UFO (Norway 2019): Was it Really From NASA, as Claimed the Next Day?

originally posted by: peacefulpete

"Why did you assume his reported date was accurate without checking with Lion's Club records?"

...Because I'd generally trust an individual's memory of dates, of his own life, more than... a revision of those dates, 50 yrs later, by different people...

So you trust a years-old memory over the actual records of the Lion's Club schedule for that event?

You again assume facts not in evidence, that the revision was fifty years later.

The 'correction' was made decades ago when Sheaffer first researched the case. He published it back then. Nobody disputed it -- they all just ignored it. Since everybody ELSE in the UFO culture shared your attitude that it wasn't worth the effort to actually check the date, while insisting there was no earthly explanation for the sighting, it's no wonder the field is immersed in misleading misinformation. This is not a good approach to solving the mystery, and your defense of this deliberate too-good-to-check attitude is dismaying.

ADD: I cannot understand how you could read the opening paragraph in the link I gave and still claim that the revision was made 'fifty years latr'. Here's that paragraph:

A UFO sighting was reported in 1973 by at-that-time future president president Jimmy Carter. It didn't attract much attention at the time. I began investigating the case in 1976, when Carter was running for president. However, there was no accurate information available to make it possible to find out what Carter saw. I began making various inquiries, looking for someone who might be able to provide some facts on the case. Finally, someone suggested that I contact Hayden Hewes, director of the International UFO Bureau, who had written a brief piece on the Carter sighting for Argosy UFO [Nov., 1976]. I reached Mr. Hewes by telephone at his home in Oklahoma City, and it was he who provided the first significant lead. When brief press reports appeared during the big UFO flap of 1973 to the effect that Governor Carter had previously spotted a UFO, the International UFO Bureau mailed a UFO sighting report to Carter at the State Capitol in Atlanta. Carter apparently filled out the form in some haste, his handwritten replies brief and not easily legible. He then mailed it back to Oklahoma. Mr. Hewes was kind enough to lend me a photographic transparency of the 1973 report in Carter's own handwriting.... It turns out that the sighting occurred in Leary, Georgia, about forty miles from Carter's home town of Plains, on the evening of January 6, 1969. (Carter mis-remembered the date as sometime on October, 1969, but I contacted the Lions Club headquarters in Illinois, which established the date as January 6).

a reply to: JimOberg

^I'm not trying to be dismissive of your findings; I'd just generally trust someone's memories of his life, more than other people trying to piece it together.

Your case is stating that he messed up the date of his sighting... which is possible, but not something I'd expect.

But OK maybe he mixed up one meeting with a different meeting in a different month. I guess that's understandable (if he had two similar meetings, in two different months).

My misunderstanding about the revision being 50 yrs later, was because the blog was from 2017. So I thought that was the timeframe of it.

Since the mundane explanation was apparently available all along, these 50 yrs, then I guess the big question is why Jimmy Carter himself never came around to the mundane explanation of it?

originally posted by: peacefulpete
.... Since the mundane explanation was apparently available all along, these 50 yrs, then I guess the big question is why Jimmy Carter himself never came around to the mundane explanation of it?

Excellent question -- and fine response, thank you! A search of local newspapers the day after the sighting should have alerted investigators of all persusions, but everybody missed it [the newspapers weren't on line for decades, of course]. Rocket launchings were so novel in those days that people paid attention, but their role in sparking major UFO reports around the world wasn't fully appreciated for years. The guy who found the clippings used a recently-accessible newspaper back issues file that had been scanning hrd copies year by year,

They try to sell it in every way..

Space.com

observer1 == "They try to sell it in every way.."

I'm not following you. NASA gives the information away free. Are you suggesting they're misinforming the public on this rocket launch?

originally posted by: JimOberg

originally posted by: peacefulpete
.... Since the mundane explanation was apparently available all along, these 50 yrs, then I guess the big question is why Jimmy Carter himself never came around to the mundane explanation of it?

Excellent question -- and fine response, thank you! A search of local newspapers the day after the sighting should have alerted investigators of all persusions, but everybody missed it [the newspapers weren't on line for decades, of course]. Rocket launchings were so novel in those days that people paid attention, but their role in sparking major UFO reports around the world wasn't fully appreciated for years. The guy who found the clippings used a recently-accessible newspaper back issues file that had been scanning hrd copies year by year,

Good points. It's all quite possible, as you laid it out. It could have been a rocket, and it could have been never figured out, that that's what it was. Especially that the media was so limited when it happened.

Has anyone tried to contact him to clear it up, that his sighting was probably a rocket launch?

Actually, your link says:

So there the matter stood for forty years. Then just a week ago, an associate of space writer and skeptic James Oberg contacted him, suggesting the possibility that what Carter might have seen was a bright barium space cloud from a NASA rocket, launched to study the behavior of the upper atmosphere.

