Beyond Bigelow & BAASS, After AATIP and on To the Stars...

originally posted by: celltypespecific

originally posted by: Shere Khaan

originally posted by: TheGoondockSaint

originally posted by: celltypespecific

originally posted by: TheGoondockSaint

originally posted by: pigsy2400
a reply to: celltypespecific

Usage of holographic projections is something even Vallee toyed with once.

Spoofing radar is relatively easy in all fairness but we cannot say as we don't have access to that information or the radar data.

I also find it interesting that it's all Nimitz this and nimitz that. The later "sightings" don't seem to get much attention which I find curious.

Wasn't there a report about something underwater near the tic tac sighting?

Yes... I was thinking that the device underwater was the machine used to project the Tic-Tac..?

That's exactly what I've been thinking all along! Secret sub pops up and is basically a hologram projector to make fake objects shiw up on enemy radar. There's no stopping that!

Maybe land would stop it?

Bob Lazar's Ufo was an example of a land based UFO holographic projection. So no...land would not stop it.
Lazar's "UFO" would occur every Wednesday night...it was a black project to dump energetic particle beams into the atmosphere, thereby producing a "UFO" also it was effective at spoofing radar.

And he was also able to touch those holograms and work on their propulsion? Wow seems legit.

a reply to: Catch_a_Fire

Im thinking, its the only viable explanation the naysayers can find, and we all know they will use every available option to prove that ufos dont exist.


Much like ufology has developed, the art of debunking has to have developed too, swamp gas just wont cut it as a viable explanation for these events.

But UFOs do exist.

Even though the US Navy saying UFOs exist was a complete misnomer. There was and had been a policy in place specifically dealing with UFOs in the US military called JANAP 146. It had been in place since 1954.



However ufology as a whole is always reluctant to admit that any long held UFO cases are solvable beyond reasonable doubt. Or at least should be dismissed as lacking enough evidence to pursue research into more promising cases.

Would that be giving into the nasty sceptics and debunkers? Are they really trying to destroy your belief system because of a grand conspiracy? Or is it the people who blindly believe aliens are here (or at least promoting that to the masses) really don't want proper scientific research focused on the best cases?

I've heard TTSA supporters proclaiming how TTSA have at least moved the subject forward whilst old ufology has stood still for decades. And I have to, at least to some extent, agree.

Old ufology failed every step of the way. What did the likes of Stan Friedman really achieve? Or the modern heroes like Greer, Howe, Dolan, Pope, Cameron and Wilcock. They all eventually chose the easy money of endlessly serving up entertainment for those who like their ufology served on a plate in bite size chunks without checking the evidence. All disguised with a bitter dressing of government cover-ups and skullduggery to explain away why the truth you are being sold is coming from them. These people don't want disclosure. It would kill their livelihoods. Maybe they know the truth they try to promote does not exist?

Even the more abstract thinkers like Hynek, Vallee or Keel have all failed to date. There have been few if any real answers. Except for moments like when the Roswell slides were debunked. Ufology's only successes are when it trims the chaff away. But for some reason this is not acceptable to a huge group of people because it destroys their belief system and is deemed as proof of a grand conspiracy against them. Every classic UFO case was proof of alien contact. It cannot be anything else.

Ufology is still trapped in the 1950s and has barely moved on because there are too many people financially or emotionally invested into its past.

Debunking without an open mind is as useless as blind Believing.

Surely most of us fit into the "Sceptic" tank.

originally posted by: mirageman
Ufology is still trapped in the 1950s and has barely moved on because there are too many people financially or emotionally invested into its past.

Looking on the bright side, the lack of progress in Ufology since the 1950s means that the older cases from Ken Arnold onwards are equally valid for providing answers to the mystery as anything served up recently.

And comparatively little has been served up recently in terms of Big Cases. The Nimitz incident is 15 years old, even pre-dating the 2006 O'Hare Airport affair. We had the Stephenville lights in January 2008, but since then... what?

(Even the 2015 Gimbal and GoFast incident seems to have been quietly brushed under the carpet... the videos may have been suspect but why did TTSA allow the rest of the story to just peter out?)

originally posted by: mirageman
Ufology is still trapped in the 1950s and has barely moved on because there are too many people financially or emotionally invested into its past.

Exactly, and it's not just money, (I doubt they're getting rich appearing for the occasional comment on Ancient Aliens), IMO a lot has to do with ego. Lots of infighting among the 'experts' about who has the real version of the truth.

