Just a thought, lack of discipline due to PC, the main reason for School Shootings?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: MALBOSIA

I guess it depends on what you're calling evil.

There is not much doubt that some people are messed up from the get go. It ain't all nurture.

I know some great kids, the fruit of messed up parents.

I elaborated my post but the right from the get-go ones I suspect were more due to mental health which we knew nothing about at the time. But looking back, we knew something was off.

originally posted by: Halfswede
a reply to: PhatalError

I would say that a larger factor is that in modern (last 40 years or so) parents' attempts to shield their children from adversity have led to a generation that has failed to gain "coping skills". Couple that with more recent broken social dynamics via texting and reduced "normal" interaction, you have a large group of people who can't cope when things don't go their way and lash out for attention in all the wrong ways.

Of course it is more complicated than that, but preventing kids from adversity is a huge factor in my opinion. It is different than PC, but a symptom of the same overall damage to the culture. PC is a direct result of people failing to have coping skills. Can't cope... ban it.

I think it's more they didn't get to learn to handle social interactions at daycare. Other times, they might not have had their street friends in class to back them up when classroom conflicts flare up between two or more students and themselves. Sometimes the father is absent. Other times, they get put on psycho-pharmacological medications. Other students might have access to workout gyms or their own basement bench press and they don't.

a reply to: stormcell

I think it's more they didn't get to learn to handle social interactions at daycare.

Yeah, that was William Bonney's problem too. Probly.

a reply to: PhatalError

Obviously spanking your kid isn't going to stop them from committing a mass shooting.

I watched that kid from florida and his older brother for 20 minutes on YouTube.

He had a mental illness. Its obvious as day.

So spanking wouldnt have worked. Social workers and proper adult care was what was missing. Adequte mental health services which we do not have in this country.

a reply to: PhatalError

Drunk posting here. I think too much focus has been put on PC here. Lack of discipline, yes for sure we see that. But is it the lack of discipline of the shooter or the kids that bully them you question? I generally feel the shooters have lack of restraint, but bullies are undisciplined. Its an endless argument though because then you question it on both sides as far back as you can trace. Its like the old question of which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Hint: It had to be 2 chickens, right?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: MALBOSIA

I guess it depends on what you're calling evil.

There is not much doubt that some people are messed up from the get go. It ain't all nurture.

I know some great kids, the fruit of messed up parents.

Well said. It has to be more on an individual level I think. Individuals are all different and that is what makes the world interesting.

originally posted by: drewlander
a reply to: PhatalError

Its like the old question of which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Hint: It had to be 2 chickens, right?

I have a new theory.

It was the batch of eggs with the chickens and the roosters in there that were a mutation of another animal....

originally posted by: drewlander
a reply to: PhatalError

Drunk posting here. I think too much focus has been put on PC here. Lack of discipline, yes for sure we see that. But is it the lack of discipline of the shooter or the kids that bully them you question? I generally feel the shooters have lack of restraint, but bullies are undisciplined. Its an endless argument though because then you question it on both sides as far back as you can trace. Its like the old question of which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Hint: It had to be 2 chickens, right?

I think my point about coping skills in the face of adversity is actually counter to this. Bullying and negative things are not acceptable behavior, but they exist in many forms throughout your life. The shooter needs to develop coping skills early and understand that the world isn't necessarily "nice" as it is his reaction we are trying to fix. He has no control of the bully.

Should bullying be punished? sure, but the potential shooter can't have everything negative swept free from his path or be given the impression that it should by parental commentary. I don't think it is a chicken-egg thing. I think someone who has been given the tools to deal with these complex and adverse life situations isn't nearly as likely to spin out of control when their phone is taken from them, their shoes aren't the right style, or somebody calls them 'poopy pants' for a week.

I can't count how many parent I know who say, " I just want my kid to have the best of everything, or have it easy, or not have to work hard, or have it better than me." Instead of, " I want my kid to learn to be ok if they are bored, belittled, scared, their friends get mad at them, they don't like the rules, they don't like the food, they don't have the money" etc. because guess what, that is reality and you can't fly off the handle every time something isn't to your liking even if it hurts.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: PhatalError

Guns don't kill people, bullets do. PC doesn't kill people.

There are 320 million people in this country. There are going to be some crazy nut cases. I'm not sure you can prevent it with laws or right wing crack down tactics.

Parenting = right wing crack down tactics?

I think there are a few things contributing to how out-of-control kids seem these days. One is like the OP states: lack of discipline. Most of disciplining a child comes from the follow-through. They do a thing they are told not to do, they get punished... or do they really? Parents get tired of hearing the whining and give Billy his ipad back so they can stay sane on that long drive. That just teaches the child that no matter what gets taken away as punishment, there are no real lasting consequences. It shows them they get whatever they want if they complain enough and in the right way.

