Fox & Friends Poll Designed to Discredit Medicare for All Explodes in Their Face

a reply to: atsgrounded

I think there are probably 3 or 4 issues here that we are smashing into one argument.

To your comment, no. I think we are unhealthy because of our love of health care and fascination with spending large amounts of money on it. The more money we spend, the more diseases they come up with to soak up that money all the while not curing a single thing. They just paper over the symptoms with pills until death comes a knockin'.

But we have been brainwashed into this scenario. We, the people who love mainstream anything, will bow to the easy answers. We can abuse ourselves with impunity and then this wonderful 'health care' will step in and make us better when we start noticing the damage. They start this brainwashing at a very young age. From that self abuse, they reap massive profits.

What makes you think that if the magic juice (income stream) came from the government instead of the private sector, that their greed would be satiated? I would state it would become even more grotesque with even less controls.

We are going back to the drug dealer for answers to the abuse they inflicted on us in the first place. But somehow we think they will care this time. Just this time will be different. See, I don't have to think. It is in someone else's hands now. Thank goodness. Now back to that bigmac and 57 oz soft drink......mmmmmmmmmmm

originally posted by: atsgrounded
a reply to: highvein

Don't let the media lead you too far from logic.

VA Rates High on Patient Satisfaction in National Survey
www.blogs.va.gov...

I don't listen to the media. I use my own experience with the VA to make my determination of how satisfied I am with their services.

Which is low.

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: FyreByrd


How much does America spend on "healthcare" now? $33 Trillion over 10 years might be a bargain?

Edit: I see in 2015, it was $3.2 Trillion.
Source: www.forbes.com...

OK, so over 10 years that comes to ... 32 Trillion dollars. And with inflation that comes to ???

a reply to: ClovenSky

The people did what they were told-diet.
The lipid study in the 1950's (I think) set into motion a cascading effect of lies, lobbying, cash crops and a food pyramid that is designed to fatten pigs not feed humans.

To your comment, no. I think we are unhealthy because of our love of health care and fascination with spending large amounts of money on it. The more money we spend, the more diseases they come up with to soak up that money all the while not curing a single thing. They just paper over the symptoms with pills until death comes a knockin'.

Again I think the present system is doomed, and the Health insurance execs will ride this bitch into the ground.

And I know change is scary-but ready or not, here it comes.

The key thing I want is for everyone who thinks Medicare is great, be able to buy into it. Don't make it a free hand-out. Medicaid is a free. But for those who think Medicare is better than private insurance, and can afford the $100 to $400 a month buy-in premium, let them give it a go.

a reply to: atsgrounded

We are almost in agreement then. I just dislike your forced focus on private health care execs. It almost appears your are leaving the greatest enablers out of this equation, our government. The blame should be spread far and wide, even including ourselves.

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: Throes

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: CharlesT

Being rather selfish and self serving, are you?

I work for my own money and support my own family... I'm not exchanging my precious time, blood, sweat, and tears to support people I owe no responsibility to.

You already do. Where do you think your health insurance payments disappear to, a void? No, they get pooled, then pulled and used to pay another policy holder's claims.

Seriously dude. You're already playing a socialist game here, you just don't realize it.

It’s not a socialist game. My employer goes through a process to select the best private insurance company for our pool. There is no selection process when it comes to socialized health care. We need to end the cronyism and create a true free market health care system. We need to do the opposite of socialized medicine. We haven’t had a free market health system in over a half of a century.

And after your employer picks a company, what's next?

The payments become a large pool for all paying into it to redraw from to pay claims. Ergo, it's socialism on a private scale.

If you seriously think that your premium is set aside earmarked for ONLY YOU to ever use again, you are a deluded fool like no other.

There is a competitive market. Competition is eliminated when we give this to the government to run. Yes, I understand what actuarial scientists do and how they create plans based on the pool and how the payments work. I’m in favor of letting a true free market exist rather than giving our government another program to screw up.

a reply to: Throes

Other countries costs are in direct opposition to your post.
Maybe a "Free" market works but I have my doubts about an inelastic need like med care.

The only thing worse than the govt getting a tax and never letting that go is a business that has a virtual and actual monopoly giving up a cash cow profit machine.

Hell maybe the world got single payer wrong and we got it right.

originally posted by: atsgrounded
a reply to: Throes

Other countries costs are in direct opposition to your post.
Maybe "Free" market works but I have my doubts about an inelastic need like med care.

The only thing worse than the govt getting a tax and never letting that go is a business that has a virtual and actual monopoly give up a cash cow profit machine.

Hell maybe the world is wrong and we got it right.

We haven’t had a true free market health system. Truly free markets are the best known ways to date in maximizing efficiency and minimizing costs. We do NOT have a free market health system.

originally posted by: atsgrounded
a reply to: burdman30ott6

If you belong/buy into any sort of insurance you are doing exactly what you don't want to do. Private insurance is privatized socialism.

Honestly, I don't give a rat's ass how many Americans support it... I'm not paying for your damn healthcare. I'll cover my own responsibilities, as I always have, please feel free to do the same.

Do you have home insurance?

