Tennessee bill seeking to bolster indecent exposure law draws concern from LGBTQ community

This is an interesting approach to the legitimate concern of sexual predators in bathrooms and other single-sex spaces:

Tennessee bill seeking to bolster indecent exposure law draws concern from LGBTQ community

The bill, introduced by Rep. John Ragan, R-Oak Ridge, would expand the "offense of indecent exposure to include incidents occurring in a restroom, locker room, dressing room, or shower, designated for single-sex, multi-person use, if the offender is a member of the opposite sex than the sex designated for use."

In an interview, Ragan said Wednesday the bill is necessary in order to "protect members of the opposite sex from having their privacy invaded."

It would help protect their physical safety as well as their privacy.

It does not change the definition of public exposure/indecency --

...which is the intentional exposing of a person's genitals or buttocks to someone or engaging in sexual contact or sexual penetration in a public place.

-- nor the penalties for such offenses/convictions; but instead of being charged as a crime only in public spaces, it would also be charged as a crime in single-sex spaces. This seems like it could be a reasonable, practical and effective part of safeguarding women and girls from predators. But of course not everyone agrees.

But Ragan's bill does include language that appears to be aimed at the transgender community.

It includes a section that says, "A medical, psychiatric, or psychological diagnosis of gender dysphoria, gender confusion, or similar conditions, in the absence of untreated mental conditions, such as schizophrenia, does not serve as a defense to the offense of indecent exposure."

I would say the bill is aimed at predators, including those who would identify as transgender.

But Chris Sanders, executive director of the Tennessee Equality Project, remains concerned about Ragan's bill.

Sanders said the subject matter and Ragan's history of "running anti-LGBTQ bills" have led his organization to flag it as potentially worrisome.

"Based on how the bill uses the word 'sex,' it could be used to criminalize transgender people using restrooms and locker rooms," he said. "Those are some of the issues we will consider as the legislative session unfolds."

I agree that this would have to be worded carefully to avoid persecuting any transgender who is just going about their business for innocent and unintended incidents, so this is fair enough. And I'm not seeing any big stink about this anywhere -- at least not yet -- so if it is done right, it just might pass.

It could be a step in the right direction anyway.

Tennessee House Bill 1151

An indecent exposure bill in Tennessee is unfairly targeting transgender people, advocates say

Tennessee Clergy Opposed to the 2019 Slate of Hate

a reply to: Boadicea

Without having read the actual bill--too late for legalese tonight-- I must say this sounds like a good solution to what too many people fail to recognize as a potential problem. As things stand, there's little anyone, especially any woman, can do if a problem does occur, and from what you've pasted here it sounds like this addresses it in the fairest possible way.

Of course there will be plenty of people screaming because it explicitly excludes gender dysphoria, but meh; it would be pretty toothless if it didn't, since the more radical trans advocates would simply claim that "she" had every right to wave "her" penis in your face because "she's" a woman just like you in spite of said penis. (I say this because let's face it, has anyone heard of a pre-transition trans man instigating any kind of scene or committing any sexual assaults on biological men? And in fact, this would protect trans men from that kind of harassment from biological men too, which is the more likely scenario.)

Hope it passes.

There are no grey areas when it comes to gender, it’s one or the other.

Why do we as a society enable mentally ill people?
Letting a tranny LARP as a woman to me is the same thing as telling a schizophrenic that the voices are real, we are not helping and are in fact most likely doing harm.

The people who come up with this stuff need to be removed from any decision making process that affects the community

Sounds simple enough - behave decently in spaces where nudity occurs and do your best to keep your privates to yourself.

I’m all for it!

Enough of the lgbtqeiocj community already . As if there aren't more pressing issues than John thinking hes now Jane by osmosis.


Of the many species that can change their gender, none do it for pleasure or realize they were in the wrong body all these years, nor do they change their sexes via surgery.
It sort of happens naturally and is needed for the species to survive. Nature has worked all that out for us over millions of years of evolution.

Keep your mutilated junk away from public eyes and use the toilet you were naturally designed to use...because it's been that way for hundreds of thousands of years...


We would have developed the ability to change our gender long before we developed opposable thumbs. Trans are nothing but a bunch of mentalists, but they have every right to be mental... just be civil about it... keep your junk (whatever it maybe) private.

Cyborg rights mother#ers!

a reply to: Boadicea

Actions speak louder than words. I believe most transgender people want to appear as much like their desired gender as possible. Flashing a body that brings their gender into question, completely defeats their efforts.

