I have Aphantasia, my 'Minds Eye' starts working--what in the Hell am i seeing and why *this*?

originally posted by: Romanov
2- I can't "see", but I can easily "hear" things in my imagination, especially music, and even complex ones, like symphonies. If I want, I can hear one of Beethoven' symphonies that I know better (like the 5th or the 9th) in my imagination any time. Most of the time it is not very clear and very different from really listening, but sometimes it is almost real (usually happens spontaneously, and is quite striking due to being very close to the real thing).

I find this very interesting. I think it is pretty much well accepted that there are various anomalous ways of perceiving and "imagining". There are those that see colours when they hear certain sounds or words, or in response to emotions, for example. Being able to play back music in your head is perhaps an aural version of picturing. You could therefore appreciate that if you had a greater proclivity towards imagining sounds that having too vivid a pictorial memory might prove distracting. Much depends upon what it means to you, but I would be inclined to wonder if this is a quality that might incline some towards musical pursuits because their aural reality is richer and more defined than their visual one. Not sure, but I do wonder, you say that your dreams are visually bland, how are they in terms of sound? I ask because my dreams are visually quite splendid, but kind of quiet most of the time...my "bad" dreams are noisy, that's part of what makes them bad.

a reply to: Justshrug

This thread is driving me crazy

I can see things with my eyes closed - I can see things in my head even with my eyes open. It's like they're in another room - but they're there

Then I start wondering - am I really seeing them? I always assumed I was. Or, are we all seeing/not seeing the same things the same way, but we just don't know how to communicate it?

It's hard to imagine the experience of another person

Fascinating thread - and this part:

Your reaction will probably mirror mine and the hundreds before me: you are stunned that your mind works so different and feel an overwhelming sadness for several days that you have been missing out on a large part of the human experience. I cried for three days straight. Don’t carry the sadness, there is beauty in the differences of how you experience life and consciousness:

This really got to me

I read years ago about a man who was a painter - who somehow lost the ability to see color. He thought his life was over, but he got back to work eventually and started producing the best work of his life in black and white - and grey. It became about value instead of color. He had to learn to think differently, but in the end it worked out for him and he became a better artist than he was before

originally posted by: KilgoreTrout

Not sure, but I do wonder, you say that your dreams are visually bland, how are they in terms of sound? I ask because my dreams are visually quite splendid, but kind of quiet most of the time...my "bad" dreams are noisy, that's part of what makes them bad.

Exactly, some times I have dream only with music, or noise. Some very beautiful, a few times scary, like screams (sometimes I hear voices screaming my name even when awake, when I was a kid or a teenager it was more common) or some music like marches.

edit on 16-9-2018 by Romanov because: (no reason given)

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

That is exactly what happened to Beethoven, when he lost his hearing was when he started composing his most creative, unique and beautiful music. I think not being able to hear external sounds made him focus much more on the music he had inside.

originally posted by: Romanov
Exactly, some times I have dream only with music, or noise. Some very beautiful, a few times scary, like screams (sometimes I hear voices screaming my name even when awake, when I was a kid or a teenager it was more common) or some music like marches.

Interesting, thanks for clarifying that. I get exploding head syndrome (which is much more benign, at least in my case, than it sounds), just random sounds though...crashes and bangs, that sort of thing. Nothing even remotely musical.

a reply to: Justshrug
First of all, congratulation for being able to open your mind eyes. Yes, it sound incredible, doesn't it?

Being able to imagine isn't just about creating invicible movie where you are the sole audience. It's about living in it and through it. And it does not always apply when you close your eyes.

You can imagine things even with your eyes open in broad daylight, while you are doing other things. The scary part is, sometime you can be confused when reality collide with illusion. For example, when you attempt to cross a busy road, you see many cars moving very fast from both directions. However, in reality, you are just standing at the side of empty road and some people maybe surprise why you haven't cross the road yet. Sometime it'a difficult to tell reality apart and you feel like on the verge of madness, especially when the things you see is not something of this world, and no one believe everything you say. Not even your own family. Not to mentioned, you get injuries and bruise for trying to defend yourself and people are thinking you've been possessed by demon or having mental break down. As you can see... It's no wonder why some people become withdrawn from society and choose to be secretive about their personal life.