You are entirely correct that insurance is privatized socialism. The key word here is private. If you want to live according to socialist principles, it's your free choice to do so. But when you go political and take away the choice, I object. I've paid my fines to the mighty government each year since the Congress in their great wisdom bowed to their masters and required every one of us to buy health insurance, whether we felt we had a need for it or not. That's not even socialism---that's fascism, attempting to force me to purchase a particular product. I've paid the government thousands of dollars in order to avoid paying some corporate conglomerate tens of thousands for a service I do not need.

I'm perfectly fine with participating in privatized socialism. I'm against making it mandatory.

And before you go on about my not caring about other people's health, I will say that I believe in and am active in promoting and providing free health care for those in need. When our local public hospital's emergency services were being pinched hard by uninsured patients, they identified a need for a free clinic where the uninsured could get the care they needed in order to avoid the emergency room visit. Our local governing board herded about a dozen of us who worked in or had worked in the health care profession into a room and challenged us to work with several local non-profits to establish a free clinic. That was in the summer of 1996. We worked steadily at finding a sustainable method of establishing and maintaining such a facility. In August of 1999 that clinic opened and is still in operation today, supported entirely by voluntary donations.

There are viable alternatives to mandatory government health care but they need to be local solutions for local problems.

a reply to: annoyedpharmacist

Point is, it isnt MY RESPONSIBILITY to pay for ANYONES insurance but my own.

If you live in a democratic country and the people vote for this than yes it is your responsibility to follow the laws.

also, I said my car payment, not the entire car.......

Like I said you are only paying a tiny portion of my insurance.
Prove that not having a car is going to kill you or change the laws and I will pay a tiny portion of your car payment.

a reply to: Throes

Little secret, our whole economic system is not a free market. And with wealth being pulled to the top since the late 1970's it is very unlikely that any change is likely.

Wealth is power and this will not be solved by the powerful, it will be solved at the ballot box or in non payments into a damaged system among damaged systems.

a reply to: angeldoll

Medicare is a LOT better than what most have under Obamacare.
Obamacare sucks for middle-class America.

Plain, unvarnished Medicare only pays 80%......many opt for Medicare Advantage....which costs extra...from very little to quite a lot.
But at least there are financially viable options.
And way better than Obamacare.

a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

True, I listen to my parents complain (retired fixed income Medicare) complain about 30$ to see the dr. I don't tell them the absolute mess of a policy I have.

originally posted by: atsgrounded
a reply to: Throes

Little secret, our whole economic system is not a free market. And with wealth being pulled to the top since the late 1970's it is very unlikely that any change is likely.

Wealth is power and this will not be solved by the powerful, it will be solved at the ballot box or in non payments into a damaged system among damaged systems.

Calm down Bernie. I’ve pulled this from the web, and I’m in agreement with the article below:

www.kevinmd.com...

originally posted by: ClovenSky
a reply to: FyreByrd

Look, I love the idea of taking care of everyone, regardless of how well they take care of themselves. It feels good. It turns me into a keyboard hero and brings me lots and lots of friends. But it is complete fantasy.

If you really wanted to know how this free for all medical/medicine scheme would turn out, flip the rosy pie in the sky fantasy 180 degrees and you will be a lot closer to the truth.

You see, I am being compassionate in stating that getting insurance and government out of health care would be the best possible thing we could do for humanity. If I were truly sadistic and just didn't give a crap about my fellow human being anymore, I would shout out and champion free health care.

It is called reality. How do you not see this?

Because what you seem to know isn't a reality. The reality is that if all put in some we can take care of all. It works in other countries, quite well and for less overall cost.

Life is not a zero-sum game. There is more then enough for all. It is only those 'obsessed' with wealth and power that believe differently - fear makes them insecure and belligerent.

originally posted by: CB328

it isnt MY RESPONSIBILITY to pay for ANYONES insurance but my own

And is it our responsibility to pay for your roads, and schools, and military, and meat inspection?

You people have a very shortsighted, selfish and immature worldview, no wonder America sucks so much these days.

originally posted by: Throes
Canada wait times:


www.fraserinstitute.org...

Can’t wait for this!

The Fraser Institute bias Fraser Institute. The Fraser Institute is a Canadian public policy think tank and registered charity. It has been described as politically conservative and libertarian. Fraser Institute - Wikipedia

a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

I don't look forward to the change, but I won't complain if everybody has it. Everybody needs something.

If this happens, do you think even the one percent will have it too? Or will they still be able to buy private insurance?
I know when people turn a certain age, 65, I think, they get a letter from their old insurance company saying their insurance has been terminated and they must sign up for Medicare.

I'm just wondering if private insurance will still be available to those who can afford the premiums, or if they too, must change to Medicare? I mean, you know what I mean. If we're going to have it, then I want Donald Trump and Barack Obama to have it too. And George Clooney. And Oprah Winfrey.

All the same. You think?

originally posted by: Throes
My wife had an appt and they found she has an enlarged thyroid on Monday. She’s going to get an ultrasound this weekend.

The above will not happen in a socialized health care world.

How do you know? Personal experience.

Most medical is triaged by need. Not what 'you think you need' but by 'medical need'.