Son shoots and kills home invasion suspect who terrorized family in SW Houston

originally posted by: DictionaryOfExcuses
a reply to: roadgravel

I'm not well-versed in the legal subtleties but isn't it problematic that the son shot at the suspects as they fled?

Yeah I would say its definitely problematic when armed criminals take your family hostage because now this guy may have some psychological issues for the rest of his life.

If you're concerned with the legal consequences of killing a retreating, armed, home invader, I guess that would depend on the laws of the state.

Some things that come to mind that may be relevant:

Where exactly is the border line where youre not allowed to shoot at them anymore? If theyre in your room, taking your family hostage, beating, raping, stealing, you know...just doin their thing... and you reach for your gun when they're not looking and immediately start to aim, proceed to disarm the safety, pull back the hammer, etc., and before you get a shot off, they all very clearly "notice" that you have a gun and start to escape, down the hallway, down the stairs, through the kitchen, out the side door, across the drive way, etc...

Are you still allowed to pull the trigger inside the bedroom when they first started to try to get away? I mean, technically, the danger is over, right? Theyre scared and running, although still inside your house. It would still take almost 15 seconds for them to get all the way outside and even then theyre still on your property. Are they still considered a threat from a legal standpoint as long as they are still on your property?

Just cause they ran at the sight of a gun, doesnt mean the danger is over with. They could be going to their vehicle to grab a grenade or homemade explosive to lob in through your window as they leave, to eliminate witnesses cause they are now big time wanted felons if this gets out...

I say dont stop shooting until they stop moving.

Im thinking the law/judge/jury would say that hes good as long as he didnt get into a vehicle to pursue them. I bet you could keep shooting at them halfway down the street so long as you didn't step TOO far off your property.

Technically he couldve pursued them in a vehicle, he just couldn't continue shooting at them after he entered public streets in his vehicle. (which, yes, would be as soon as he leaves his own driveway. but some people do have long driveways.)

Although pursuing any criminal is almost always discouraged by police. They don't want us to realize we actually dont need them. Ok we need them, but we SHOULDN'T need them. The entire community should be an interlocked network of capable, informed people. Its weird that only a very small micro minority of people are considered capable of stopping crime.

The other thing is, even if he was technically wrong, which I dont think he will be found to be (have they even said his age? im assuming adult over 21, but...?), there would still be some leeway due to the fact that citizens are Not trained and so there is no "right way" to behave when your family is in immediate danger. There just isn't. He could easily claim some stress, and seeing as how he may suffer PTSD, a jury would hopefully be sympathetic, but I doubt he would ever be put in front of any jury. Any prosecutor should see this is a dead end case and a waste of taxpayer money.

A POS is dead. We'll just leave it at that. That doesn't take away from the sadness the killers family will experience that they most likely didn't deserve, and it doesnt take away from the sadness that every single day, people are throwing away their life like this, but what we certainly arent gonna do is tell this boy hes done something wrong.

Detectives say the remaining two suspects got away in the father's silver Toyota Sienna minivan with Texas license plate DGL-3948. 

Beware suspects are considered armed and dangerous...



If I had a long driveway I would shoot through the windshield like this LV cop. 2min video, skip to the middle, the shooting starts soon after. You can see he first starts to put his arm out his window then he's like "wtf am i doing? ill just shoot directly through my windscreen! HAHA!"

Texas law is highly particular to the facts of the case. Yet there is precedent that is someone is fleeing and you cannot identify them (in other words, they will get away with their crime), that you can shoot them if they've committed a violent felony.

You can also shoot if a reasonable person believes the assailant(s) may return soon to complete the crime. For instance one is heard telling the other that he is out of ammunition and is going to the car.

There are three basic systems of criminal state law in the US: New York-based, California based,...and Texas.

Texas does not have degrees of murder, for example. TV always gets that wrong. There is murder, and there is capital murder, which means you can get the death penalty for it. Capital murder is generally committing a murder in the furtherance of a felony. Shooting a guard in the middle of a bank robbery for example.

All of this matters because Texas law takes a very dim view of brandishing a weapon, and also firing warning shots. Both of these are considered "deadly conduct" in Texas law. But if someone else has already engaged in deadly conduct, you can pretty much escalate the level of force to life and limb levels.

