Is Santa Claus Real. . . . .

a reply to: Phage

It helps kids to behave during the onset of winter. Negative reinforcement, "If you aren't good, Santa won't bring any presents."

And yet they always get presents.

When I was a kid, trouble was my middle name. Lost count of the well deserved spankings I got. School was no different. Got disciplined many times and yet every Christmas I received presents.

Funny thing... During my childhood years, neither I nor my friends ever got a present marked from "Saint Nick." Perhaps things are handled differently in Costa Rica ??

A lot of people are going to see coal in their stockings this year.

tsk. . . tsk.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
A lot of people are going to see coal in their stockings this year.

tsk. . . tsk.

Surely these days it would have to be some sort of carbon neutral wood pellet?

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

originally posted by: SprocketUK
kids will have upwards of 60 years to face a world with no magic, where everything needs an explanation.

Sometimes you can't give them much, but believing in a fairytale where Father Christmas can visit every child on Earth in a single night and leave them a little present is a good thing.

Why shouldn't they have a little wonder? They can worry about credit card bills and stuff in a few years time.

But there is lots of wonders in the real world, so that is a bs argument. No need to tell kids lies and create fantasies for them to believe in, for them to experience wonders and adventures. Youre very cynical if you believe otherwise

Most of them will face an adult life of hardship, hard work and pretending not to hate the people they have to share the world with.
There are more damaging lies around, like "My religion is better than yours, my politics is better than yours, my way is better than yours" ad infinitum.

Seems to me that people wanting to pee all over someone else's chips in this way just arent happy seeing others with a smile on their face.


It costs nothing to play the game a little at this time of year and harms no one.

Would you be happy with some teacher telling the kids there is no god/gods to deeply religious kids?


Who has the right to crush another's belief structure?
Anyway, Santa is real, used to follow the NORAD tracks with my kids when they were little and NORAD wouldn't lie, they are serious people

Is this a serious question?

Would you be happy with some teacher telling the kids there is no god/gods to deeply religious kids?

Do i want a teacher to attack those kids telling them their beliefs are all wrong, just for the sake it? no
If a teacher is asked if these fairtales are true, i would very much hope he tells them the truth, that organised religion is just a control system.
Or do you seriously wants the teacher to tell them, "oh yeah, it is all true, all of it" maybe he could add the part "especially the part that says youre all going to hell, cause you are all sinners"

Santa is not real, their is harm done when you lie to kids.

Sounds like you hate everyone around you and the world, maybe you should lighten up a little, and try to remember all the good stuff in the world. The is absolutely NO REASON to tell kids lies, to make them happy.

Youre saying, "tell the kids that the world is wonderfull and full of joy, cause it is not, and they will find out when their adults" you cant hear how insane that sounds??

a reply to: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan


What about if that teacher says "No, your mummy isn't in heaven, when she died of breast cancer that was the end, the heaven thing is just something you were told so that you wouldn't be crushed by the purposeless of your insignificant existence"?



And Santa is merely the current, American incarnation of Father Christmas, who goes back to pagan times. So...how do you know he isn't real? Sure, I know and so does everyone else, that there is no fat bloke coming down the chimney to put presents at the end of the bed, it's the idea that is important though, like so many mythological concepts.

Everybody lies at times, "No, you aren't fat, your nose is normal size, Course I will still love you after"...etc. So why get all moral crusader over this? Seems to me you are being far too selective and I am happy in life thanks, I only socialise with the people I want to. The point was a general one about people who end up surrounded by those they would rather not be merely because of work or where they live etc.


What harm iis letting kids believe a story doing? Or do you suppose that only things that can be seen and touched should ever be discussed? Hell, a hundred years ago, putting men on the moon was seen as far fetched as the idea of Santa.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: CriticalStinker

Santa really helps mellow the kidlins on those long nights. While it lasts.

My daughter came right out and proclaimed when she no longer believed. She was 8 (9?). It made me sad, but proud that critical thinking had kicked in.

