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POLITICS: Can the USA be Repossessed?
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It's not a stupid question says MSNBC's "Answer Desk." Many people are wondering the same thing. Even Federal Reserve Chairman Greenspan "said
it's hard to know whether the world is ready to cough up another $2 trillion or so - on top of the $7.7 trillion Uncle Sam has already borrowed." But
the Treasury bond "repo man" comes in the form of rising interest rates, not foreclosure. It "would be political suicide to lead the U.S. into a
default on its debts," says the Answer Desk.
www.msnbc.msn.com
...you’re not the only one wondering just how long Uncle Sam’s borrowing spree can keep going before the rest of the world says, “Enough, already!” This week, Fed Chairman Greenspan himself said it’s hard to know whether the world is ready to cough up another $2 trillion or so - on top of the $7.7 trillion Uncle Sam has already borrowed - to “fix” the U.S. Social Security system. Borrowing from Defense Secretary Rumsfeld’s now-famous soliloquy on “unknown unknowns,” the Chairman told Congress that the problem with gauging the impact of all that new federal borrowing is “not knowing and not knowing how to know.” (We're trying to remember the last time Mr. Greenspan admitted to being that stumped about anything.)
...the debt we’re talking about is Treasury bills, bonds and notes - the IOUs that the U.S. government auctions off every three months to raise enough cash to keep the country going.
Unlike your car loan, which is backed by the car itself, Treasury securities are backed only by the “full faith and credit” of the U.S. government - essentially, Uncle Sam's word that you'll get repaid. (It’s a little better than “cross our hearts and hope to die” but it is, in the end, just a promise.)
...If they (investors) start to get the least bit nervous about that “full faith and credit” business, they can - and often do - demand higher interest rates. ...Higher rates can be just as bad as having your car towed from your driveway in the middle of the night. The more debt the U.S. government tries to sell, the more likely it is that it will have to sweeten the deal with higher rates to unload them. And that increased cost of borrowing hurts all of us – whether you're applying for a mortgage or trying to expand your businesses to hire more people.
....it would be political suicide to lead the U.S. into a default on its debts. Such a default would destroy the purchasing power of the dollar, cripple U.S. businesses, consumers and investors, and land us in the company of other countries that have reneged on their loans and suffered very painful economic consequences - sometimes for decades.
Please visit the link provided for the complete story.
Okay. It would be political suicide to lead the U.S. into a default on its debts. But what does Bush care? This is his last term. He's already pushed through most of his agenda and he's ready to bail now.
The interest payments on the US debt are $2.2 billion dollars every day already. If Bush stays, and quits his spending spree, the interest alone still will add up to $50 trillion dollars by the end of his term.
Who's gonna dig us out without raising taxes?
Related News Links:
www.brillig.com
www.msnbc.msn.com
...you’re not the only one wondering just how long Uncle Sam’s borrowing spree can keep going before the rest of the world says, “Enough, already!” This week, Fed Chairman Greenspan himself said it’s hard to know whether the world is ready to cough up another $2 trillion or so - on top of the $7.7 trillion Uncle Sam has already borrowed - to “fix” the U.S. Social Security system. Borrowing from Defense Secretary Rumsfeld’s now-famous soliloquy on “unknown unknowns,” the Chairman told Congress that the problem with gauging the impact of all that new federal borrowing is “not knowing and not knowing how to know.” (We're trying to remember the last time Mr. Greenspan admitted to being that stumped about anything.)
...the debt we’re talking about is Treasury bills, bonds and notes - the IOUs that the U.S. government auctions off every three months to raise enough cash to keep the country going.
Unlike your car loan, which is backed by the car itself, Treasury securities are backed only by the “full faith and credit” of the U.S. government - essentially, Uncle Sam's word that you'll get repaid. (It’s a little better than “cross our hearts and hope to die” but it is, in the end, just a promise.)
...If they (investors) start to get the least bit nervous about that “full faith and credit” business, they can - and often do - demand higher interest rates. ...Higher rates can be just as bad as having your car towed from your driveway in the middle of the night. The more debt the U.S. government tries to sell, the more likely it is that it will have to sweeten the deal with higher rates to unload them. And that increased cost of borrowing hurts all of us – whether you're applying for a mortgage or trying to expand your businesses to hire more people.
....it would be political suicide to lead the U.S. into a default on its debts. Such a default would destroy the purchasing power of the dollar, cripple U.S. businesses, consumers and investors, and land us in the company of other countries that have reneged on their loans and suffered very painful economic consequences - sometimes for decades.