So, you can shoot somebody for waving a gun at you. You may still be charged with a a crime, but the legal language is "it is a defense to prosecution" that the assailant was engaged in deadly conduct, when the gun in your pants fell out and shot him through the eye. You don't just walk away, but your lawyer can use it as a "defense to prosecution." It all depends on what a grand jury thinks. since Texas still has jury nullification.

a reply to: roadgravel

They need to teach these girls how to shoot! A pistol there, and they didn't use it? Arm the whole family! Nice work on the part of the son.

One other thing that comes to play in texas is did the criminal drop his weapon before being shot.

In texas you can still shot a fleeing but still armed and dangerous criminal.

Why because he may just be looking for cover to return fire. this might leave you in the open and him protected.

originally posted by: DictionaryOfExcuses

I'm not well-versed in the legal subtleties but isn't it problematic that the son shot at the suspects as they fled?

It's state by state and Texas is very gun friendly when it comes to protecting home, property and life.

originally posted by: TheTruthRocks
It may be--depending on the facts of the case.

But it's hot in Houston this time of year. Good on the boy for caring enough to ventilate the bad guys.

Ventilate... but guns are just tools.

Nek time he should spoon whip them.

Oh wait, spoons don't count in this case. And remember, the perps had pistol whipped dad too..

too many pistols.. nahhh.. could have been a fork.

originally posted by: MisterSpock

originally posted by: DictionaryOfExcuses
a reply to: roadgravel

I'm not well-versed in the legal subtleties but isn't it problematic that the son shot at the suspects as they fled?

Sometimes, depends on the area.

This was texas, last I recall you can shoot people on your property for the most part.

God bless texas.

On your property, or leaving it?

So you can shoot the police if they just stand at your door? or the postman? Because they're on your property?

Or the paperboy if he comes too close?

No problems with that idea, huh.... on your property...

originally posted by: JFA13
a reply to: MisterSpock

This is correct. In Texas if they are on your property it does not matter which way they are heading.

Lmfao.. WOW...

sounds cool. trick or treat..

a reply to: gallop

I think guns should be illegal, better the man and son get killed and the women raped. Those boys were turning their life around I heard.

originally posted by: gallop

originally posted by: MisterSpock

originally posted by: DictionaryOfExcuses
a reply to: roadgravel

I'm not well-versed in the legal subtleties but isn't it problematic that the son shot at the suspects as they fled?

Sometimes, depends on the area.

This was texas, last I recall you can shoot people on your property for the most part.

God bless texas.

On your property, or leaving it?

So you can shoot the police if they just stand at your door? or the postman? Because they're on your property?

Or the paperboy if he comes too close?

No problems with that idea, huh.... on your property...

The commission of a certain level of crime has occurred before the shooting. I think you know that fact though.

In North-Central Texas, we call that an opportunity to do the Lord's work....nice shootin, Tex.

I have no problem with this after looking everything over...Move along S&F

originally posted by: Arnie123
Got one of them right in the head.

That’s so funny.

a reply to: 3n19m470
Awesome video

I probably would’ve fired more rounds but that’s just me.

In ny a man shot a man who was running down the sidewalk after robbing his house.

He got in big trouble, they said he could not shoot a fleeing suspect or something that was not on his property

a reply to: Bloodworth

In NY I believe if the Suspect is running to take cover behind your couch to shoot you and you shoot them in the back you will go to jail because you can't prove he was not trying to flee and he was hit in the back.

In NY you also have a duty to retreat, so you need to prove you could not run away from your house, or you are also in trouble. If someone is trying to break into your house the law states you MUST flee and run away. Coming to an American state near you, brought to you by Progressives.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

That whole abandoning your home thing is mind boggling.

Americans are too obese to be expected to flee anyplace. Fight because flight Is not an option.



Old people are already the most vulnerable population. Easy for a predator to hunt them down outside the house.


I don't live anywhere that didn't have a castle doctrine, or something similar. (Texas doesn't have any castles. and you may be in a hotel room or an RV. Texas law just says "no duty to retreat". The duty being disobeyed is the criminal's duty not to break the law....)

To the point of this thread, Houston/Harris County is about the only place where you see yankee-style home invasions by a stranger in Texas. Houston and the I-35 corridor is more and more anti-bill of rights.

Cross the Brazos the the west and things get old school real fast. Judge Roy Bean style. I mean, grand juries are liable to use Black's Law Dictionary (the 1891 version), Leviticus/Deuteronomy, and the Constitution; and skip the rest.

a reply to: Graysen

Yep, liberal states have crazy self defense laws.