So, you contacted him, about it. Was there ever a response from him or his people?

originally posted by: peacefulpete
So, you contacted him, about it. Was there ever a response from him or his people?

An assoiate of mine contcted ME with his discovery of the newpaper clippings and subsequent finding the launch info, sorry it was ambiguous.

The Sheaffer article has a letter of another researcher who had already made that voyage of discovery and HE reported contacting Carter, like this: original link... www.theskepticsguide.org...

originally posted by: JimOberg

originally posted by: peacefulpete
So, you contacted him, about it. Was there ever a response from him or his people?

An assoiate of mine contcted ME with his discovery of the newpaper clippings and subsequent finding the launch info, sorry it was ambiguous.

The Sheaffer article has a letter of another researcher who had already made that voyage of discovery and HE reported contacting Carter, like this: original link... www.theskepticsguide.org...

Thanks, OK, so they contacted his estate, but apparently never got a response back.

From ur link:

In the past few weeks, I have used several avenues for sending this information to the Carter Center Library and have yet to receive a reply.

Too bad. I wonder if the info ever reached Jimmy Carter himself. Or maybe it never actually reached him, if he has other people running his email and media accounts for him.

Sorry for mixing up the details a bit, the websites are dense with information, that I was browsing over quickly.

So I'm not sure if the sites are really so confusing or if I was just glancing over them too quickly.

However this does sound a bit confusing, I think lol.

an associate of space writer and skeptic James Oberg contacted him

...

So I'll just keep my fingers crossed that Pres. Carter or his estate will respond.

It can be tough to reach him though, I imagine, bc he's probably not running his own websites and emails etc., I'd imagine...

The bigger issue here, I think, is the common practice of the UFO media to strenuously AVOID doing fact-checking on VIP and celebrity reports of UFO sightings. We can speculate on the motives behind that policy. I've run into it on the Gordon Cooper stories where the mantra is 'heroes-don't-lie' and any attempt to seek independent corroboration is tantamount to calling the guy a liar.

Meanwhile, let's try again to contact this Carl G. 'Jere' Justus guy.

a reply to: JimOberg

^OK cool, so you are saying that you will contact him?

As for the modern AZURE sighting, even if we take it as really nothing more than NASA's experiment, I'm still surprised that the public was not better warned about it. Because NASA knows that such strange sightings can cause fear and confusion.

Like, they could have announced that there'd be a complex pattern of lights, one night, for their experiment. Anything to prepare the public to expect it and recognize it, when it happened.

Actually now I'm wondering if maybe they do a lot of experiments out there, already -- is that why they wouldn't bother to announce it better?

I've found a phone number in Alabama for him, apparently he's retired NASA, I'll call in the morning.

Re the OP video, I didn't realize until I read the project website that the launches were aimed at specific auroral conditions that happen briefly and at random and they only decide to fire it off a few minutes before launch, when those particular conditions are detected. So again, your question was a very good one.

Regarding surprise unannounced launches, that is a frequent complaint by observers in California, where some military launches only forecast for a time interval of several hours. SpaceX launches are usually to-the-minute and announced on local wether forecasts.

MISSILE FREAK-OUT IN CALIFORNIA [NOV 7, 2015]
satobs.org...

Dec 22, 2017 Falcon 9 VAFB launch
satobs.org...

FH [falcon heavy] escape burn to Mars Feb 06, 2018 observed from SW USA
satobs.org...

Observations of the SpaceX launch on October 7, 2018:
satobs.org...

UFOs are just a trick to hide real criminal pedophilia and corruption behind the Govts of Norwat and Denmark ... and they royals who organize child soldier trafficking in the middle east and Africa ... not to mention drug and organ trafficking in the Balkans

originally posted by: Flanker86
UFOs are just a trick to hide real criminal pedophilia and corruption behind the Govts of Norwat and Denmark ... and they royals who organize child soldier trafficking in the middle east and Africa ... not to mention drug and organ trafficking in the Balkans

AH yes, the old UFO are a coverup for XYZ

One, who the hell would use UFO for a coverup, seriously, to cover up anything...????? Who is going to take that scent up and run with it..

Secondly, and you have proof of what you speak, well I know you don't because if you did you would be too darn afraid to make a statement about it as you would be on a silencers list.

Very very few people in this world deliberately try their hardest to get themselves killed..

While I'm sure such depraved behaviour may well happen its hardly going to be outed by one person on a forum..Especially a UFO forum.

But on a return to normality and on topic-ness.....

UFO's are real, its what they are that's unknown...

UFOs and aliens are indeed a Norwegian Royals' manufactured cover-up for their eugenics experiments on people in their everlasting bid to manufacture Das Ubermensch, as good old Mengele taked them and their nazi labs to do in Norway during WW2