Blame the media as well, they mostly serve up the same old cases/stories, and dumb things down to appeal to the general public, not educated UFO enthusiasts. Which means things are embellished, exaggerated, or are simply incorrec tand misleading.

a reply to: mirageman

I agree with you, i also agree with your statement regarding older ufology, very little was achieved.

Im not a devout believer personally, its something i would like to be true (i think the shock of it would give this world the shake up it needs), but not one single account has made me 100% a believer.

The tictac and associated events (go fast, gimbal) came close to breaking those barriers i had regarding ufology, so all this talk of it simply being a new tech, from ourselves, was a little disheartening even if almost expected.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: Catch_a_Fire

Im thinking, its the only viable explanation the naysayers can find, and we all know they will use every available option to prove that ufos dont exist.


Much like ufology has developed, the art of debunking has to have developed too, swamp gas just wont cut it as a viable explanation for these events.

But UFOs do exist.

Even though the US Navy saying UFOs exist was a complete misnomer. There was and had been a policy in place specifically dealing with UFOs in the US military called JANAP 146. It had been in place since 1954.

However ufology as a whole is always reluctant to admit that any long held UFO cases are solvable beyond reasonable doubt. Or at least should be dismissed as lacking enough evidence to pursue research into more promising cases.

Would that be giving into the nasty sceptics and debunkers? Are they really trying to destroy your belief system because of a grand conspiracy? Or is it the people who blindly believe aliens are here (or at least promoting that to the masses) really don't want proper scientific research focused on the best cases?

I've heard TTSA supporters proclaiming how TTSA have at least moved the subject forward whilst old ufology has stood still for decades. And I have to, at least to some extent, agree.

Old ufology failed every step of the way. What did the likes of Stan Friedman really achieve? Or the modern heroes like Greer, Howe, Dolan, Pope, Cameron and Wilcock. They all eventually chose the easy money of endlessly serving up entertainment for those who like their ufology served on a plate in bite size chunks without checking the evidence. All disguised with a bitter dressing of government cover-ups and skullduggery to explain away why the truth you are being sold is coming from them. These people don't want disclosure. It would kill their livelihoods. Maybe they know the truth they try to promote does not exist?

Even the more abstract thinkers like Hynek, Vallee or Keel have all failed to date. There have been few if any real answers. Except for moments like when the Roswell slides were debunked. Ufology's only successes are when it trims the chaff away. But for some reason this is not acceptable to a huge group of people because it destroys their belief system and is deemed as proof of a grand conspiracy against them. Every classic UFO case was proof of alien contact. It cannot be anything else.

Ufology is still trapped in the 1950s and has barely moved on because there are too many people financially or emotionally invested into its past.

Important points:

They all eventually chose the easy money of endlessly serving up entertainment for those who like their ufology served on a plate in bite size chunks without checking the evidence.

too many people financially or emotionally invested into its past

a reply to: Catch_a_Fire

so all this talk of it simply being a new tech, from ourselves, was a little disheartening even if almost expected.

Don't be dishearten...if we do possess the tech displayed and characterized by Fravor that would a major paradigm shift, the most significant technological development in the history of human kind. Based on calculations from SCU we would be able to visit the nearest star system Proxima Centauri within 5 days...

Well boys and girls....it was fun while it lasted.....
To MM's earlier point in regards to money. TTSA is all about the Benjamins! Damn.... they have no self-respect by publishing the works of a straight-up socio-pathological liar...

www.thedrive.com...

Not the tic tac piece but interesting in context of recent discussions

originally posted by: celltypespecific
Based on calculations from SCU we would be able to visit the nearest star system Proxima Centauri within 5 days...

5 days for the crew of the spaceship,
42 years* for your mission control, friends and family not traveling at near relativistic speeds.


A lonely existence or maybe you could bring the kids???

*an estimate

originally posted by: celltypespecific
Well boys and girls....it was fun while it lasted.....
To MM's earlier point in regards to money. TTSA is all about the Benjamins! Damn.... they have no self-respect by publishing the works of a straight-up socio-pathological liar...

I assume by that you include once respected paranormal journalist George Knapp too. He's obviously in it for the money in this case having endorsed the book with his foreword? It's always been the case that got away for him. Never quite able to nail it for some reason?

a reply to: mirageman

Guess we need a tune then.

youtu.be...

a reply to: mirageman

First of all, great post mirageman, some crucial truths voiced there.

Regarding the more abstract thinkers (especially Vallee & Keel), I agree that they've failed in an objective sense, but I think they also succeeded in that they broadened our field of inquiry: instead of UFOs being either ET or a mundane explanation, they encouraged a conversation outside that simple binary. TTSA, on the other hand, has again reduced us to interpreting UFOs as either alien or mundane.

