Country Music, Hip Hop, & Racism - Lil Nas X

a reply to: knowledgehunter0986

Billy Ray Cyrus? Didn't he have like one hit song. I'm not sure that qualifies as a legend.

I have no problem with people making whatever music they want. I'll just classify it according to my opinion like anyone else. In this case pure garbage.

originally posted by: knowledgehunter0986
I see a lot of people hating.

If this doesn't belong on the Country charts (which it does), a lot of other cross-genres songs don't deserve to be on other charts either.

Georgia Florida Line and Taylor Swift have both crossed into hip-hop without being completely hip-hop -- MANY times.

If you don't like the song, just say you don't like it. But to go as far as saying it's not country and deserves to be removed is just straight up close-minded hate.

I bet if you removed Lil Nas from the song and left Billy Ray, none of you would have a problem.

So when i say this is not country music, iam a closed minded hater? (that sounds hatefull)

Could you please explain to me why you think this music is country music. I mean, which elements from country is used in this song?

I do hear a few elements of country, but it is nothing compared to the elements from so many other genres.
People mix all kind of different genres in their music these days, and it again creates so many new subgenres, that it is really hard to classify a song. So please dont hate on us, just because we dont think this is country music.

If you enjoy the music, does it really matters what other people call the music? Does it in anyway affect your enjoyment you get from listening to it?
People are not haters, just because they dont think some music is the same genre as you think it is.

To be fair, all songs only deserve to be listed in 1 genre on the billboard chart, the dominat one. Country is not the dominant genre in this song, so it should be put in another group.
I have no idea how billboard handles their charts, and neither do i care. It has NOTHING to do with music, only money.
So if your a true music lover, why would you even care? I could understand, if you thought this song was wrongly classified as one genre, and should be in another, then you would have evidence to support it. Your only argument this should be country, is that Billy Ray said it was so...

So why is this so obviously country to you? Please share your knowledge of music with us, instead of just calling us haters for not agreeing with you.

originally posted by: zosimov
a reply to: Edumakated

Haha and here I was thinking that Nappy Roots was sort of country. But listening now.. yeah. There's no country music element that I can hear at all.

Still down south dirty

Exactly what I mean. Nappy Roots used country themes / samples but they were clearly hip hop artist. No confusion. Lil Nas X is a bit more ambiguous.

Maybe after he puts another song out I might put him back in hip hop, but right now he appears to be straight country to me. Regardless, I like what this young man is doing.

Even though I'm a hip hop head, I like all forms of music. I know good music when I hear it.

a reply to: trustmeimdoctor

If you wish to remain closeted in your views and keep the barriers up, that's your prerogative.

Do you bro.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: bobs_uruncle
a reply to: Edumakated

Sounds like a hip hop stunt to try and use horses and call it country. Sticking a flower in your ass doesn't make it a vase, either. Using the race card to promote an inaccurate description, priceless lol.

Cheers - Dave

Haters going to hate...

Clearly didn't watch his interview... but that's ok.

Anybody can say anything, it doesn't mean that it means anything. If it sounds like hip hop, it's hip hop, if it sounds like rap, it's rap, if it sounds like country, it's country. If it's a hybrid mix of hip hop and country, it's neither. Where's the hate, this is rational observation. Maybe we should mic some rap and opera and call it crapera, because it would be neither rap nor opera.

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

First of all, the onus is on you to prove it isn't country -- not the other way around. You yourself said there are country elements in it, and the artist himself classified it as country, what more is needed? Who are we to judge somebody else's art?

I'm not even mad at your opinion, or anyone else's. My problem is if this should be removed from the Country charts, many other songs from other charts should be removed as well. I am not even a fan of country, but I can clearly see that this move was unjustified.

Something tells me their decision wasn't based solely on the country elements, or lack thereof.

And as far as me calling you or anyone else a close-minded hater, if you don't personally think it's country, that's perfectly fine. But if you're in agreement that it should be removed based on your opinion of it, then my statement stands.

It was almost 20 years ago when Bone Thugs came out with Ghetto Cowboy. Throwback:

a reply to: knowledgehunter0986

First of all, the onus is on you to prove it isn't country -- not the other way around. You yourself said there are country elements in it, and the artist himself classified it as country, what more is needed? Who are we to judge somebody else's art?

