200 million gallons or 300 Olympic pools of rain water - missing from runoff basin.

A few weeks ago we had a massive rain storm, about 9-10" in a few hours and a local parking lot (about 1 sq mile) which has it's own runoff basin didn't show any signs of water while the surrounding area had unprecedented flooding (surrounding area for about 15 miles in every direction. I talked to a couple local people and they actually suggested that "maybe it didn't rain as much there..." though the entire Doppler rain map showed complete coverage of the area for the whole storm. Here is a link to the thread where I explained that.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Since then I've driven by the basin a number of times and the water level has stayed the same, hasn't dropped at all, the lily pads haven't moved a bit, it looks like a perfect wetland. There certainly hasn't been any time for the soil to dry out, we've had rain on and off since and the last 5 days we've had rain every day and about 4-5", so the ground is saturated.

I drove by again today and the levels were the same as after the big storm. What I did notice is that there is no water coming into basin even as it was pouring (and had been raining for about 12+ hours). There is standing & flowing water in the drainage ditches between the road and the burms surrounding the lot, so this small grassy area has had enough rain to collect water but the huge paved surface that is 1000'sx larger, isn't showing any signs of runoff.

As I said in the other thread, this isn't the first time I've noticed this odd behavior nor the first place. Years ago during another major flood I noticed a lack of water in the same place and another recently built runoff basin while other smaller basins from shopping centers and parking lots around the area are filled with water.

Before the last storm I didn't think there was anything too suspicious going on but after the last few weeks, it is apparent that there is something very odd going on and the water is being redirected underground. I would have thought this was ridiculous had I not looked at the basin 20-30 times during rains over the years and compared it to other much smaller places in the area. The property is owned by an old, out of state family conglomerate that is one of the largest privately held companies in the US which has business interests in news papers, radio stations, magazines, telecom, internet, cable, car companies (sales) and a lot more. The fact that the water is disappearing is troubling enough but the question of where it is going is even more troubling.

I calculated the volume of water that would have been collected during the large rain storm to about 130 million gallons or about 200 olympic swimming pools and about 1/2 that in the last 5 days - and these are somewhat conservative estimates for the size of the drainage area, so it could be about 10-15% more. That is a massive amount of water to be missing or to be explained away as "not having rained there" - as if there was a large umbrella over the facility.

edit: another comparison is the same amount of water it would take to fill the new Dallas Cowboys football stadium twice. That's a lot of water to be missing.

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

Why don't you send your observations to the company that "owns" the water rights and ask them what is going on? If you do, I hope you will post it on this thread.

My guess would be that the basin sits higher than you think in relationship to the grounds around it. Have you looked at a topographic map to see if that is the case?

I am not all that big of a fan of gravity, but it does seem to do what it needs to do no matter what.

Or - maybe there is a gigantic UFO underneath it that had a massive electromagnetic engine that affects the water table.

:-)

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

We already had a thread on this didn't we.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

Last year it rained and my front yard pooled like a pond, this year we had record breaking rain for a week and no standing water.
I think it all has to do with the volume as it falls, the temperature and some other factors.
Maybe the ground was very dry this year and soaked it up at a much higher rate.

originally posted by: pointessa
a reply to: DigginFoTroof

Why don't you send your observations to the company that "owns" the water rights and ask them what is going on? If you do, I hope you will post it on this thread.

I was thinking about that, who I would contact. The company that owns the property, the township, the county or state. I thought about trying to find the person in charge of the site's maintenance (maintaining roads, drainage, etc) and seeing if they would admit to having underground tanks or something.

The county and township are farming oriented so IDK what the deal is with water rights in this area, it seems like they might be with the property owner, but I don't know. I guess I could talk to someone on the township zoning board, they should be able to tell me the deal, or at least point me in the right direction.

The thing is that we have had so many "100 year" or "1,000 year" floods recently (sometimes with relatively little rain for the flooding amount though still a lot of rain) that it is very concerning for the town right next door to the property, though the property is downstream and IDK how it could really effect the town but I'm not an expert in water and groundwater especially.

originally posted by: Fools
My guess would be that the basin sits higher than you think in relationship to the grounds around it. Have you looked at a topographic map to see if that is the case?

I am not all that big of a fan of gravity, but it does seem to do what it needs to do no matter what.

Or - maybe there is a gigantic UFO underneath it that had a massive electromagnetic engine that affects the water table.

:-)

Well you can see the slope of the terrain from the basins, so I would think it can only flow one way and when the expansion was built, the basins were built specifically to handle the runoff from the massive lot, so the drainage pipes run 1,000's of ft. I can't see a reason to have 9 4ft diameter drainage pipes leaving the facility other than to handle massive amounts of water.

I'm wondering if it can be pumped into the water table. I'm not thinking that it is a "UFO"....

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: DigginFoTroof

Last year it rained and my front yard pooled like a pond, this year we had record breaking rain for a week and no standing water.
I think it all has to do with the volume as it falls, the temperature and some other factors.
Maybe the ground was very dry this year and soaked it up at a much higher rate.