I don't want to take this too off-topic, but it really does seem a shame to me that we're still bogged down in the tech/physical angle. We've been at this for awhile (at least since the 1890s airships, especially after Arnold), simply interpreting the phenomena as per our current level of technological understanding. I know this is the natural way to come at it, but I would imagine that if UFOs were understandable in such a prosaic way that we would've had ACTUAL progress by now. The fact that we (arguably) haven't says to me that it's either outside our current scientific understanding or it will always be beyond our perceptual grasp.

The psychological aspect is interesting, too; even before the popularity of CEIII/contactee/abductee experiences, Jung wrote:

"the problem of the Ufos is, as you rightly say, a very fascinating one, but it is as puzzling as it is fascinating; since, in spite of all observations I know of, there is no certainty about their very nature. On the other side, there is an overwhelming material pointing to their legendary or mythological aspect. As a matter of fact the psychological aspect is so impressive, that one almost must regret that the Ufos seem to be real after all. I have followed up the literature as much as possible and it looks to me as if something were seen and even confirmed by radar, but nobody knows exactly what is seen."
source

So what's going on here? I sure as sh!t don't know, but it's an enduring mystery, & I wish we stopped getting drawn back to the purely 'ET or mundane' angle. But it also makes sense that we do... Ehhhhhhhh, I've had too much wine.

a reply to: Saturnschild

We've been at this for awhile (at least since the 1890s airships, especially after Arnold), simply interpreting the phenomena as per our current level of technological understanding. I know this is the natural way to come at it, but I would imagine that if UFOs were understandable in such a prosaic way that we would've had ACTUAL progress by now. The fact that we (arguably) haven't says to me that it's either outside our current scientific understanding or it will always be beyond our perceptual grasp.

One has to view the situation as one views a pie cut up in pieces. There will always be some with a big piece, the majority view, and others with a small piece and some even with mere slithers of the pie.

It’s the same in politics, they’ll always be liberals and conservatives with their pie shares, and libertarians, anarchists with their slithers or smaller pieces.

So, in ufology well have the ETH with their big piece of pie and the others with varying sizes of the pie.

Just like religion.

As long as we really don’t know, then they’ll always be different perspectives.

A different number of pieces of the pie.

When there's only one piece of the pie


...start running...fast!

originally posted by: TheGoondockSaint
Wasn't there a report about something underwater near the tic tac sighting?

originally posted by: celltypespecific
Yes... I was thinking that the device underwater was the machine used to project the Tic-Tac..?

originally posted by: TheGoondockSaint
That's exactly what I've been thinking all along! Secret sub pops up and is basically a hologram projector to make fake objects shiw up on enemy radar. There's no stopping that!

originally posted by: Shere Khaan
Maybe land would stop it?

originally posted by: celltypespecific
Bob Lazar's Ufo was an example of a land based UFO holographic projection. So no...land would not stop it.
Lazar's "UFO" would occur every Wednesday night...it was a black project to dump energetic particle beams into the atmosphere, thereby producing a "UFO" also it was effective at spoofing radar.

originally posted by: KiwiNite
And he was also able to touch those holograms and work on their propulsion? Wow seems legit.

KiwiNite, in case you haven't figured it out yet, Bob Lazar was a liar. He lied about his education and other things.

Regarding the discussion leading up to that, "energetic particle beam" seems like a good description for what Lazar likely showed to Gene Huff and others near Area 51 and I made a thread about that asking whether Fravor's "Tic-Tac" might also have been an energetic particle beam. I don't think "holographic" applies but you can see the UFO in the area 51 video has a "Tic-Tac" shape, the performace characteristics have a lot of similarities such as making maneuvers that are easy for a particle beam but impossible for an aircraft, and what Fravor said happened to the Tic-Tac to end his sighting, it "disappeared", easily accomplished by just turning off the particle beam but not so easy to make a solid aicraft disappear.

It's somewhat speculative but I attached links from a physicist in my thread who describes the physics of the energetic particle beam technology in some detail.

Was "Bob Lazar's" Area 51 technology related to Fravor's 2004 UAP sighting?

Is Zondo next....?

"Defense Intelligence Agency worker arrested on charges of leaking top-secret information to reporters"

An employee of the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency was arrested on federal charges that he leaked classified information, including details of a foreign country’s weapons systems, to two reporters in 2018 and this year.

“This indictment should serve as a clear reminder to all of those similarly entrusted with National Defense Information that unilaterally disclosing such information for personal gain, or that of others, is not selfless or heroic, it is criminal.”

