Mcrone Report - Conspiracy

Hello everyone

I am starting this thread as a political conspiracy , I do not want to create division among our ATS members from the UK I simply want people to take a look at the objective facts.

I want to address the fact that our government in Westminster have colluded to conspire against the people of Scotland.

If you are not aware of the McCrone report was conducted on behalf of the British Government about the value of Scotland's north sea oil reserves.

here is the wiki page

McCrone report

This report was conducted for the incoming government in 1974

Here is Gavin McCrone explaining the report , he has stated that the information wasnt exactly secret as it was available but from different sources
and would have been available to the public.
However the Government decided to withhold this information from the public in the form of a published report.

here is the video




there are a number of articles about this in the media from when the information was released under FOI

black gold theft

the accounting trick to hide scotlands wealth

I have seen this report before and have seen some discussion on ATS but nothing in terms of the report itself as a conspiracy to hide this from the people of Scotland.

add this to the every growing list of things the government lie to us about!
I just find this another reason to abolish our government and reform and build a better united kingdom!
if that means creating scotland as an independent nation first and then creating a new Union with England
with a better grasp over our own powers and resources.

a reply to: sapien82

The behaviour of the BBC during the Scottish referendum was proof enough, saddest aspect being they voted to remain part of the union

a reply to: Zcustosmorum

Because they've had a hard time since becoming part of the union. Their debts were paid, their colleges are paid for by the WHOLE of the UK, they get medicine for free because of ALL the taxes collected across the country. This is the one thing that drive me crazy about the independence rubbish is that it wasn't a vote for independence for two reasons 1 - They were asking to join the EU the very next day or stay as a member and claimed they could when the EU has said that wouldn't happen because Spain had already said it would veto and we all know why they would veto it and 2 - The fact that the Scots get more per head than every other person in the rest of the UK (bar England) and they still claimed they would use the pound even though that would mean their money is being controlled by a foreign government.

People were lied to from the SNP and the vote yes parts of it. Scotland would not be independent they would be under the boot of the EU and that was something the SNP would not admit to.

a reply to: sapien82

Having listened to the entire interview, I have a question that I feel needs an answer.

What, exactly, is it that you think the result of that obfuscation was?

The only reason I ask, is that it seems to me that the report issued by Mr McCrone, basically arrived at the same conclusions as those who voted to remain part of the UK, those being that while, yes it is perfectly possible for Scotland to go it alone, it is not necessarily advisable, especially as a result of fluctuating oil prices, and other unknowable variables, like the sort of interest rates it could expect to pay on its national debt.

Do you think the results of the referendum would have been different, had this reports contents been known? Surely this reports findings would only have added weight to the same side which eventually won that decision?

a reply to: sapien82

Not sure where you're getting colluded and conspired from. The bloke in the video says that the report wasn't for the public (not in those words exactly) and that it was written up for the government of the time and yes it used freely available information so if the report wasn't for the people but for the eyes of the government I'm not sure where it would be clear that they conspired to hide that information if it was already in the public domain and Mcrone just wrote a "report" on it so the lazy government figures would be able to read a summary of it.

Also, note at the end he was asked if Scotland could go it alone and he said yes then asked if they would be better off and after a pause he started to use round about words and gave no proper answer at first. I'm not defending any conservative because they are all pretty much in it for themselves (most politicians are as well) I'm just not sure where you got the conspired against part of your op.

I should say that I think the rest of the UK should get a vote on Scottish independence (Even though it isn't really independence when you use back door channels to try and remain part of the European UNION) just like they were given a vote on Brexit (which I voted for by the way). If they got to vote in a referendum that could change the way of the UK then we should get one when it comes to the Scots leaving (which again I'm for) tired of hearing that Scotland could do it on their own when already the EU said they cannot be a member, when they would remain using the pound but unable to control the interest rate of said money. But honestly I'd let them go and watch them flounder.

a reply to: Dwoodward85

People were lied to from the SNP and the vote yes parts of it. Scotland would not be independent they would be under the boot of the EU and that was something the SNP would not admit to.

Any lie, other than more Tory lies. The British Empire was built on blood and racism and the sooner it crumbles the better

a reply to: Zcustosmorum

Help us break it down and rebuilt it.

We know its bad, we don't like it, and we want it changed.

a reply to: TrueBrit

I think that had this report been made available to the great public and business at the time in 1974
Scotland would have become independent sometime in the 1980's , before Thatcher #ed it at least.

Leader of the Opposition: 1975–1979 See also: Shadow Cabinet of Margaret Thatcher The Heath ministry continued to experience difficulties with oil embargoes and union demands for wage increases in 1973

I wonder why they chose not to publish this info!

a reply to: TrueBrit

This is what I was saying , if its broken we should take it down and build it back up ! isnt that the "British" thing to do !

If by leaving the Union we force the hand and cause society to reject the current system for its corruption, then surely we could create a Union of Independent nations !
without the old house of lords and bishops , and without party politics and without all the division !

maybe we need to tear it down and build it back up but on equal footing
or at least with honesty and transparency , with a bit of respect for the people and the planet !

Also for the purposes of the thread and debate

can we please keep the Scotland England #e to a minimum , we aww ken its #e
but I want to discuss the report and why the government never published it to the masses

Ok forget the independence aspect of the report !

