The CFO was a sailing friend of mine and a darn good card shark evidenced by all the money he won from me on occasion !!

I have and still do have big problems with the money we spend on defense and the absolute waste that goes on with this brand/type of doing business. F-22 got so expensive that they had to cancel the program... so we ended up with maybe 1/3 of the aircraft we originally wanted ... Then you read stories about our front line bombers and fighters having piss poor mission availability due to maintenance/parts problems..

I was in the service and when you are fighting a war with stuff that does not work it makes an already challenging situation much worse. Try flying an F-4 with no guns and missiles that hardly ever worked over Hanoi during the Vietnam war to get a taste of frustration. See 2d video as there was a time when 55 sparrow missiles were launched at the enemy with NO HITS.. The much vaulted fire and forget missile were not to be used as two Naval aircraft were shot down by other Navy aircraft... So... get in close and identify your target with your mark one eyeball. Unfortunately the Sparrow missile had a better kill envelope at a range of one mile.. not close in.. How embarrassing to get shot down by a Mig-15 that was first introduced in Korea and could turn inside a smoky F-4 that you could see from miles away .... Most of the guys would shoot two Sparrows at a target hoping one would actually work.. It was so bad they finally put a center line M61 Vulcan 20mm cannon gun pod on the F-4... The reason I bring this up is people/friends get killed when stuff does not work as advertised..M-16 rifle is a great example of getting people killed when it first came out and it only took a few years and several lives to get the bugs worked out.... Procurement of military stuff needs a revamping and a true accounting by people who actually know what the heck is needed and is going on IMO.

When people say we spend more on defense than the next several countries together it is true .. But how much of that money is actually spent on hardware and not just padding the mega inflated prices for the MIC and the way business is done today ?

I doubt anything will change as since Vietnam (probably before) this culture has embedded itself into the way things are done.. Get as much as you can and drag a program out to the maximum extent possible to enhance earnings..add-ons an fixes that is where much of the profit comes from as it is just icing on the multilayered cake IMO.

youtu.be...


Missiles and the F-4 ..how much did each missile cost..can't remember but they were not cheap inspite of them not doing the job and recording a fantastic 10% probability of a kill ratio against North Vietnamese antiquated fighters (Mig 15 and 17) !

Kinda like a rant but everything is tied together and it really does piss me off as nothing seems to ever change.. Just business as usual only this time their may be some consequences for the past decisions made with regards to the 737 MAX.

youtu.be...


One of our members complained about where have the conspiracies gone ? This is one of the biggest conspiracies in American history as it involves every citizen and their tax dollars spent through a corrupt system that only works when pressure is applied to quit screwing around.. in the mean time I assume they laugh all the way to the bank and offshore account.

Bigger conspiracy: Where are our adversaries coming up with (replicating) the technologies the MIC is pushing the US Military to buy?

And 50 year contracts. Don't get me started.

I can relate to the procurement issue. We were forced to use a new ammo loading system for the f15. It had been in mothballs for years and was on its 3rd contractor when we got it. We spent more time fixing these brand new POS things than using them and they were expensive! The parts and tech data were nigh impossible to find. I am sure this could be mirrored across many equipment items.

Dont even get me started on the unions as i have mentioned ft worthless and the f35 dipsnips.


Also...the AF likes to make changes AFTER the contract has been signed...which of course creates redesigns etc.

THEN....there is the end of year money. I once had to go blow over 20k on whatever, as we had extra dosh at the end of the fiscal year. Its called "use it or lose it" and i cant imagine the overall amount spent on crap spread across thousands of small accounts. And this is just the AF.

a reply to: lakenheath24

THEN....there is the end of year money. I once had to go blow over 20k on whatever, as we had extra dosh at the end of the fiscal year. Its called "use it or lose it" and i cant imagine the overall amount spent on crap spread across thousands of small accounts. And this is just the AF.

You have to wonder how much money across the board is wasted with that one thing alone ? First time I heard about the spend it or lose it was back in 1970 I think.. Amazing in the stupidity and waste of just about everything the government does

a reply to: 727Sky

When I was in the military, I learned why pilots were so cocky.

The only way anyone would go up in one of those planes, is that they thought they were God, or had a hot line to God.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: 727Sky

When I was in the military, I learned why pilots were so cocky.

The only way anyone would go up in one of those planes, is that thought they were God, or had hot line to God.

Many/Most of the guys who fly...it is because that is something they wanted to do. I never thought of doing anything else and even at two years of age according to my mother I would go ballistic when I saw an aircraft..

