Trump tells Russia to leave Venezuela-All options open

Trump is right. Nothing, including intervention, should be off the table. If Venezuelans cannot help themselves, the only ones that can help Venezuelans now is the United States and a coalition of allies.

a reply to: Tartuffe

If Venezuelans cannot help themselves, the only ones that can help Venezuelans now is the United States and a coalition of allies.

In my head, I see a bunch of Iraqi's, Libyan's, and Syrian's laughing at that statement.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Tartuffe

If Venezuelans cannot help themselves, the only ones that can help Venezuelans now is the United States and a coalition of allies.

In my head, I see a bunch of Iraqi's, Libyan's, and Syrian's laughing at that statement.

That's strange, because I never mentioned any of them.

I see Venezuelans being left to die while folks such as yourself deflect to unrelated campaigns.

a reply to: Tartuffe

I see Venezuelans being left to die while folks such as yourself deflect to unrelated campaigns.

Just going off of the recent track record.

There are countries all across the world in bad shape. Such is the world, its sad, but we can't help them all.

Seeing as we usually leave a place worse than when we got there, I see humanity in opposing intervention. Whatever makes me sleep at night, yea?

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Tartuffe

I see Venezuelans being left to die while folks such as yourself deflect to unrelated campaigns.

Just going off of the recent track record.

There are countries all across the world in bad shape. Such is the world, its sad, but we can't help them all.

Seeing as we usually leave a place worse than when we got there, I see humanity in opposing intervention. Whatever makes me sleep at night, yea?

Letting a dictator oppress his people based on the assumption that it might be worse if we intervened wouldn't help me sleep well at night, that's for damned sure.

originally posted by: Tartuffe

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Tartuffe

I see Venezuelans being left to die while folks such as yourself deflect to unrelated campaigns.

Just going off of the recent track record.

There are countries all across the world in bad shape. Such is the world, its sad, but we can't help them all.

Seeing as we usually leave a place worse than when we got there, I see humanity in opposing intervention. Whatever makes me sleep at night, yea?

Letting a dictator oppress his people based on the assumption that it might be worse if we intervened wouldn't help me sleep well at night, that's for damned sure.

So how do you feel about the dictators we go straight pass letting oppress their people, and providing support for them (the dictators)?

originally posted by: CriticalStinker

originally posted by: Tartuffe

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Tartuffe

I see Venezuelans being left to die while folks such as yourself deflect to unrelated campaigns.

Just going off of the recent track record.

There are countries all across the world in bad shape. Such is the world, its sad, but we can't help them all.

Seeing as we usually leave a place worse than when we got there, I see humanity in opposing intervention. Whatever makes me sleep at night, yea?

Letting a dictator oppress his people based on the assumption that it might be worse if we intervened wouldn't help me sleep well at night, that's for damned sure.

So how do you feel about the dictators we go straight pass letting oppress their people, and providing support for them (the dictators)?

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.

You mentioned the Syrians as laughing at the idea of intervention, but not that they felt betrayed and were left to fend for themselves by Obama's inaction with the whole "red-line" ordeal, something I imagine you would have supported at the time.

a reply to: Tartuffe

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.

The basis of our discussion is rooted about what our action should be towards a dictatorship oppressing it's people.

So how do you feel about us supporting more dictators than we overthrow? *bonus tidbit, usually the ones we overthrow are ones we hoisted up*

You mentioned the Syrians as laughing at the idea of intervention, but not that they felt betrayed and were left to fend for themselves by Obama's inaction with the whole "red-line" ordeal, something I imagine you would have supported at the time.

In 99% situations, you can assume I'm against any direct action solely done by the US. Aside from them all turning into quagmires, they cost money and young people (on both sides).

One of the definitions of insanity is trying the same thing over and over expecting different results.

Personally I doubt anyone in the decision making roles have any weight in their shot calls based in humanity and not investment.

I won't sway from that belief, and I doubt you will from yours.

I will say I truly believe you believe what you do out of kindness and empathy, and do not see malice in your views. I get what you're saying, I just strongly disagree.