Please visit the link provided for the complete story.
Okay. It would be political suicide to lead the U.S. into a default on its debts. But what does Bush care? This is his last term. He's already pushed through most of his agenda and he's ready to bail now.
The interest payments on the US debt are $2.2 billion dollars every day already. If Bush stays, and quits his spending spree, the interest alone still will add up to $50 trillion dollars by the end of his term.
Who's gonna dig us out without raising taxes?
Related News Links:
www.brillig.com
Only until 2006, then it doesn't matter. Perhaps he has read the 'codes'.
Originally posted by DrHoracid
Only until 2006, then it doesn't matter. Perhaps he has read the 'codes'.
I noticed about 4 years ago that the looting and pillaging suddenly escalated - like the elite expected something, and wanted all the gold before it happened.
...Care to share any more info, DrH?
.
No the U.S. cannot be repo'd in the coventional manner. Much like the perpetual bankrupcies of some of the South American counties. For one, the U.S.
could simply refuse to pay off its debts. No doubt the entire economy of the world would collapse, and basically, instead of trade you would use your
standing military to seize goods and material needed.
However, we are basically talking about a total end of civilization as we know it and replaced with at best small collective groups combined for self protection, to worst case absolute anarchy
However, we are basically talking about a total end of civilization as we know it and replaced with at best small collective groups combined for self protection, to worst case absolute anarchy
Originally posted by FredT
we are basically talking about a total end of civilization as we know it and replaced with at best small collective groups combined for self protection, to worst case absolute anarchy
Well, it's that or an incredibly unbelievably huge tax hike. And it won't come out of corporate coffers.
.
No it may not be able to be repo, but like Soficrow said it will be pass to us the citizens, while the wealthy and powerful has make themselves more
wealthy with the bush administration we are going to be left with the paying of the deficit.
So get ready people because it's coming and is not what the good Dr. is implying we will be here in ten years and in 100 and what we are making of the nation and the world now it's sure to follow us and our next generations to come, we are Indebted, thanks to our government.
So get ready people because it's coming and is not what the good Dr. is implying we will be here in ten years and in 100 and what we are making of the nation and the world now it's sure to follow us and our next generations to come, we are Indebted, thanks to our government.
Originally posted by marg6043
No it may not be able to be repo, but like Soficrow said it will be pass to us the citizens, while the wealthy and powerful has make themselves more wealthy with the bush administration we are going to be left with the paying of the deficit.
So get ready people because it's coming and is not what the good Dr. is implying we will be here in ten years and in 100 and what we are making of the nation and the world now it's sure to follow us and our next generations to come, we are Indebted, thanks to our government.
Hmmm. You are sharp, marg.
Do you think all this chatter about earth changes and catastrophes is just to convince us it doesn't matter that we're so deep in debt even our great-great-great-grandchildren will still be paying? ...and who owns us, anyway?
.
But what else sofi what else, the power behind the government the ones that now can even decide who is the president or not.
The big corporations.
Sometime alone the line US was trade by corporations to the highest bider.
The big corporations.
Sometime alone the line US was trade by corporations to the highest bider.
Originally posted by marg6043
Sometime alone the line US was trade by corporations to the highest bider.
Sucks to be indentured, don't it. ...At least we have cool fashions to wear to the mall.
.
Well you are right all for profits so we at least are not force to wear nation mandated uniforms, we are given enough to be able to feel like we have
a choice and spend what we get so the profits keeps on rolling.
Hey, I need my high heels, got to show my legs you know.
Hey, I need my high heels, got to show my legs you know.
.
.
.
More seriously marg, Do you think Bush is just going to run this country right into the ground because he's gone anyway? ...He and his buddies already have the cash...
.
.
.
More seriously marg, Do you think Bush is just going to run this country right into the ground because he's gone anyway? ...He and his buddies already have the cash...
.
Originally posted by soficrow
.
.
.
More seriously marg, Do you think Bush is just going to run this country right into the ground because he's gone anyway? ...He and his buddies already have the cash...
.
I truly believe that running the country through the ground may not happened but it will be a lot of sweat by us the working force in this country the ones to bring it back.
But I tell you the corporate power has taken hold and it will keep it as long as it's allowed, but history tells that corporations when given to much power tends to corrupt and fall apart.
We have seen how the power in the country has distributed so I feel that we have been rob blind everyday of our lives and they are unstoppable now, but not for ever.
The US already declared bankruptcy back in the day. How can a bankrupt nation default on a loan? I guess it doesn't matter though if you are the
biggest military power in the world.