Our mind is complex consciousness. I'm glad you have open your mind to things beyond.

a reply to: EasternShadow

Although I don't usually have visual hallucinations, when I was particularly psychotic my visual perception became really very distorted. Not in an obvious way, more in an interpretative way but there was accentuation in strange subtle ways, like flipping between lens filters...a bit. There are about two weeks in which I cannot really know what was there and what wasn't, three days of utter madness (but still relatively functional otherwise). Afterwards I was really worried that my mind would erase the traffic, had to wait for someone else to cross before me. Kind of the reverse of what you have to go through, but I can to a small extent relate. I'm getting over it now, but it did make me realise that there is a little leap of faith involved in how we experience our realities.

a reply to: Justshrug
Hi,
First thank you for shearing your experience
I would very strongly recommend you contacting Jack Kornfeild. He holds a Ph.D. in clinical psychology but he is also a Buddhist monk and a master in spiritual meditation. He is not a "guru" and his approach is both deeply spiritual but also scientific. There is a real benefit of doing meditation but you must also avoid being misguided by experience that can lead you in a wrong path. He is not a dogmatic person, does not try to convert you to any religious endeavour and really can help find a proper road towards spiritual growth. I think you should first try to contact him via email.

He does make a living from his teaching, but he is honest about it. I attended some of his retreats on the east coast. I have travelled in South Asia and China and I can tell you that he is the real thing.
I sincerely hope you can find some guidance
WuChang

originally posted by: WuChang
a reply to: Justshrug
Hi,
First thank you for shearing your experience
I would very strongly recommend you contacting Jack Kornfeild. He holds a Ph.D. in clinical psychology but he is also a Buddhist monk and a master in spiritual meditation. He is not a "guru" and his approach is both deeply spiritual but also scientific. There is a real benefit of doing meditation but you must also avoid being misguided by experience that can lead you in a wrong path. He is not a dogmatic person, does not try to convert you to any religious endeavour and really can help find a proper road towards spiritual growth. I think you should first try to contact him via email.

He does make a living from his teaching, but he is honest about it. I attended some of his retreats on the east coast. I have travelled in South Asia and China and I can tell you that he is the real thing.
I sincerely hope you can find some guidance
WuChang

Thanks for the reply. Can you speak more about "being led down the wrong path." I don't understand what you are saying and from my own experiences I can't relate to that being s possibility.

Thanks

originally posted by: Justshrug

originally posted by: CainHarmbank


A few times I hear a voice yelling some cryptic phrase at me... like I'm supposed to understand what the hell they're talking about...

Sometimes a face will form...

An image of a wall was a recent vision...

But most of the time I just see patches of colors, and the orb flickering on and off... like a cell phone charging... And then I fall asleep...

I have never heard a voice/sound/song/whisper anything. I can't imagine what that would be like, im sure it would completely freak me out. How often do you hear a 'voice' or something like a third party speaking to you?

It is pretty rare for me. Maybe 4 or 5 times in the past 5 years.

And only just before I'm about to fall asleep.

The last time it was a woman's voice that said

"Why did you ask THAT?"

And then I got startled awake.

It's more common for me dream in kind of hyper changing symbols, maybe once every 1 week or 2 weeks, just before I wake up after sleeping for a while.

For instance, this morning I dreamed something like tigers that kept infecting people with their kisses and then multiplying.