Monroe Doctrine is still in effect despite John Kerry’s declarations and Trump has mentioned a few times already.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Tartuffe

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.

The basis of our discussion is rooted about what our action should be towards a dictatorship oppressing it's people.

So how do you feel about us supporting more dictators than we overthrow? *bonus tidbit, usually the ones we overthrow are ones we hoisted up*

You mentioned the Syrians as laughing at the idea of intervention, but not that they felt betrayed and were left to fend for themselves by Obama's inaction with the whole "red-line" ordeal, something I imagine you would have supported at the time.

In 99% situations, you can assume I'm against any direct action solely done by the US. Aside from them all turning into quagmires, they cost money and young people (on both sides).

One of the definitions of insanity is trying the same thing over and over expecting different results.

Personally I doubt anyone in the decision making roles have any weight in their shot calls based in humanity and not investment.

I won't sway from that belief, and I doubt you will from yours.

I will say I truly believe you believe what you do out of kindness and empathy, and do not see malice in your views. I get what you're saying, I just strongly disagree.

The question is a moral one. Do you help the victims of violent oppression or stand by and watch? Personally, I'm inclined to do something much more than I'm inclined to do nothing.

Each case, of course, is different. If you show me a dictator doing the same things I will have the same inclination.

a reply to: MisterMcKill

The Russians are not there to "inflame" anything. They are there (by invitation) to prevent the US from illegally overthrowing yet another government

So , no care for the Venezuelan people's will ?
I got ya

Maduro GOOD
Russia GOOD

Venezuelan people BAD
US BAD

Denying ignorance
Why ?
Sometimes it runs rampant on ATS

All options are open? Well according to many here Trump is not a puppet of the deep state then what is he doing saber rattling?
Just like his deep-state pro-Israel ass licking

Venezuela is a powder keg that is going to cause a humanitarian crisis of monumental proportions. A failed state will cause a refugee crisis spilling over into neighboring countries and eventually making its way towards the United States. Everything in the new world is our front and back yard we should consider this our problem. It is in our best interest that our neighbors yards are maintained otherwise their problems become our problems.

a reply to: Tartuffe

I think it's in our best interest to help Venezuela but I must remind myself of our terrible track record in "helping" other countries. This is a slippery slope, perhaps if we could a coalition of neighboring countries to clean things up then we could move on to eradicating the cartels.

Nothing will happen. It's all big mouth, small D. Look at NK.

So... we meddle in Venezuela's oil industry, cut off their refining, then sanction them to the point that we ruin their country and now we're the best people to also save them? Oh jesus. In theory we do have some responsibility seeing as we drove them into the ground. But in practice, the USA sucks at helping, almost universally. And considering Trump's chest puffing with NK, his false bravado doesn't help anything in that regard either (big surprise).

hmm new cuba crisis coming up lolllllllllllllllllllllll
oeps thougt Venezuela had an border with the US ...

you forgott to mention that the crisis was coused by US sanctions (the normal way to clear the path of taking over an oil producing country …
so wats the issue ??????


a reply to: conspiracy nut

a reply to: EchoesInTime

Trump should just walk away from Venezuela.

If the people want socialism, then let them suffer.

If the people there want something different?

Then they should fight for it.

a reply to: EchoesInTime

Good to see him taking a hard line stance against the scourge of socialism and communism wherever those two discredited and objectively wrong ideologies rear their ugly head. The United States is not safe with socialism/communism in the World, and taking concrete steps towards its utter and absolute elimination is the best way to ensure our own security, prosperity and success (as well as maintaining the existing US-lead international order)

An invasion is unwarranted however, since there is an interim President and legislative body ready to step in. Therefore, IMO, the most reasonable course of action would be to eliminate Maduro with a drone strike (or other lethal strike) along with the HQ of his socialist party and the known locations of anyone in his illegitimate line of secession.

One thing is clear, however, that Maduro must and shall meet the same fate as Saddam Husein and other tin-pot pukes.