Originally posted by marg6043
history tells that corporations when given to much power tends to corrupt and fall apart.
We have seen how the power in the country has distributed so I feel that we have been rob blind everyday of our lives and they are unstoppable now, but not for ever.
On another thread, sardion recommended that we charge corporations with criminal charges. Do you think that might work?
.
Something has to be done...
when is someone going to say to Bush
"I know you wanted to spend more money on programs that help your buddies... but we don't have it... nope, we can't get any more money... well we will have to steal it..."
OH wait... that was iraq....
well i guess he figured out a way afterall...
I like the suggestion of holding companies (and government agencies) responsible for wastes and corruption...
I really feel that the middle class is being culled... they are moving some up, but most down...
it will be a 2 class country before long... the rich and the poor... rich if you are rich enough to avoid having to pay your part, but poor if you can't...
the middle class is the one that helps the lower class move up... not the upper class... they would prefer status quo...
without the middle class the rich are protected from ever losing there place.
when is someone going to say to Bush
"I know you wanted to spend more money on programs that help your buddies... but we don't have it... nope, we can't get any more money... well we will have to steal it..."
OH wait... that was iraq....
well i guess he figured out a way afterall...
I like the suggestion of holding companies (and government agencies) responsible for wastes and corruption...
I really feel that the middle class is being culled... they are moving some up, but most down...
it will be a 2 class country before long... the rich and the poor... rich if you are rich enough to avoid having to pay your part, but poor if you can't...
the middle class is the one that helps the lower class move up... not the upper class... they would prefer status quo...
without the middle class the rich are protected from ever losing there place.
Personally our debt clock isn't exactly filling me with confidence in our leaders. For some reason I'm getting the feeling that maybe politicians
aren't stupid, quite the opposite, maybe they're actually just trying to get rich at the peoples expense.
Anyhow I suppose the only comfort I have is that with a 360 billion dollar military budget and about 12,000 nuclear warheads at our disposal, it would be suicide to try playing repo man. My plan is to first stop borrowing money, second stop the debt clock, and then start paying off those debts at a steady rate.
Anyhow I suppose the only comfort I have is that with a 360 billion dollar military budget and about 12,000 nuclear warheads at our disposal, it would be suicide to try playing repo man. My plan is to first stop borrowing money, second stop the debt clock, and then start paying off those debts at a steady rate.
Kinda off topic but why do you think other countries continue to loan the US money when they know there is a good chance they will never see the debt
repaid? It seems almost like a mob type of situation, like they are giving us money so we side with them perhaps? I don't know, just seems odd, I
wouldn't morgage my house to help a friend out if i though there was not much of a chance to get that money back.
Originally posted by Mozo
Kinda off topic but why do you think other countries continue to loan the US money when they know there is a good chance they will never see the debt repaid? .... I don't know, just seems odd, I wouldn't morgage my house to help a friend out if i though there was not much of a chance to get that money back.
They're making money hand over fist now, on the interest payments. They bought them because the US has a good rep for paying debts.
...I don't worry about other nations buying our bonds - but I DO worry about maybe Carlyle or the Bank of International Settlements picking up the paper. IMO - we'll be in real trouble then - if we don't have the jam to tell them where to stick it.
.
Originally posted by soficrow
On another thread, sardion recommended that we charge corporations with criminal charges. Do you think that might work?
.
The attached document, Federal Prosecution of Corporations, provides guidance as to what factors should generally inform a prosecutor in making the decision whether to charge a corporation in a particular case. I believe these factors provide a useful framework in which prosecutors can analyze their cases and provide a common vocabulary for them to discuss their decision with fellow prosecutors, supervisors, and defense counsel.
This is a link to the government guide lines to procecutions I also posted on the other thread.
www.usdoj.gov...
Occurs this is before bush administraton so I have not clue if some changes has been done to benefit the corporations.
Originally posted by marg6043
The attached document, Federal Prosecution of Corporations, provides guidance as to what factors should generally inform a prosecutor in making the decision whether to charge a corporation in a particular case. I believe these factors provide a useful framework in which prosecutors can analyze their cases and provide a common vocabulary for them to discuss their decision with fellow prosecutors, supervisors, and defense counsel.
This is a link to the government guide lines to procecutions I also posted on the other thread.
www.usdoj.gov...
Occurs this is before bush administraton so I have not clue if some changes has been done to benefit the corporations.
Great work as usual marg. Thanks.
So these guys had identified the problem before Bush was elected, and were trying to get some action taken. Hmmm. Now they're kinda blocked. Hmmm, again.
.
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