Eldest is now an adult and still believes.

(Small chance I may just be getting hussled for more presents.)

originally posted by: SprocketUK
a reply to: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

What about if that teacher says "No, your mummy isn't in heaven, when she died of breast cancer that was the end, the heaven thing is just something you were told so that you wouldn't be crushed by the purposeless of your insignificant existence"?

What about the teacher just said "I dont know what happens when we die" ??

And Santa is merely the current, American incarnation of Father Christmas, who goes back to pagan times. So...how do you know he isn't real? Sure, I know and so does everyone else, that there is no fat bloke coming down the chimney to put presents at the end of the bed, it's the idea that is important though, like so many mythological concepts.

Yes, santa is only mixed into christianity, because that was the only way the pope could get people to accept the new religion and god that was FORCED upon them. All kind of pagan crap got mixed into christianity that way

Everybody lies at times, "No, you aren't fat, your nose is normal size, Course I will still love you after"...etc. So why get all moral crusader over this? Seems to me you are being far too selective and I am happy in life thanks, I only socialise with the people I want to. The point was a general one about people who end up surrounded by those they would rather not be merely because of work or where they live etc.

Nope, everybody doesnt lie all the time. Sure, lots of people do. lots of people also steal, rape and murder, does that makes it ok then?

It seems to you i get way too selective, arguing that santa is a lie, not needed? It seems to me this thread was about wether santa is real or not, so i think iam just arguing the subject of the thread...

Yes, youre point was that life sucks for many people, as adults, therefore, create a fantasy world for them to live in as kid. Have you ever thought about that maybe, people who lives in a fantasyland, might gonna think life sucks when they grow up and finds out everything is a lie?

What harm iis letting kids believe a story doing? Or do you suppose that only things that can be seen and touched should ever be discussed? Hell, a hundred years ago, putting men on the moon was seen as far fetched as the idea of Santa.

Comparing the moon to santa?
One thing is real, we can see it, we can dream about what it is - the other thing is a story, like disneys Lion king, but for some reason, you and so many others, believe that kids needs to believe it is true, to enjoy the story...

Others have explain in this thread, how it can affect kids in a bad way, go back and read it again...

Or do you suppose that only things that can be seen and touched should ever be discussed?

Where do you get this from? did I say that? Hell, we are discussing santa right now, are we not? I just said there is no need to lie about it to our kids.
Youre are very prejudiced against me, because of that. But i never said or suggested any of those things you try to make it sound like i did. Why is that?

a reply to: DBCowboy

Did the teacher also said that the Santa Claus today is based upon Saint Nicholas ? In my opinion the teacher acted wrongly. It´s the parents job to explain to the child when it´s a bit older about the Santa Claus. If not, then the child will discover on it´s own as many of us done so.

Anyway since Christmas approaching below some info about how Santa Claus came to be. From Saint Nicholas to Santa Claus.

The Story of Saint Nicholas - The Real Santa Claus



As for the modern Santa Claus :

It's been a long journey from the Fourth Century Bishop of Myra, St. Nicholas, who showed his devotion to God in extraordinary kindness and generosity to those in need, to America's jolly Santa Claus, whose largesse often supplies luxuries to the affluent. However, if you peel back the accretions, he is still Nicholas, Bishop of Myra, whose caring surprises continue to model true giving and faithfulness.

Saint Nicholas and origin of Santa Claus


Peace

a reply to: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

You said previously that it's harmful, yet you haven't been able to explain why.

Santa is no more harmful than heaven, so why get on your high horse about it?

Like I said before, everyone lies in all sorts of ways, even you.

Myths have an important role in the development of children into adults. There are way more deserving ones to condemn before you get to Santa.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

A New Jersey substitute teacher at Cedar Hill School was fired after she told a room full of first graders that Santa Claus is fake.
Superintendent Rene Rovtar released a statement saying that she was “troubled and disheartened” by the incident that could potentially ruin the childhood wonder associated with the holidays.

www.radio.com...