Another is over-medicated children. My mother was a tutor for a long time. She noticed how many teachers would actively suggest to parents that their child had ADHD/ADD and to get them to a doctor for pills. I'm sure managing a room full of little zombies is a lot easier than having a few rambunctious kids you have to perhaps alter your teaching style for. Their little brains are still forming and they want to dose them with chemicals. Think back to when you were a kid; for most of you school was this laborious monotony of trying to sit still and listen while watching the clock until recess/PE/lunch. Yes, you have bookworms and kids who don't mind sitting and reading for hours at a stretch (I was that kid), but for kids to develop social skills AND learn facts and information while doing it, they need to be out in the world actively learning.

Remember how fun field trips to the museum or the planetarium were? You got to go out to a new place with your friends oh and hey you learned a few things without realizing it. I can count on one finger the amount of field trips my child has gone on in the last three years.

I worry too that instead of teaching history, math, science, art etc. that the curriculum is starting to ingrain too much feel-good happy-time stuff. The whole "accept everyone for what they are" is nice and right, but that can be taught naturally through social interactions that they just aren't getting.

We try to teach organically when our kid isn't in school. Things like if they mention how big the moon looks we ask 'do you know how far away the moon is? let's go look it up!' I think it nurtures natural curiosity, and we know when you become curious about something you WANT to learn about it and you retain it better.

Kids are also being bombarded with media these days. Looking back, I'd come inside after school long enough to grab a snack, do my homework and then WHOOSH I was outside on my bike until I got tired. I have had to seriously limit tablet time the same way I used to get limited with TV. I think these devices are more addictive though, what with their notifications and thumbs upping and like&subscribe and everything. I read a few years back that when you get a notification on something like facebook that someone posted to your wall or similar things you get a small dopamine hit.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I have had kids come over my house and not eat real food because they have only known a diet of fast foods, as example.

I had a friend that would feed her little kids nothing but microwave mac n cheese, gummy fruit snacks, and lean cuisine. Some people should not procreate.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
I had a friend that would feed her little kids nothing but microwave mac n cheese, gummy fruit snacks, and lean cuisine. Some people should not procreate.

My wife is an extremely good cook, one kid would not eat anything unless it was a hamburger/fries from McDonalds. That was it, that is what his mom brought him every day. Kid wouldn't even eat ribeye...lol

I was raised like you too, I got it when I deserved it, I turned out ok I guess, but I did not raise my kid that way, and he turned out better than me, and I know people who whipped their kids when needed, they turned out ok too but it took them longer for some reason.
But none of them has done anything that we didn't do as kids.
So it's the individual who chooses to do bad things, cant blame the parents for this one .

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: JAGStorm
I had a friend that would feed her little kids nothing but microwave mac n cheese, gummy fruit snacks, and lean cuisine. Some people should not procreate.

My wife is an extremely good cook, one kid would not eat anything unless it was a hamburger/fries from McDonalds. That was it, that is what his mom brought him every day. Kid wouldn't even eat ribeye...lol

He would have eaten any number of things if he wasn't brought a burger from McDs every day. Why were there even alternatives provided him? Eat what's served or don't eat -- no caving in. About one day of not eating is all it takes even the most stubborn kid to quit fussing and learn some respect for what their parents provide. If kids knew how to make the best decisions for themselves, they wouldn't need parents.

a reply to: Halfswede

It doesn't help that you have parents being told that it's OK for their kids to go through dietary "phases" where they will only eat certain things.

How many parents fall into that kind of thinking that their kid is just in that phase, and they just keep right on following that advice?

originally posted by: Halfswede

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: JAGStorm
I had a friend that would feed her little kids nothing but microwave mac n cheese, gummy fruit snacks, and lean cuisine. Some people should not procreate.

My wife is an extremely good cook, one kid would not eat anything unless it was a hamburger/fries from McDonalds. That was it, that is what his mom brought him every day. Kid wouldn't even eat ribeye...lol

He would have eaten any number of things if he wasn't brought a burger from McDs every day. Why were there even alternatives provided him? Eat what's served or don't eat -- no caving in. About one day of not eating is all it takes even the most stubborn kid to quit fussing and learn some respect for what their parents provide. If kids knew how to make the best decisions for themselves, they wouldn't need parents.

One of my children would only eat Chicken and or noodles of some kind. I am slowly teaching her about pizza (no meat for her), Hamburger's with no cheese or good veggies and it is a fight to get that far. Finally, I got her to like spaghetti sauce with tomato's on those noodles. I would be like my parents and put my foot down on veggies and she learned to like one thing I hate, green peas! So, I am happy to buy peas and tomato's.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: JAGStorm
I had a friend that would feed her little kids nothing but microwave mac n cheese, gummy fruit snacks, and lean cuisine. Some people should not procreate.

My wife is an extremely good cook, one kid would not eat anything unless it was a hamburger/fries from McDonalds. That was it, that is what his mom brought him every day. Kid wouldn't even eat ribeye...lol

The kid is tuned for it...much as you can barely believe it...ribeye is hardly more natural for the body to accept.

Alot of people cannot handle steak and never did.

originally posted by: ParasuvO

The kid is tuned for it...much as you can barely believe it...ribeye is hardly more natural for the body to accept.

Alot of people cannot handle steak and never did.

I was using that as example. The one kid I was talking about lived on McD hamburgers, fries and coke. I would think the McD has about 50 years of evolutionary influences and rib eye has a good million or more lol...