But Zondo and TTSA gets a pass and release videos (for profit!!) that the pentagon clear states "SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN RELEASED"...hmmmm

Source

a reply to: celltypespecific


In their case maybe they wanted it released

February, 1989 case (in same area) similar to 'water disturbance' incident - unknown object emerges from ocean and releases other unknown objects before submerging (see 2:40)

link

a reply to: celltypespecific

Is Zondo next....? ....


But Zondo and TTSA gets a pass and release videos (for profit!!) that the pentagon clear states "SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN RELEASED"...hmmmm

Well remember when I told you there was a weak link or even a leak, wink!

And you told me ....

... please don't fall prey to the Dunning–Kruger effect

What about this?

The video makes some fairly damning claims that

Jeremy Corbell had his hands on the GoFast video in 2016

One and a half years before Zondo requested a release for it from the DoD.....




The youtube comments are below too.

2016/01/02 01:14:17 AM EST, vimeo clip 150511001, EAST COAST 2015 is uploaded

2018/03/09 Go Fast: Official USG Footage of UAP for Public Release" official USG video after official review by multiple government organizations. To The Stars Academy of Arts & Science was the first to obtain a copy, & footage was captured by a U.S. Navy F/A-18 Super Hornet using the Raytheon ATFLIR Pod of a Navy encounter that occurred off the East Coast of the United States in 2015 and the object in view remains unidentified.

2018/03/09 2:04 PM
jeremycorbell posts the "go fast" WALKER EAST COAST 2015 video on his instagram saying
Here is the third official Department Of Defense FLIR footage release of a UFO (or Anomalous Aerial Vehicle)... this one is a FASTWALKER from the East Coast in 2015. What do you think?

Mar 10 marekexp asks
Why was it posted 2 years ago on your vimeo account yet you don't even mention that? Is it supposed to be recent DOD release?

Mar 10 jeremycorbell answered
I just replaced an old video I didn’t need with new content. No mystery.

Mar 10 Chase Kuertz? said
Jeremy, this is the same video you have on your vimeo channel from two years ago. Can you explain this for us?

Mar 10 Kevin Burnes?
said It is the same video that tomdelonge released saying it was exclusive and a chain of custody and so on and so on!! What gives?? I remember seeing this video two years ago.

Mar 10 JEREMY CORBELL? said
You did not see it from me.

2018/03/10 4:51 PM
vimeo said JEREMY CORBELL erase his EAST COAST 2015 JEREMY KENYON LOCKYER CORBELL vimeo file from 2 years ago

Mar 11 JEREMY CORBELL? said
The issue is the original @SecureTeam10 video should be removed or this will go on and on

Mar 11 JEREMY CORBELL? said
I IMMEDIATELY deleted the upload to avoid further misinformation or confusion on the date of the original upload, and re-uploaded the same footage so the time-stamp would not cause MORE ridiculous conspiracy.
Mar 12 TormentedZombieOwl!? said
What I can't understand is why an experienced person as your self would make such an obvious mistake? This sows the seeds in distrust in you and makes us question everything else you've done. Sorry for being rude, but it's true

Mar 13 2018 Joe Barco said
Jeremy did say on f2b you had access to the videos that are going to be released.

Mar 13 JEREMY CORBELL replied
I’m sure that is not what I said exactly. Look at what exactly I said in that interview.

Everyone associated with him will be desperate and wading in to debunk this once again. But his actions are suspect wouldn't you all say?

Some thoughts on TTSA and the entertainment/financial stuff from UFO Jesus for what it's worth:

TTSA has an entertainment division to help fund their operation. Could they survive without the entertainment division? I'm not sure they could. Something to consider. Someone has to pay the salaries of the team members.— UFO Jesus (@PostDisclosure) October 10, 2019

The entertainment division is separate though. That's not dressing it up. That's just the details. I understand the controversy, but I also think that this conversation is useless if it's not recognized that the entertainment division is separate.— UFO Jesus (@PostDisclosure) October 10, 2019

The entertainment division is separate though. That's not dressing it up. That's just the details. I understand the controversy, but I also think that this conversation is useless if it's not recognized that the entertainment division is separate.— UFO Jesus (@PostDisclosure) October 10, 2019

Understandable. However, TTSA plans on getting their meta-material findings peer reviewed. They also got the USS Nimitz Event into the spotlight along w/ Fravor being interviewed all over the place. They are doing inherently legit things which stand on their own independently.— UFO Jesus (@PostDisclosure) October 10, 2019