Those that expose their genitalia while in a bathroom, especially one were children are present, leaves much doubt about their true motives.

If they think they have the right to use the bathroom of the gender they desire, it would be better for them to keep everyone guessing, and for them just to take a seat in a closed and private stall.

a reply to: riiver

I hope it passes too.

I also like that it focuses on the crime and not the person, which is how it should be. Public indecency is wrong by whoever does it, not just when it's by someone identifying as transgender.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

I think you're right. The ones who just want to use the bathroom in peace aren't the ones who need to be worried about this... and they aren't the ones that anyone is worried about anyway.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: Boadicea

Actions speak louder than words. I believe most transgender people want to appear as much like their desired gender as possible. Flashing a body that brings their gender into question, completely defeats their efforts.

Those that expose their genitalia while in a bathroom, especially one were children are present, leaves much doubt about their true motives.

If they think they have the right to use the bathroom of the gender they desire, it would be better for them to keep everyone guessing, and for them just to take a seat in a closed and private stall.

I am sorry, but I think that is a very naïve position to take on the transgender issue. There are a lot of political activists involved in the transgender movement. And I don’t think it is beyond their morals to flash a child, and even give them a wink while they are “ changing” in a dressing room.

originally posted by: apydomis

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: Boadicea
I am sorry, but I think that is a very naïve position to take on the transgender issue. There are a lot of political activists involved in the transgender movement. And I don’t think it is beyond their morals to flash a child, and even give them a wink while they are “ changing” in a dressing room.

Kids will be curious and if in a womens' bath they see a penis or the opposite in a men's bathroom, they are gonna ask questions the first time maybe and parents will explain and everyone will move on.

It's not like children don't accompany parents into opposite sex bathrooms as it is. I dunno how many times I've been minding my own biz and having a girl in there with her father watch me and the other men urinate from the opposite wall (and not all baths have barriers between urinals). I just make best efforts for them not to see anything and pretend I don't notice since I know they are just being curious and if I was their age I'd probably be doing the same thing. If someone made a stink about it, I think that'd really screw 'em up mentally. When my daughter was young and I used to have to take her in, I'd tell her not to stare. But obviously some parents don't or the kids disregard it out of curiosity.

As far as nudity in general..
I'm going to ignore the real motivation for this thing for a second and just say: nudity is freedom of speech and no studies have shown irreparable harm from it. People honestly shouldn't be required to wear clothes period, but two things:
1. Freedom of speech about nudity doesn't protect a person from a kid or another adult coming up to them and point-blank giving some brutal honesty: "Your kinda fat and hairy and would look better with clothes on".
2. Government does have a right to regulate health "to promote general welfare" so it could put restrictions in to ensure parasites and diseases don't get transferred. E.g. at nudist colonies people often carry around cushions to sit on or things to wrap themselves in so they aren't "catching crabs" by sitting on a bench and stuff like that.
Examples:
A. Can't sit nude directly on a public seat or bench, including in restaurants. Designated private places are excluded, but at your own risk.
B. Must avoid contact with other people while nude. This also means that in a public place contact sports are prohibited while nude.
C. Avoid swimming nude at the beach while menstruating, since it is not only a public hazard but you'll attract sharks and other predators.
D. If you are very attractive, you get a tax deduction, but if you're ugly you have to pay a nude tax. (just kidding)

edit on 17-2-2019 by Dwagon because: (no reason given)

a reply to: Dwagon

D. If you are very attractive, you get a tax deduction, but if you're ugly you have to pay a nude tax. (just kidding)

That was soooooooo bad... but it made me laugh anyway... so my bad too!

I'm going to ignore the real motivation for this thing for a second and just say: nudity is freedom of speech and no studies have shown irreparable harm from it.

I wish simple nudity was the issue, but it's not. Most kids have seen their parents naked, their siblings, and other friends/family members in various states of undress. Kids know about naked bodies. It's what people can do with those naked bodies which is the real fear. Like the man identifying as a woman in Seattle (if I remember correctly) walking around naked with a full erection in front of young girls... what comes next? This time it's just exhibitionism. Will it be masturbating next time? Maybe accidentally-on-purpose brushing his erect penis on those young girls? Or WORSE???

How about simple privacy? I read a report over the weekend about schools in Wales with mixed-sex bathrooms, where girls are refusing to use them and holding their bladder until they get home, because of things like boys timing the girls in the stalls to guess which girls are on their period, then teasing and heckling the girls about it, and other quite obnoxious antics. In my opinion, it would serve those boys right if the girls made damn sure they knew by throwing their used hygiene products in the boys' faces... but I think that would violate those health regs, right?