That is a good thought, but it wouldn't account for the water that stays in the basin all the time. It is a man-made wetland that has standing water all the time except for the very worst droughts. I don't even see any water flowing into these at a slow rate. It is also impossible for the water to soak into the ground of the lot as it is an entire paved parking lot. I've seen satellite pictures after some massive rains where the water has backed up and pooled in the lots. This happens often in spring when there is a big thaw and all the snow from the winter melts at once. The satellite imagery is really good to see where the water flows in this regard and it shows that it would fill this basin and not flow anywhere else. Also, there are no other area's around that are downhill that ever flood, so the water isn't exiting elsewhere.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

Could be that some of the run off plumbing has broken and it is allowing more out than it used to. You should have whoever "owns" the basin or who manages it and see if there is an issue like that.

Or, maybe the actual ground itself was or wasn't saturated. That always matters in local arboral flooding from my vague understanding.

My UFO thing was a joke. No offense intended.

I am a flood junkie. Sometimes when we have floods I will drive around for hours looking at flooded areas. I have no idea why.

originally posted by: Fools
a reply to: DigginFoTroof

Could be that some of the run off plumbing has broken and it is allowing more out than it used to. You should have whoever "owns" the basin or who manages it and see if there is an issue like that.

Or, maybe the actual ground itself was or wasn't saturated. That always matters in local arboral flooding from my vague understanding.

My UFO thing was a joke. No offense intended.

I am a flood junkie. Sometimes when we have floods I will drive around for hours looking at flooded areas. I have no idea why.

I wasn't sure about the UFO thing, if it was a poke or a joke

As for the driving around, I think that is normal for a lot of people. It is an abnormal event and it is interesting to see the effects. I think it more odd when people aren't interested in the effects of massive amounts of water. I too do the same thing and saw countless people doing it as well it seemed (or they were just stuck in the flooded area which could be possible...). I've been doing this since I could drive. I do it when it snows as well, I had a great car for snow so it was fun!

Having been driving after, and during floods, for years I've seen a lot and learned what the area usually looks like and where gets the worst of the flooding - which is why this specific site is so darn odd. I wouldn't post if I was even slightly skeptical that the water could be going elsewhere, but the next closes stream (downhill area) is miles away over a 150+ft elevation, so it would be very difficult for the water to move elsewhere than the basin and it would be very apparent in the surrounding farmland or business centers had the water flowed there as it is all visible from the roads.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

The other thing that comes to mind is a clogged storm drain/drains.
Sometimes roots or plants can completely block a drain.
Are the lots in good shape, are there a lot of cracks and other places for the water to go.

I do a lot of gardening and you'd be surprised how much a very small change can impact water flow.
Did something new get built nearby and water is being diverted there?

I can't imagine they are pumping that graywater somewhere else. If they are you would have probably seen them putting in pipes.

Could it be that the rainwater is refilling an underground aquifer?

radar only shows where rain is falling not where it lands

ufo ... thats crazzy they would be taking way better water it must of been the mole people

sometime the ground can really suck up water 1 small shift in the right spot could empty a entire lake in the blink of a eye

Well like I said we are talking about 2 large NFL football stadium's in size worth of water, missing. Not even a drop has made it to the basin, this isn't like a small % is missing, this is 100% not making it to the basin.

The lot is in "perfect shape", it is fully utilized and fully maintained. There are no trees that could grow roots. This lot was built by a multi-billion $$ company and this isn't water just sinking into the ground. That doesn't happen on asphalt parking lots. The reason they build large basins nine 4 ft diameter drainage pipes leaving the facility is because water doesn't soak into this ground! I can't make that any more clear. Have any of you ever seen rain soak into asphalt. It is made of tar'd gravel - meaning it doesn't allow water penetration.

I can't see how it could soak into the ground, if it does then there are some MASSIVE caves underground, which is worth exploring - both the idea and the cave.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

Has this basin ever been higher than it is right now? (sorry if you already answered that I didn't see it)

Maybe there is an outflow pipe to ensure it stays at a certain level?
do you have a google earth pic of the basin?

salt mine would do a whole lake drained over a tiny hole in a salt mine

not a cave to say just a crack look at devils hole its not a big entrance but so vast inside we have no idea how big it is and dont explore it most do not come back up

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: DigginFoTroof

Has this basin ever been higher than it is right now? (sorry if you already answered that I didn't see it)

Maybe there is an outflow pipe to ensure it stays at a certain level?
do you have a google earth pic of the basin?

The odd thing is that I have never seen it full even after floods of the entire state (like hurricane Sandy and similar). I did see some new "high water" flood lines after a mid-summer flood, but by the time the roads opened the water level had dropped back down, though, oddly, the plantlife (like detached lily pads all pushed to one side, like other wetlands when it floods) wasn't disturbed or covered in mud like every other drainage basin.

There are outflow pipes, 3 of them at different heights, but the water is 2 meters below them and the water line (mud line) hasn't changed since winter thaw.

The maps don't show much and I would prefer not to post that online unless there is a reason. I did talk to the township office and will contact the zoning engineer as there was a study done and there are plans/permits for the premisis.

Please add comments to existing thread here - www.abovetopsecret.com...

Thread closed.