I proved it allready in earlier post. 30 seconds of banjo doesnt make a song country. And Billboard seems to agree with me.
30 seconds of electric guitar in a Justin Timberlake song doesnt make that song heavy either. But we can agree this song does have some elements of country in it, I just believe it got more elements from other genres, and should be labeled as one of those instead.

I'm not even mad at your opinion, or anyone else's. My problem is if this should be removed from the Country charts, many other songs from other charts should be removed as well. I am not even a fan of country, but I can clearly see that this move was unjustified.

This i can understand, it seems funny how they seems to label music differently. But it is also really really hard to classify songs these days, with all the cross mixing of genres.

If this song is played on a country radio station, it should be ranked country like all the other songs on that station. But when it comes to sales, it is a lot harder. I think it is either list it on all charts it got elements from, or try to figure out one genre it could fit under, and only list it on that chart.

Something tells me their decision wasn't based solely on the country elements, or lack thereof.

You allready know i dont think this song belongs in country, but i will also have to agree with you, that their decisions properly are based on a lot of other factors aswell. They dont represent music, they only represent money making.

And as far as me calling you or anyone else a close-minded hater, if you don't personally think it's country, that's perfectly fine. But if you're in agreement that it should be removed based on your opinion of it, then my statement stands.

Personally i couldnt care less what charts they put this song, or any other songs for that matter, on. I dont listen to music because others do, but because i like it myself.
But again, i wouldnt classify this a country, and if i made those list, i wouldnt have it on a country list either.
That doesnt mean i have anything against the song or the genres in the song. It is just that in my mind, i doesnt fit in that box. I dont think that would make me a hater. It is not personal. I just love music, and think it can be fun to try to figure out what genre a song is sometimes, cause it can be really hard these days.

What charts has the song been listed on instead of the country chart? Do any of you guys know?

a reply to: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

It's #1 on the billboard top 100, which is the most important list. It's almost as if Fate is giving Billboard the finger.

Again, my only issue is Billboards inconsistency, which tells me their is probably some sort of agenda going on.

I heard somebody say in an interview that there have only been like 4 black artists to ever crack the top 20 on the country charts (and Lil Nas being the latest, prior to being removed). I'm paraphrasing here, so the numbers may be off, but it's somewhere in this ballpark.

originally posted by: knowledgehunter0986
a reply to: trustmeimdoctor

If you wish to remain closeted in your views and keep the barriers up, that's your prerogative.

Do you bro.

Why so serious? It's just my opinion.

this is hip hop with lyrics about the country.

This is not country.

The color of their skin has nothing to do with the song being removed.

If four white racist moonshiners wearing flannels with 4 foot beards who lived in the country and were raised by Wheeler Walker Jr. made this exact song they would still say this is not country.

originally posted by: knowledgehunter0986
a reply to: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

First of all, the onus is on you to prove it isn't country -- not the other way around. You yourself said there are country elements in it, and the artist himself classified it as country, what more is needed? Who are we to judge somebody else's art?

I'm not even mad at your opinion, or anyone else's. My problem is if this should be removed from the Country charts, many other songs from other charts should be removed as well. I am not even a fan of country, but I can clearly see that this move was unjustified.

Something tells me their decision wasn't based solely on the country elements, or lack thereof.

And as far as me calling you or anyone else a close-minded hater, if you don't personally think it's country, that's perfectly fine. But if you're in agreement that it should be removed based on your opinion of it, then my statement stands.

Curious, but do you think Johnny Cash's "A boy named Sue" could be considered hip hop?

a reply to: Edumakated

I'm torn on this. On one hand there have been a few examples of hick hop that have made it onto the Billboard previously (Cowboy Troy's 'I Play Chicken with the Train," Florida Georgia Line's "This is How We roll," and Ryan Upchurch...) so I don't know that this was exactly Billboard slamming against something brand new and revolutionary. On the other hand, I honestly thought the song was a joke the first few times I heard it. Controversy sells, though, and Billboard made Lil Nas a lot of money because way more folks are checking out the song now than ever would have if they'd just allowed it to holistically live it's chart life and fade into the obscurity of past one-hit wonders that have made their way onto the chart.

a reply to: knowledgehunter0986

Ok cool

Like i said, Billboards are not about the music. I stopped paying attention to them a long time ago, for the exact same reason. I wouldnt be suprised if there is some sort of sinister reason behind them removing him from the Country charts.
Money and racism could very well be that reason.