You statement reminded me of one of my best friends who was a carrier qualified Naval aviator. He told me once that, "there was no such thing as a bad Naval aviator for all the bad ones are dead or at the bottom of the ocean" ! He was FOS (and still is) but a great guy... A couple of months later at the airline we had to fire a Navy guy because he could not land an aircraft in a cross wind and this was after triple the time most guys get checking out in an aircraft.

There are some guys I will remember and respect until my dying days .. Many flew because they thought that was what they were destined to do.. All expected their aircraft to preform and the weapons to work.. Sadly many lost their lives because that was not the case.

a reply to: 727Sky

shhh , lets focus back on the symptoms (healtcare, social issues, immigration, economy, world conflict,etc) not the REAL issue of conflict of interest (revolving door policies, infinite terms in congress, lobbying reform,etc)

hey look over there, i think someone is being racist and look at that illegal crossing the border.

dont worry im sure this will be the year that the Republicans and democrats will focus on conflict of interest in congress and not the symptoms of it.

originally posted by: lakenheath24
I can relate to the procurement issue. We were forced to use a new ammo loading system for the f15. It had been in mothballs for years and was on its 3rd contractor when we got it. We spent more time fixing these brand new POS things than using them and they were expensive! The parts and tech data were nigh impossible to find. I am sure this could be mirrored across many equipment items.

Dont even get me started on the unions as i have mentioned ft worthless and the f35 dipsnips.


Also...the AF likes to make changes AFTER the contract has been signed...which of course creates redesigns etc.

THEN....there is the end of year money. I once had to go blow over 20k on whatever, as we had extra dosh at the end of the fiscal year. Its called "use it or lose it" and i cant imagine the overall amount spent on crap spread across thousands of small accounts. And this is just the AF.

End of year money! Even in just my small command in the Navy and our very specialized mission, even I saw ridiculous end of year money purchases. If I listed some of the things that got ordered with that money each year, people would be pissed.

At Lakenheath24 and OP: thanks for the stories about the equipment and aircraft debacles during fighting. This is NOT what average Americans think of when they think of our "superior" US military power (meaning that people aren't aware of this). Appalling!

Back in the day, one of you could go to a journalist and get a story done on what goes on, and the country would be outraged and would bring pressure to bear upon the problem. But since now our media and "journalists"
are owned by the same group of people who cause the problems, that will never happen now.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

I had a lot of respect for the pilots I dealt with. They are different...i will give em that. Anyone who straps themselves into jet with 50k of thrust is ok by me.

And....just to brag....i got to ride in a strike eagle. Pilot even gave me the stick for 30 minutes.


BTW...here is how to spot a pilot wearing civvies...golf polo, khaki shorts, boat shoes(no socks)...and raybans.

It isn't just the MIC that has a revolving door at government. Pharma, Agro, Finance and so on. These huge companies have people going back and forth between government and private sector all the time. They make the laws that govern the sector that they come from then once change of gov. comes, back they go to their old job in the industry they just made the soft laws for.

And yes, you need expertise in an area to competently make laws or regulations for it but there is just something rotten when you can have the revolving door many of the lobbyists and bureaucrats can have and the obscene way they gut any sensible laws or regulations that oversee their particular industry.

The MIC just gets the largest slice of the pie.

Also, this isn't just an United States problem but most western nations face this same thing.

originally posted by: KansasGirl


Back in the day, one of you could go to a journalist and get a story done on what goes on, and the country would be outraged and would bring pressure to bear upon the problem. But since now our media and "journalists"
are owned by the same group of people who cause the problems, that will never happen now.

I think alot of journalists still have thier integrity but are afraid of falling afoul of Obama's anti whistleblower laws.

originally posted by: GAOTU789
It isn't just the MIC that has a revolving door at government. Pharma, Agro, Finance and so on. These huge companies have people going back and forth between government and private sector all the time. They make the laws that govern the sector that they come from then once change of gov. comes, back they go to their old job in the industry they just made the soft laws for.

And yes, you need expertise in an area to competently make laws or regulations for it but there is just something rotten when you can have the revolving door many of the lobbyists and bureaucrats can have and the obscene way they gut any sensible laws or regulations that oversee their particular industry.

The MIC just gets the largest slice of the pie.

Also, this isn't just an United States problem but most western nations face this same thing.

Isn't it funny how this is brought up in all the political debates and by BOTH party as a BIG concern.

Oh yeah , right it isn't. I wonder why, it must not be that big of an issue nor abused in any way. LOL

a reply to: KansasGirl

You could honestly move 4-5 billion i bet and it would not be missed. Thats 4-5 billion for much needed spares aircraft parts. Then again...most of that money goes to small businesses in the local community so there is that. I really hate when the AF buys new toys without vetting them and holding the manufscturer responsible for warrantys. They just get the cash and go out of business.

That ammo loader i was talking about was nearly ten years old when we got it.....new.