On that subject, there are actually demands from some in the Trans Taliban to take out feminine hygiene dispensers and waste bins out of women's bathrooms because it "grosses" them out and because not all "girls" have periods. WTH??? This is one of the most basic and fundamental needs of women. It's not our choice, but our physical reality. (That should be the trans "woman's" first clue that HE is not a woman!!!)

So all this to say, there is far more to this than simple nudity. However, even regarding nudity itself, we do have an absolute right to decide who can see us naked, and we are saying "no" to MEN in those private spaces where we may be in various states of undress. And men have only themselves to blame for that -- trans or otherwise -- for so abusing their sexuality and wielding their own sexuality as a weapon. And it doesn't help when "good" men cry and whine like little wussies at the mere mention of "toxic masculinity," but refuse to denounce and condemn the toxic masculinity all around them.

a reply to: Boadicea

I really don't see most trannies doing the period timing stuff you mentioned. They're probably more scared of getting harassed themselves
Plenty of tran women get attacked www.google.com...

On that subject, there are actually demands from some in the Trans Taliban to take out feminine hygiene dispensers and waste bins out of women's bathrooms because it "grosses" them out and because not all "girls" have periods.

Please provide non-partisan link (like public broadcasting) that says that this is an actual push beyond a couple extremists pushing for that that people probably ignore.

On safety, plenty of attacks happen from non-trannies who sneak into baths. I think that'd be a more common MO b/c they aren't registered as tranny
www.google.com...

As far as the masturbation thing, they should be reported and have their access revoked. Though I bet gay women have done it too, so I don't see that as tranny-specific but gay women are biologically female so imho if you're gonna say your tranny, then masturbating to women in the bath kinda disqualifies (e.g. even if you are bi, control yourself). If they are just going into a stall to get themselves off in private not with anyone else in the bath as a subject, then that's just being human but they better be discrete about it.

The erection thing is marginally funny, though definitely in bad taste. So I don't know that case but q1 would be how does a tran get an erection, and my assumption is that must get turned on by both genders. I guess that's possible. One biological reality about men is that when they get turned on, they get erections. I've heard that happens at nudist colonies sometimes, and they deal, but I can understand how an enclosed bath where you don't expect to see other sexes' parts while trying to go about your day would be a bit more shocking. They can probably publish advice for morons "don't go around parading an erection b/c it makes others uncomfortable or possibly even feel unsafe. Cover that sh** up". You'd think that would just be common-sense but I guess not for some people. And if they start doing it regularly, they should probably have access revoked.

a reply to: Dwagon

You sound quite reasonable and accepting and that's all great... if you are sincere but uninformed or unaware, and not just gaslighting.

I have no problem with anyone who isn't hurting anyone. Including those who identify as transgender. People can be as gender conforming or gender non-conforming as they like, as long as they aren't hurting anyone. Unfortunately, men who identify as trans are just as likely to commit violent and/or sexual crimes against women, particularly the autogynephiles -- the heterosexual men who are sexually attracted to women and are sexually aroused by themselves "as" women. Those who do not have gender dysphoria... they claim to have gender euphoria. They just feel so darn good as a girl. And with Self-ID, any violent pervert has access to vulnerable women and girls in private spaces. It is not acceptable.

Please don't try to minimize or belittle these very real concerns. And please don't try to excuse the abuse against women by invoking abuse against men who identify as transgender. Especially given the abuse the Trans Activists spew at women constantly, including the most vile threats against their person using their "laydee" dicks and cocks as a weapon. Nothing feminine or womanly about that. Here are a few examples: Threats of violence towards ‘TERFs’, lesbians, radical feminists, and anyone critical of the ideology

Here are some examples of crimes committed by men who identify as transgender: The Tip of the Iceberg

If you don't like my sources, fair enough... but please don't demand I find "reputable" sources because they won't report on this. But if you think you can prove any of this untrue, then please do.

Just like the righty's to create a problem where there is none. Trans people having going to bathrooms they feel more comfortable with for years but NOW it's a problem?

Where does this come from anyways. was there a sudden up-rise in trans people attacking women and children in bathrooms? Or is this your own sick deviant minds that are creating fantasies where trans people are molesting and raping children?

a reply to: Rokal

Really??? Don't even know... but you're sure quick with those partisan insults...

The Tip of the Iceberg

Here's a little more to explain their particular brand of violence:

Shame and Narcissistic Rage in Autogynephilic Transsexualism