And sadly it is not just the Billboards that has a problem. The music industry is filled with greedy people/companies and the artists behind the music, is often abused and used by these people. Lucky enough for us music lovers, the internet is providing a platform for artist who wants to share their music, and true music lovers will give them due credit, despise what the industry thinks and want us to do.

I dont think this belong in the country charts, but youre absolutely right, it should be the same for all artist, and others have been on the charts with songs that should have been removed aswell.
Sadly i dont think there is any other way to change this, than to avoid and ignore the Billboards completly, dont make them any money, dont pay them any attention. Let them fade away to oblivion and support those who´s about the music instead - its the only way.

a reply to: Tartuffe

I don't really hear any modern hip-hop elements, but if he were to classify it as such, who am I to argue? The art belongs to the artist, and like I keep saying, music knows no boundaries.

But interesting you brought up Johnny Cash, as he was one of the first artists to be outlawed by country music because his lyrics were so different. And look at him now.

originally posted by: knowledgehunter0986
a reply to: Tartuffe

I don't really hear any modern hip-hop elements, but if he were to classify it as such, who am I to argue? The art belongs to the artist, and like I keep saying, music knows no boundaries.

But interesting you brought up Johnny Cash, as he was one of the first artists to be outlawed by country music because his lyrics were so different. And look at him now.

Yes and no. It's romanticized to say his lyrics got him blacklisted. That was likely a part of the problem, but same with Hank Williams Sr and a host of others (Jerry Lee Lewis comes to mind) his addictions to drugs and alcohol and the impact those addiction had on his dependability, performance, and actions on stage played a big role, too. Cash was banned from the Grand Ol Opry because he drunkenly smashed out all the stage lights during a performance.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

I'll admit I don't know much about his history beyond what I wrote. But looking back in retrospect, do you think they regretted it at all? I don't think he would've been as great had it not been for his demons. This same logic could be applied to many other artists as well, across all genres.

Some of the greatest music ever made were made during the darkest of times and under some heavy influence.

a reply to: knowledgehunter0986

I think the producers regret it because of the money they clearly left on the table by passing on him. Especially since his death, he's been a massive revenue producer for the producers who took a chance on him. I do not think the Grand Ol Opry regrets any of the people they've blackballed, however. They're too institutionalized and rigid to acknowledge they made mistakes. Their recent history of artists who play the 10+ per year Opry appearances required for membership are proof of that... you see very few, if any, currently charted stars appearing there but it's near impossible to get guys like John Conlee, Larry Gatlin, Ricky Skaggs, and Charlie Daniels off the stage. Now, obviously I can sit all day and enjoy listening to Common Man, Miss Emily's Picture, All the Gold in California, I Wouldn't Change you if I Could, and well... CDB doesn't exactly play my favorite songs (or versions thereof) live anymore, but I'm sure whatever he's playing sounds mighty fine, but none of those artists are exactly modern day cash cows, so I just don't think the Opry cares that deeply. Their clientele expects certain messages, behavior, and images and if someone doesn't fit those, regardless of how popular they may be in the mainstream, putting them on stage and promoting them risks souring their regulars. The CMAs last weekend posted record low ratings... that tells you how profitable it has been for country music to "modernize."

ETA: For the record, I love alternative/outlaw country and always have. David Allan Coe is the bee's knees in my book... but those guys haven't made the big bucks in Nashville.

a reply to: LightSpeedDriver

Me likey

Chorus, 8 bars, chorus, 8 bars, chorus. That is definitely a rap song , except a quality lyricist would have 16 bars a verse. I just don't see what's wrong with it being on the country charts if country radio stations are playing it. I also wouldn't consider the song art, I would consider it marketing.