Bilderbergers

Originally posted by akilles
I remember being told it was no longer the time or place to discuss those things, so I wouldn't say I have ignored anything.

Once discussions were no longer about opinion, and exploring a topic, but having my word judged for its worth, and linking to the words of others EXCLUSIVELY ("What web site gave you your opinion? Which Masonic author did you misinterpret? If you aren't in Masonry right now, how can you talk? If you are in Masonry, you are dishonorable for mentioning anything that IS factual and personal experience").

Maybe you should ask your self why, Akilles. Your word is no longher valid. You have refused time and time again to back up your claims with hard fact, your claims mean ZILCH. You have been told this by several people, including moderators. If you would, for a change, start having conversations like normal people on this thread, instead of constantly your constant accusations, slander and sarcasm, then maybe this wouldn't be the case.

And it seems members of the most Symbolically Represented Organization in the world (more than any one country or company internationally) have no interest in their own symbolism. How unfortunate, but why keep others from discussing it?

I am VERY interested in my organization's symbolism. YOU, on the other hand, are interested in symbolism that YOU WISH was part of my organization, but it is not. If you want to discuss the REAL symbolism of my fraternity, I would gladly talk to you about this for weeks on end.

Why suggest numerology is only important to me, when clearly MANY Masons in the past have found it equally important, and how can you deny the symbolism in the measurement systems, of temperature, and distance?

Again, please provide evidence of ONE case where the number 13 was said to be important to masons. You already know the number 3 is, you've discussed it, I just don't understand why you're so adamant about making the number 13 relevant to something that it is definitely not.

You know what, I don't even know why I post in response to you. I'm going to keep PROVING my own thing, and I am going to keep interpreting symbolism for myself.
Connections, links, coincidences, similarities, friendships and business deals between members of Elite organizations will still be under my scrutiny, and just because the majority of Freemasons are not Elite does not mean I will be letting them off the hook with the GOOD ONES! As I've said, I don't blame the good ones for defending the bad ones, they hardly know what they are doing.

Now, where did the Continental Flag come from? No one knows, oh greatest of great mysteries! Hmm, its a union jack with 13 red and white stripes horizontally. 3 specific elements, if you will.
Well, what was the flag of the British East India Company that virtually ruled India for a few hundred years?
It is known from ATLEAST 1700, it flew ONLY a flag of 13 red and white stripes, with a union jack in the corner! Turns out the British East Indian Company had been using the red and white stripes for quite a while, and they alternated between 9 and 13 stripes depending mainly on if the flag was square or rectangular.


It is also known the US had a unique flag from 1795-1818, 23 years with 15 stripes truly representative of the country. But afterwards by Presidential decree it was changed back to 13 stripes! By a confirmed MASON. Never mind his wife was from a super-rich British family (the family which BRIGHAM YOUNG was from)...

Need I touch on why 1313 was important to the Knights Templar, who have MORE than a tenuous link with Freemasonry's origins (esp. in relation to its use of symbolism)..

Wouldn't you know it, President Monroe (mason) and President Nixon are related. And you know, this surely ties in with the Bilderbergers, but its not even hard, so I won't go there.

But I will relate one final quote "to the memory of William Morgan a captain in the war of 1812, a martyr to the freedom of writing, printing and speaking the truth.
He was abducted from near this spot in the year of 1826, by Freemasons, and murdered for revealing the secrets of their order. The court records of Genesee County, and files of the Batavia Advocate, kept in the recorder's office, contain the history of the events that caused the erection of this monument, September 13, 1882.
The bane of our civil institutions is to be found in Masonry, already powerful and daily becoming more so. I owe to my country an exposure of its dangers." - Captain William Morgan.

Dangers. Not inherent flaws. Not everything wrong. Just not something that you could 'love or leave' something that might need external review, and re-structuring. I mean, its not the Knights of the Garter, or something sacred.

Originally posted by akilles
You know what, I don't even know why I post in response to you. I'm going to keep PROVING my own thing, and I am going to keep interpreting symbolism for myself.
Connections, links, coincidences, similarities, friendships and business deals between members of Elite organizations will still be under my scrutiny, and just because the majority of Freemasons are not Elite does not mean I will be letting them off the hook with the GOOD ONES! As I've said, I don't blame the good ones for defending the bad ones, they hardly know what they are doing.

Now, where did the Continental Flag come from? No one knows, oh greatest of great mysteries! Hmm, its a union jack with 13 red and white stripes horizontally. 3 specific elements, if you will.
Well, what was the flag of the British East India Company that virtually ruled India for a few hundred years?
It is known from ATLEAST 1700, it flew ONLY a flag of 13 red and white stripes, with a union jack in the corner! Turns out the British East Indian Company had been using the red and white stripes for quite a while, and they alternated between 9 and 13 stripes depending mainly on if the flag was square or rectangular.


It is also known the US had a unique flag from 1795-1818, 23 years with 15 stripes truly representative of the country. But afterwards by Presidential decree it was changed back to 13 stripes! By a confirmed MASON. Never mind his wife was from a super-rich British family (the family which BRIGHAM YOUNG was from)...