I know Santa Claus is real. He's actually visited our home and even though our children are older now, he still brings them gifts on Christmas.

I feel sorry for the loser-dorks who don't believe in Santa.


But for the sake of argument, I will posit to all of you. . . . . Is the Jolly Old Elf real?

yes. nothing more needed

originally posted by: SprocketUK
a reply to: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

You said previously that it's harmful, yet you haven't been able to explain why.

Santa is no more harmful than heaven, so why get on your high horse about it?

Like I said before, everyone lies in all sorts of ways, even you.

Myths have an important role in the development of children into adults. There are way more deserving ones to condemn before you get to Santa.

so its never harmful to lie? lies can never do harm, thats what you saying? Do i really need to prove to you lies can do harm?

What i keep saying is "there is no reason to lie about it"

Now we are talking about lies, please show me where i condem Santa?
You get all triggered, because i dare say something you dont believe, and attack me in all sorts of ways, and no where do you try to disprove what i say. People keep saying they need Santa to teach lessons, i say, no they dont, ofcourse they can teach them without making a great story/adventure into a lie.

So in the spirit of christmas, please stop attacking me, and attack my statement
"THERE IS NO REASON TO LIE ABOUT IT"
If you have any arguments to why i should be wrong?

a reply to: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

Actually, isn't it more helpful for children to learn NOT to just take anyone's word as truth but seek their own truth a more valuable lesson. If children grow up in a bubble of believing those in authority or they love ALWAYS will tell the truth...they will by far suffer more than those who discover Santa is not real in their early adolescence.

Those lucky kids will learn to discern their own truths and not simply accept all more readily and rapidly than those who 'believe' that all in authority will never lie to them.

Edit add: my main point is this harmless traditional myth is a innocent but wonderful educational tool to ensure one's child learns to think for themselves and not simply follow in the future.

a reply to: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

You for real? Look at your reply to my last post but one. "Santa is not real there is harm done when you lie to kids"


What harm? How is letting them believe in something magical harmful?


Lies aren't always harmful, I never once said in any post that lying is never harmful, that was you, committing a lie of your own there

I am attacking your stance because there is enough rubbish in the world that kids can have a bit of magic to cling to for a few years and you want to take that away and don't care enough about their emotional wellbeing to see how crass and destructive you are being.

and stop throwing words like triggered around when I am giving you the courtesy of trying to debate your idiotic stance.
Do it once more and the snowflake fairy will come and cut out your tongue while you sleep.

originally posted by: CynConcepts
a reply to: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

Actually, isn't it more helpful for children to learn NOT to just take anyone's word as truth but seek their own truth a more valuable lesson. If children grow up in a bubble of believing those in authority or they love ALWAYS will tell the truth...they will by far suffer more than those who discover Santa is not real in their early adolescence.

Those lucky kids will learn to discern their own truths and not simply accept all more readily and rapidly than those who 'believe' that all in authority will never lie to them.

Again my argument will be, that those lesson can be taught without santa.
There is plenty of conspiracys and lies in the real world, parents need to take some responsibility and teach their kids stuff. You cant depend on school, tv and santa to do the job.

I dont say dont do it, just that you can teach in other ways. I do celebrate chrismas, but i dont tell the lie. I talk about santa and christmas, like i would talk about any other story, neither implying it is real or that it is not, iam not trying to ruin chrismas for anybody. But yes, I do think it is silly.

a reply to: SprocketUK

You for real? Look at your reply to my last post but one. "Santa is not real there is harm done when you lie to kids" What harm? How is letting them believe in something magical harmful? Lies aren't always harmful, I never once said in any post that lying is never harmful, that was you, committing a lie of your own there

And i never once said in any post, that lying is allways harmfull

I am attacking your stance because there is enough rubbish in the world that kids can have a bit of magic to cling to for a few years and you want to take that away and and don't care enough about their emotional wellbeing to see how crass and destructive you are being.