It made me think of mononucleosis, the kissing disease.

a reply to: SourcePage

originally posted by: SourcePage
to meditate you must stop visualising entirely. Never ever ever visualise anything as long as you live. Visualising is a disease. Something that is very dangerous & holds you in illusion. God takes you to what seems similar to the dark side of the moon & you see faint objects that do not want to be held & do have clarity when they go away from you. This is God's way. Or The Angel of God's way. Of telling you that On Your Own Back, right behind you, there is an angel of God that goes into hiding when it comes to the earth & remains as a indistinct nothing right at back of you & observes you, & it is not allowed to be held by you & for you to do so would be deadly to it & to yourself, for you both would be burned like when touching fire & hot ice, & yet when the angel leaves you it becomes its true self again & is quite clear & distinct from the background around it. I am sorry for not being more clear.

Anyway everyone has an angel right behind them. In The Book Of Revelations the guy is in the spirit (astral world) & he turns around & The Angel of God is right behind him. That is what everyone on earth can experience if they want to. But anyway you are being taught that there are stars in the place where man can see nothing & those stars watch your mind & know when you try to grab them, & they avoid being handled by you. It is the basic lesson that you need to learn before you can learn more. The angels are very vulnerable. You must never try to hold them. Ever. They will tell you when it is safe to do so. When Christ appeared after His crucifixion He told people not to touch Him. It's a similar thing that all angels of God require until the conditions are right.

Anyway I am wasting my time talking to humans as usual. They all learn at their own speed & cannot learn from other people unless the other people repeat what they already know.

I just want to say that you should be happy that your mind cannot visualise things. Because now you have a clear mind & can let God do the visuals instead. Just watch the clear mind & let God do everything. never try to reach out & grab a hold of things as you have been trying to do. Just observe & let God start teaching you. I've seen many cases where God starts manifesting visions to teach people lessons, & the people get emotional & try to reach out with their minds & interact with the spiritual lessons. This always makes God angry because it's like a child trying to grab hold of toys on a computer screen. It is just a visual lesson that seems very real. So just remain where you are, do not reach out or try to grab or control what you are seeing, remain still & empty of thought, & just observe what happens next. When you learn that then God or The Angel of God will see you are ready to be taught much more.

Once again, visualising things is wrong & must be completely refrained from as long as one lives. Never ever do it. Ever. Only morons do that.

You have nailed it. Sadly no one is listening. Your way is higher because it comes from above which is the source. It's a higher level. A buddhist will empty his mind but his emptiness is death. Your emptiness fills you with life.
Im not afraid of visualizing good things. I suck in it but at least in theory. It's not a sick magic. We have been given a brain like this and even a penises like this so it is part of our life.
What comes through my mind is a mystery question: Are women visualizing more powerfully than men? Are they altering the reality of this world? They clearly control men even if it seems the other way, and give a manifesting, materializing energy to their ideas. You sure are familiar with the Shakti principle, arent you? Do you think it is necessary evil? Especially when man's head is Jesus

a reply to: jhonmiller

Incredible synchronicity - I hoovered my room out yesterday for the first time in 3 months - then today i see this thread which I would never have seen without the robot vacuum bump.

And yes, I think that I have this condition also - I would best describe it as trying to visualise things I have seen but they have turned into vapour, and you can see the vague shadowy concept of what you are remembering in amongst the steam.

And more synchronicity - I have had a bad chest infection this week from a virus - and I clicked on the link above, stupid I know, and I think that I may have caught the other kind of virus.

I am happy with the vacuum cleaner we already have, thanks - even if I can't visualise it it my mind's eye.

I read a post on 4chan once, where a person claimed they had a successful treatment for aphantasia.
Unfortunately I don't remember the process they went through, it was some kind of cognitive therapy. Cant find it now, either.

Edit: I remembered! They used the part of the brain associated with feeling motion!

They would think about basic shapes, and as they thought of them, they would move their heads and neck in patterns. So for like a triangle, they would keep their eyes straight and move their head as if they were outlining a triangle with their line of sight.

They apparently did this for many basic concepts and shapes, essentially they wired the feeling of the head motion with those objects. No need to "visualize" it was giving their brain a different way to process concepts that would work very similar to full visualization.

If the doctor then asked them to think of a triangle, their brain would trigger the feeling of the head motion happening.

I think they also said that they would do this, with and without sensory deprivation, to help develop the rewiring.