Need I touch on why 1313 was important to the Knights Templar, who have MORE than a tenuous link with Freemasonry's origins (esp. in relation to its use of symbolism)..

Wouldn't you know it, President Monroe (mason) and President Nixon are related. And you know, this surely ties in with the Bilderbergers, but its not even hard, so I won't go there.

But I will relate one final quote "to the memory of William Morgan a captain in the war of 1812, a martyr to the freedom of writing, printing and speaking the truth.
He was abducted from near this spot in the year of 1826, by Freemasons, and murdered for revealing the secrets of their order. The court records of Genesee County, and files of the Batavia Advocate, kept in the recorder's office, contain the history of the events that caused the erection of this monument, September 13, 1882.
The bane of our civil institutions is to be found in Masonry, already powerful and daily becoming more so. I owe to my country an exposure of its dangers." - Captain William Morgan.

Dangers. Not inherent flaws. Not everything wrong. Just not something that you could 'love or leave' something that might need external review, and re-structuring. I mean, its not the Knights of the Garter, or something sacred.

Dear God! Your posts are starting to make about as much sense as greenmans! Did he mail you some of his mushrooms?

The number 13 has absolutely NO Masonic significance. None. Zilch. What does it take to convince you? (Why do I care?)

Show me PROOF PROOF PROOF that 13 is Masonically significant. You have none. EVERYTHING else of Masonic significance has been written about by MASONS....in legitimate Masonic books. Not the number 13. Want to know why? Because it has NO significance.

Oh, granted there's a 13th Degree in the Scottish Rite....but there's an 11th, a 24th, a 15th .... and several others too. 13 is not significant. PERIOD.

Originally posted by akilles
But I will relate one final quote "to the memory of William Morgan a captain in the war of 1812, a martyr to the freedom of writing, printing and speaking the truth.
He was abducted from near this spot in the year of 1826, by Freemasons, and murdered for revealing the secrets of their order. The court records of Genesee County, and files of the Batavia Advocate, kept in the recorder's office, contain the history of the events that caused the erection of this monument, September 13, 1882.
The bane of our civil institutions is to be found in Masonry, already powerful and daily becoming more so. I owe to my country an exposure of its dangers." - Captain William Morgan.

I'm going to be just like Akilles in this post:

Do you know FOR SURE that he was murdered? He had a book he wrote, an expose on masonry (which was mostly lies, by the way) coming out. His disappearance was nothing more than a publicity stunt in order to sell more books. Now let's see.. murdered for exposing secrets that had already been exposed by several sources, or purposely skipped town to MAKE MONEY?!? He was a greedy bastard and, like any other anti-masonic author, was simply trying to make money.

Now you see how easy it is to make claims without any evidence? Either way, neither you nor I have any proof of what we said, so it doesn't matter.


[edit on 30-3-2005 by sebatwerk]

Sebat, I can believe you are unable to follow the conversation of the thread. I didn't believe it at first, but now, you convinced me.

Regardless, you finally gave me a straight answer to my question. That is now cleared up. Thank you.

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"Come at Bilder Burgers TM and enjoy the snacks! Members of the world financial and political elite will receive 25% discounts on all Bilderburger custom combos including the Bilder Burger TM, a huge hamburger made with GMO lettuce and tomatoes, cheese product, grreeaazzzzy beef made from manflesh and Oil, Oil, more Oil!!! New this month: the Monsanto tartar quarterpounder TM, a special Bilder Burger, cooked by Bilderburger Chefs Paul Wolfowiz that will make your kids turn grrreeen with joy!"

What do you think?

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Sebat, I can believe you are unable to follow the conversation of the thread. I didn't believe it at first, but now, you convinced me.

Regardless, you finally gave me a straight answer to my question. That is now cleared up. Thank you.

I still don't understand what I did to have you bully me, insult me and try to intimidate me in this thread...?

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Sebat, I can believe you are unable to follow the conversation of the thread. I didn't believe it at first, but now, you convinced me.

Regardless, you finally gave me a straight answer to my question. That is now cleared up. Thank you.

I still don't understand what I did to have you bully me, insult me and try to intimidate me in this thread...?

That IS a bit peculiar.....especially coming from a Moderator. Curiouser and curiouser....

Sometimes I think you give too much evidence and people just ignore it.
So I reduced it to a palatable form.

Prominent Freemason Harry S. Truman, 33rd degree, 33rd president of the USA, became President exactly on cue to usher in a new era.

If you count 13 periods of 13 years(169 years from 1776-1945) (using the amount of steps in the Pyramid, of course!) from the Declaration of Independence, you find yourself on July 4, 1945. Count 33 days. You find yourself on the one day most symbolic of an ENTIRE era, that there could possibly be, the dropping of the Atomic Bomb on the 33 parallel, on Mission 13 (arbitrary!) by the Enola Gay.

