Shamima Begum Who Left The UK To Join ISIS Is To Be Stripped Of Her U.K. Citizenship

We should just bring her back and lock her away for life, we'd be safer then anyway as we know where she is. Letting our government strip away a citizenship just like that is scary, won't be long before they are doing it for lesser crimes too.

originally posted by: Xabi87
We should just bring her back and lock her away for life,

Surely that would be for legal process and the law to consider her crimes and tariff?

Letting our government strip away a citizenship just like that is scary, won't be long before they are doing it for lesser crimes too.

Well, it's a power seldom used. Some of the dual nationals (mostly Pakistani) men convicted of child grooming will be deported after they serve their sentences. Should we let them stay?

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: Xabi87
We should just bring her back and lock her away for life,

Surely that would be for legal process and the law to consider her crimes and tariff?

Letting our government strip away a citizenship just like that is scary, won't be long before they are doing it for lesser crimes too.

Well, it's a power seldom used. Some of the dual nationals (mostly Pakistani) men convicted of child grooming will be deported after they serve their sentences. Should we let them stay?

Think the difference is that they have actually been convicted of something.

There is still of course the issue that we are expelling people for one way or another beiing undesirable yet expecting another country to accept them.

originally posted by: Xabi87
We should just bring her back and lock her away for life, we'd be safer then anyway as we know where she is. Letting our government strip away a citizenship just like that is scary, won't be long before they are doing it for lesser crimes too.

I fail to understand how incredibly relaxed or supportive so many people on here are about a Politcian having the ability to remove the citizenship of someone who hasn't actually been convicted or even charged with by crime.

On a site filled with posters that normally tell us all how evil/incompetent politicians are that seems remarkable.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
There is still of course the issue that we are expelling people for one way or another beiing undesirable yet expecting another country to accept them.

Well, if they are duel nationals then they have another country to go to.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Xabi87
We should just bring her back and lock her away for life, we'd be safer then anyway as we know where she is. Letting our government strip away a citizenship just like that is scary, won't be long before they are doing it for lesser crimes too.

I fail to understand how incredibly relaxed or supportive so many people on here are about a Politcian having the ability to remove the citizenship of someone who hasn't actually been convicted or even charged with by crime.

On a site filled with posters that normally tell us all how evil/incompetent politicians are that seems remarkable.

note an influx of (right-wing leaning) fresh accounts and one re-activated from pre 2010 that have recently appeared on-site
pushing a nasty agenda. similar embedding techniques and cutting their teeth in the american political forums before hopping the pond. scouting party for integrity initiative perhaps? guard the moat and hone the pikes!
f.
f.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: ScepticScot
There is still of course the issue that we are expelling people for one way or another beiing undesirable yet expecting another country to accept them.

Well, if they are duel nationals then they have another country to go to.

Sorry I think I wasn't clear. My point wasn't that a dual national hasn't got somewhere to go but that we expect another country to be ok with accepting someone we won't.

Say someone had dual UK & US citizenship. We decide that they are a threat to public safety but remove citizenship rather than charge them with any crime. The US is now obliged under international law to accept them (as it can't make them stateless).

That seems a rather dangerous race to the bottom of expelling people rather than dealing with the root issue.

originally posted by: fakedirt

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Xabi87
We should just bring her back and lock her away for life, we'd be safer then anyway as we know where she is. Letting our government strip away a citizenship just like that is scary, won't be long before they are doing it for lesser crimes too.

I fail to understand how incredibly relaxed or supportive so many people on here are about a Politcian having the ability to remove the citizenship of someone who hasn't actually been convicted or even charged with by crime.

On a site filled with posters that normally tell us all how evil/incompetent politicians are that seems remarkable.

note an influx of (right-wing leaning) fresh accounts and one re-activated from pre 2010 that have recently appeared on-site
pushing a nasty agenda. similar embedding techniques and cutting their teeth in the american political forums before hopping the pond. scouting party for integrity initiative perhaps? guard the moat and hone the pikes!
f.
f.

Normally right leaning posters are the most anti government.

Just find it weird how many, normally cynical about government people, are willing to accept that this is OK or even a good thing.

In the letter to Sajid Javid, seen by the BBC, they say they "cannot simply abandon her" and that her status is "a matter for our British courts".

Her family don't have to abbadon her!

Being duel Bangladeshi nationals they should move over there with her

originally posted by: ScepticScot
That seems a rather dangerous race to the bottom of expelling people rather than dealing with the root issue.

I disagree, though recognise it's complex. Those paedophiles who abused girls and women in grooming gangs have demonstrated that they need to be removed from the UK once they have served their time. This can be done as they have duel nationality, and thus have somewhere to go - typically back to Pakistan from whence many of them came.

Ok lets look at it this way as a part of the good friday agreement many men who fought against british soldiers and had killed british soldiers and citizens were released from prison!

They were given a trial and sentenced and not stripped of their citizenship
how come this girl has been without even getting a trial ?

Seems a bit mental
aye she has got herself into bother, but are we just willing to abandon any sense of justice
because despite her mistakes , she is still a human being and still entitled to a fair trial
as a UK citizen!