As a union Scotlands Oil would have made the British people wealthy !

yet as far as I can see the wealht from the north sea has been kept from the people and siphoned off by those at the top
into their offshore accounts or wherever

We would have been as rich as switzerland, that doesnt just mean scotland it means Britain, the people of England, Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland would have been rich.

They didnt just steal it from us , they stole if from you as well

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Zcustosmorum

Help us break it down and rebuilt it.

We know its bad, we don't like it, and we want it changed.

The people of England can decide if they want it or not, I'm totally for Scottish Independence and will remain so

@Dwoodward85 the UK is under the boot of the EU, heck maybe even Germany. Didn't may showed merke plans before she showed other members of what should be her own government.

@TrueBrit you don't have to do anything, your government, by ignoring the Leave vote is remodeling your country into something new.

a reply to: Zcustosmorum

You realise the Empire hasn't been around for a while right? And I wasn't talking about whether or not it was built on blood or not it's gone now but I will say, a lot of anger comes from your comment not sure why.

originally posted by: Dwoodward85
a reply to: Zcustosmorum

You realise the Empire hasn't been around for a while right? And I wasn't talking about whether or not it was built on blood or not it's gone now but I will say, a lot of anger comes from your comment not sure why.

Gone for a while but the sentiment of it still lingers and yeah I am angry at the crimes of this nation

England, Scotland, the UK, none of these own North Sea or Scottish oil. The rights to these were sold off in the 1980s by a certain female Prime Minister. What everybody has is just the tax revenue from production. Though this runs into billions it's a small amount compared to the overall production.
So it's not Scottish oil and it's not English oil it isn't even UK oil.

a reply to: SocratesJohnson

Its hardly ignored the vote.

What it has done, is wasted two years getting nothing done, doing nothing, sitting on its hands and hoping it will all go away, rather than bolstering British industry and British owned businesses, to protect jobs from the economic impact of the British exit from the EU, it has failed to ring fence our institutions and protect them from the economic effects either, it has failed ENTIRELY to prepare the country for ANY kind of exit, leave alone the fudge that it has designed, and has just been vetoed by the EU itself.

Those who wanted out for good reasons, will get shafted. Those who wanted out for bad reasons (for purely financial gain at the executive level) will prosper, and those who wanted to remain will get shafted also. The only people that this rollercoaster accident will benefit, are those who do not need to be handed any more success than they have already stolen for themselves.

a reply to: sapien82

I don't think The McCrone Report would have any impact on the last referendum as its findings were pretty much moot.

It does highlight failings of Westminster and is evidence of its secretive and manipulative nature - further proof of the need for radical reform.
And it also details just how negligent and wasteful successive governments have been in handling and using the revenue generated from North Sea oil.

During the last independence referendum campaign both sides used questionable tactics and blatantly exaggerated the benefits of their relative viewpoints whilst at times ignoring important questions raised by the other side.
In my opinion neither side came out of it with much credibility.

The similarities between that and the EU referendum are quite startling - they both served to create even less confidence and respect I have in our electoral and parliamentary systems and in those who thrive in them than I had before, something I thought impossible.

I understand why Scots would feel estranged, but they aren't unique.
So many parts of the UK feel the same, certainly people here in the North East feel just as detached from Westminster as anyone else.

Its what we do about it that's important.

Whinging and moaning from behind a keyboard is simple.

Acts and deeds are what count.

We are far better and stronger together and together we can make a difference and we can rebuild our electoral and parliamentary procedures into something that is fit for purpose and by extension start changing these united nations of ours into something we can be proud of.

Rant over, apologies.

a reply to: Zcustosmorum

You realise that the British Empire wasn't just about England don't you?

Many Scots took a full and willing part in it - that includes its extremes and excesses - and many of them did very, very well out of it.

I'm not making excuses for The British Empire etc, some of the things carried out in its name were abhorrent, but take the time to have a look at the excesses of other empires throughout history and some of the one's that were contemporary with The British Empire.
One example is The Spanish Empire who slaughtered, abused and eradicated far, far more people / civilizations than The British Empire.

I really do wonder why so many of the zealot Nats are so bitterly, hatefully anti-English and will go to all extremes to achieve their wish for independence.....even giving up their devolved powers and relatively considerable influence on UK matters for total submission to the autocratic, undemocratic European Union whose openly stated goal is to eliminate the very notions of nationhood and national pride that Scottish Nats so passionately embrace.

Quite bizarre.

a reply to: Freeborn

Many Scots took a full and willing part in it - that includes its extremes and excesses - and many of them did very, very well out of it.

Seriously man, make someone sit in front of BBC propaganda for 24 hours and I'm sure they'll believe every line, I don't think propaganda in the old days was much different, apart from the tech obviously.

I really do wonder why so many of the zealot Nats are so bitterly, hatefully anti-English and will go to all extremes to achieve their wish for independence

I make the decisions I think are best in the current climate, and the people of Scotland have been lied to so many times by those in Westminster that we look foolish, nothing against the English, if anything you could call me anti-British. And what extremes would those be? Voicing an opinion? Yeah, some in this so called 'democracy' don't seem to like that either.