Whats further, its no coincidence on what day George Washington was sworn in. As if it couldn't happen any day they want?
"Brother Washington became Worshipful Master on December 20, 1788, and was inaugurated President of the United States on April 30, 1789, thus becoming the first, and so far the only, Brother to be simultaneously President and Master of his Lodge."
OK, one is the day before the Winter Equinox (Master of his Lodge), the DARKEST day of the year, and who is receiving the light on that day, oh good Brother Washington.

Ok and the other, one day before May 1st (May day for the May Sons), the MOST important date in Occult sacrifice, and 'forcing the Spring' (ie. a new beginning). The Rite of Beltane, also called Roodmas (similar to Christmas, which was a few days after Washington's inauguration).

If you guys think EVERYTHING happens due to coincidence, all the power to you. I refuse to believe that possibility, and thus, am perceived by others to look 'where there is nothing'.

Originally posted by akilles
Sometimes I think you give too much evidence and people just ignore it.
So I reduced it to a palatable form.

Prominent Freemason Harry S. Truman, 33rd degree, 33rd president of the USA, became President exactly on cue to usher in a new era.

If you count 13 periods of 13 years(169 years from 1776-1945) (using the amount of steps in the Pyramid, of course!) from the Declaration of Independence, you find yourself on July 4, 1945. Count 33 days. You find yourself on the one day most symbolic of an ENTIRE era, that there could possibly be, the dropping of the Atomic Bomb on the 33 parallel, on Mission 13 (arbitrary!) by the Enola Gay.

Whats further, its no coincidence on what day George Washington was sworn in. As if it couldn't happen any day they want?
"Brother Washington became Worshipful Master on December 20, 1788, and was inaugurated President of the United States on April 30, 1789, thus becoming the first, and so far the only, Brother to be simultaneously President and Master of his Lodge."
OK, one is the day before the Winter Equinox (Master of his Lodge), the DARKEST day of the year, and who is receiving the light on that day, oh good Brother Washington.

Ok and the other, one day before May 1st (May day for the May Sons), the MOST important date in Occult sacrifice, and 'forcing the Spring' (ie. a new beginning). The Rite of Beltane, also called Roodmas (similar to Christmas, which was a few days after Washington's inauguration).

If you guys think EVERYTHING happens due to coincidence, all the power to you. I refuse to believe that possibility, and thus, am perceived by others to look 'where there is nothing'.

Akilles, please reference your material. Kindly post where you got your information above. Also, why is it that according to you EVERY significant location lies on the 33rd parallel, and what is the significance of the 33rd parallel?

Its the 33rd degree.

Reference a globe, buddy.

SYMBOLISM IS NOT OWNED by Societies, it is used by them. They give the 2nd meaning to their members, and the 3rd meaning is reserved for outsiders.

Why is 33 degrees Fahrenheit important?

Every important location I listed? You mean the location of the FIRST Grand Lodge in the United States, is on the 33rd degree?

And President Kennedy's Assasination?

Why is 13 inches exactly 33 centimetres?

Its all a coincidence... In your reality

Originally posted by akilles
Its the 33rd degree.

Reference a globe, buddy.

SYMBOLISM IS NOT OWNED by Societies, it is used by them. They give the 2nd meaning to their members, and the 3rd meaning is reserved for outsiders.

Why is 33 degrees Fahrenheit important?

Every important location I listed? You mean the location of the FIRST Grand Lodge in the United States, is on the 33rd degree?

And President Kennedy's Assasination?

Why is 13 inches exactly 33 centimetres?

Its all a coincidence... In your reality

And you think this is all because there is a 33rd degree in Freemasonry? An HONORARY degree, that really isn't important at all??? You DO realize that the number 33, aside from being the highest degree of the Scottish Rite (a fraction of all masons in the world), is of absolutely no significance to any mason, right?

You see, the number 3, the HIGHEST degree among ALL masons, IS indeed important. Why don't you focus on the number three? Oh, does that not fit your theories? You see Akilles, the "sacred bloodline masonic council of the 33rd degree" really isn't that important at all in masonry, and they really don't control anything like you think, and they are not the highest ranking masons nor the supreme masons in the world, they are not the mother lodge of all masons, etc. etc. etc. All your theories about the number 33 are absurd, as the number 33 is obviously only significant to YOU.

Supposedly, Jesus was 33 when he died, so was Alexander the Great. Dallas Texas is near the 33rd degree North Latitude, but not on it. 13 as a symbolic number, is to be found everywhere, the masons have no monopoly on it. For example, the tree of life of the Cabala has 13 branches, the Mayan long count calendar has 13 Katuns. The year has 13 lunar months. buildings have no 13th floor, which is a very amusing fact imho, considering 'shh, don't tell anyone, the 13th floor didn't go anywhere, its still there, honest.'.
I like the number 13, it is even in my nicname.
Bilderberg meetings? Notice how every year there is still no more attention paid to them by the media? Why? Is it cuz the owners of the media are members?
naaah.