What should really be on trial here is the foreign minister and his Authoritarian move to revoke her citizenship!

originally posted by: Flavian

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: gortex

So you honestly don't think her being groomed as a minor changes anything? Like i said, if it was a paedo grooming her then she wouldn't be blamed.

The fact it was all kept from her parents by the authorities also puts a different spin on it (at least for me).

But then she is completely unapologetic.........

Fella, just stop.
A paedophile victim is not a terrorist. They are not hell bent on killing people.

Stop trying to make this case fit your narrative. Paedo's also groom - it is one way they get their victims. Terrorists also groom. Is only one type of grooming wrong?

And again, to be clear, she is not a terrorist. She has committed no known acts of terror. What she did (as a minor) is marry a terrorist. She may be abhorrent but that in itself isn't illegal.

She was a part of beheading's, she admitted to it in the interview. Did you watch the interview?

a reply to: pompel9

She was a part of beheading's, she admitted to it in the interview. Did you watch the interview?

Sorry I missed that bit, could you please direct me to where she actually says that?

I thought she said; ‘When I saw my first severed head it didn’t faze me at all’, I could easily be wrong.

Just to make it clear, I'm not trying to defend her in any way.
If she has indeed actually taken part in beheadings then no amount of arguing could convince me that she should be allowed home.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: ScepticScot
That seems a rather dangerous race to the bottom of expelling people rather than dealing with the root issue.

I disagree, though recognise it's complex. Those paedophiles who abused girls and women in grooming gangs have demonstrated that they need to be removed from the UK once they have served their time. This can be done as they have duel nationality, and thus have somewhere to go - typically back to Pakistan from whence many of them came.

That isn't really addressing my point in that by revoking the citizenship we are putting the burden of citizenship on another country.

Think of the reversed situation, what if Pakistan was to remove citizenship of any criminals who had dual UK citizenship. Would you feel happy about that?

I started looking into whether there have been any historical similarities or precedents.

Doing so I came across the story of the British Free Corps that consisted mainly of British and Commonwealth P.O.W.'s who were recruited by the Nazi's.

en.wikipedia.org...

Now I know it's not exactly the same and possibly a bit like comparing apples and oranges but what struck me was the leniency that was shown to the majority of these men.
Each case was treated on its own merits and some weren't even prosecuted.

The worst offenders were prosecuted; Merchant Seamen and civilians were tried at The Old Bailey and Servicemen were court martialled.

en.wikipedia.org...

The whole idea was spawned by John Amery - son of the Secretary of State for India and brother of Justin Amery who became a leading light in The Conservative Party for many years.
John Amery was tried for treason and subsequently hanged in December 1945.

en.wikipedia.org...

Now I'm not saying that this has much relevance on this case other than to show that in the past we have taken people back who worked for enemies of this country and tried them in accordance with our law.
It also seems that the law has been remarkably understanding in the past.

As it is I remain extremely conflicted on this case.
On other contemporary issues I firmly stated that we have to make sure we follow UK legal process and procedure and that we can not compromise on the principle of innocent until proven guilty.
I can not advocate adhesion to the legal procedure on one issue and advocate its dismissal on another.

I have many faults, I hope hypocrisy isn't one.

But try as I might I just can't summon one single shred of sympathy for this person and my heart tells me that she should rot in whatever #hole she is now and should never be allowed the opportunity to benefit from our values and systems or spread her message of hatred and bigotry in this country.

I really can't reconcile the two conflicting perspectives...heart v head, not easy.

a reply to: Freeborn

I really can't reconcile the two conflicting perspectives..... against heart, not easy.

Seems we are in the same place mate , conflicting perspectives sums it up perfectly , although it gives us something to think about other than Brexit which could be why this one girl has become an issue, the government showing they're acting decisively to protect the public interest rather than cocking up the one thing the public actually asked for.

I have a feeling that when the dust settles she will be brought back and TBH as long as due process is followed and hopefully an example is set I don't really care.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

Normally right leaning posters are the most anti government.

I'm right wing in that im Tory through and through (or have been) - just more to the centre than the right. And whilst i currently dislike Parliament because of the current generation of politicans, i am thoroughly behing Parliament.

Anyhoo, can't chat - "ra ra ra, i'm off to bash the oiks!"

originally posted by: Xabi87
We should just bring her back and lock her away for life, we'd be safer then anyway as we know where she is. Letting our government strip away a citizenship just like that is scary, won't be long before they are doing it for lesser crimes too.

At what expense would it cost to jail her for life?
And how many more are in jails that are not even citizens?
At what point does it cost too much to babysit bad people?

a reply to: ScepticScot

It's mad isn't, i used to browse these forums years ago and it was all about how the media and governments are working together to take away our freedoms ect. Now days we have everyone allowing the media to whip themselves into a frenzy and they are screaming at our governments to ignore referendums and strip away citizenships! Total 180.

I do think a case could be made for Daesh related things to be a special category.

Pretty much the whole of the civilized world was united against what Daesh stood for.
Even now, no one reasonable can excuse what they stand for, so perhaps we could, in view of the horrific nature of them, agree a set of laws beyond usual human rights ones allowing their supporters to be executed in a similar way to Nuremberg

Done right as an extraordinary measure, it should be safe from mission creep by politicians.