I never said anywhere that i wanted to take anything away from you or any children Look in the mirror sometimes, maybe you learn something.

and stop throwing words like triggered around when I am giving you the courtesy of trying to debate your idiotic stance. Do it once more and the snowflake fairy will come and cut out your tongue while you sleep.

You threaten to cut my tounge? and you think iam the idiot? ok... Maybe you need to take a break from the internet

Different families have different traditions. Traditions are not deceitful nor unreal. They are a real connection, a routine that was created to unite and share. Some cultural traditions seem odd to others, but they all have a basis in uniting and coming together for a common theme.

I have no problem if some wish to raise their children on reality of their own perspectives. I take offense if such a person denigrates and says I should not follow my own perspective or beliefs.

I personally enjoying using magic, and seemingly supernatural but scientific fact to mystify my grandsons. As time goes by, their curiosity for truth is most rewarding. I can share the secrets of science and reality to encourage them to explore further since they have proven they are truly ready to learn the truths and not just accept some magical notion that I first tell them.

Even so, we all love the imaginary fun and never discourage others from finding their own truths. You can tell a very young child something is hot, but eventually they will test to decide how hot is hot. Never fails.

The most insightful instruction no matter ones age is those that we experience and learn by ourselves and not simple declarative rhetoric from another.

originally posted by: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan
a reply to: SprocketUK

You for real? Look at your reply to my last post but one. "Santa is not real there is harm done when you lie to kids" What harm? How is letting them believe in something magical harmful? Lies aren't always harmful, I never once said in any post that lying is never harmful, that was you, committing a lie of your own there

And i never once said in any post, that lying is allways harmfull

I am attacking your stance because there is enough rubbish in the world that kids can have a bit of magic to cling to for a few years and you want to take that away and and don't care enough about their emotional wellbeing to see how crass and destructive you are being.

I never said anywhere that i wanted to take anything away from you or any children

Look in the mirror sometimes, maybe you learn something.

and stop throwing words like triggered around when I am giving you the courtesy of trying to debate your idiotic stance. Do it once more and the snowflake fairy will come and cut out your tongue while you sleep.

You threaten to cut my tounge? and you think iam the idiot? ok... Maybe you need to take a break from the internet

I have to admit to feeling a bit insulted by your awful attitude. maybe it's you who should take a break from pretending not to understand anything I wrote. Maybe you are just too stupid to understand, in which case, in this season of goodwill, I apologise for expecting more from you than you are able to deliver.

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan
a reply to: SprocketUK

You for real? Look at your reply to my last post but one. "Santa is not real there is harm done when you lie to kids" What harm? How is letting them believe in something magical harmful? Lies aren't always harmful, I never once said in any post that lying is never harmful, that was you, committing a lie of your own there

And i never once said in any post, that lying is allways harmfull

I am attacking your stance because there is enough rubbish in the world that kids can have a bit of magic to cling to for a few years and you want to take that away and and don't care enough about their emotional wellbeing to see how crass and destructive you are being.

I never said anywhere that i wanted to take anything away from you or any children

Look in the mirror sometimes, maybe you learn something.

and stop throwing words like triggered around when I am giving you the courtesy of trying to debate your idiotic stance. Do it once more and the snowflake fairy will come and cut out your tongue while you sleep.

You threaten to cut my tounge? and you think iam the idiot? ok... Maybe you need to take a break from the internet

I have to admit to feeling a bit insulted by your awful attitude. maybe it's you who should take a break from pretending not to understand anything I wrote. Maybe you are just too stupid to understand, in which case, in this season of goodwill, I apologise for expecting more from you than you are able to deliver.

whatever you say, have a good night

a reply to: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

None of a teachers damn business to tell children that religion is bull, refer the question to the parents.

I think santa claus is a good gateway to questioning reality. An entrance into adulthood when you realize that the world is not as it seems.

Adults just forget to take that illusionairy bandaid off .