What was our universe before the Big Bang?

a reply to: RAY1990
Can you separate yourself from now?
Now is appearing as whatever is appearing - this picture - this image here now.

“We do not belong to this material world that science constructs for us. We are not in it; we are outside. We are only spectators. The reason why we believe that we are in it, that we belong to the picture, is that our bodies are in the picture. Our bodies belong to it. Not only my own body, but those of my friends, also of my dog and cat and horse, and of all the other people and animals. And this is my only means of communicating with them.”
― Erwin Schrödinger

a reply to: Itisnowagain

The Law of Dependent Origination...

Due to clinging/grasping/Desire in "sentient life" one is bound to it... what is that "it"?

When this is, that is
This arising, that arises
When this is not, that is not
This ceasing, that ceases

That is the ALL

When clinging, grasping, and desire ends and begins? That is the other; that is not self, impermanent and subject to suffer based on the three poisons and five skandhas.

So much suggested here in this "thread of fate or kamma" is false... and yet not. The grasping or clinging? Individual and yet divisible and yet indivisible. The three worlds or three times that bridging the 4th typically fail to see... as duality argues the existent in front of the non existent and mirroring that does the same... creating two worlds or "minds" of duality. In one body... that body is that law or dhamma in which all of that illusion and delusion takes place... and yet where is mind when one has already grasped the immeasurable thought to be measured?

originally posted by: RAY1990
I'll die one day, others will after that day. I won't experience the latter. Just like I didn't experience what was beforehand.

You assume you will die because you have misidentified yourself. But there is no death separate to life - this right here and right now is life/death.

I agree in the oneness aspect though, we are all one... But we are not the same.

'We' are not all one.
There is only this that is - meaning there is no one.

There isn't anyone doing anything.

a reply to: BEBOG

Thank you for that...........not sure what it means though.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: chr0naut

The virtual particles created by quantum fluctuation are far smaller than a camera or even an electron microscope could capture.

Here's more on what is called Casimir effect - Wikipedia that explains what I am talking about.

Yes , thanks for that..........it is a little bit over my head.
What I am trying to say is that they have found that something does appear out of nothing.

Yes it does appear to arise from nothingness, but it returns to nothingness, too. This means that overall nothing comes from nothing but you can get something if there are some fairly extreme force gradients (eg, Hawking radiation - Wikipedia).

Watch where thought appears..................there is nothing, thought arises and then subsides back to nothing.
Nothing is what there is.
Emptiness is forming.

Yes but you are equating dissimilarities.

Does a flash drive get heavier because you store data on it?

In the same way, emptiness is the absence of form. It even lacks the media upon which to imprint metadata. Emptiness and nothingness can exist without being something material.

You can't equate true emptiness and nothingness with form, either abstract or material, because there is noting there to carry the information or to physically exist.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: RAY1990

I'll die one day, others will after that day. I won't experience the latter. Just like I didn't experience what was beforehand.

You assume you will die because you have misidentified yourself. But there is no death separate to life - this right here and right now is life/death.

I agree in the oneness aspect though, we are all one... But we are not the same.

'We' are not all one.
There is only this that is - meaning there is no one.

There isn't anyone doing anything.

I bet if you nicked something from him, he'd take you to court!

He couldn't do that or even ideate that he doesn't exist, if he didn't.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: chr0naut

The virtual particles created by quantum fluctuation are far smaller than a camera or even an electron microscope could capture.

Here's more on what is called Casimir effect - Wikipedia that explains what I am talking about.

Yes , thanks for that..........it is a little bit over my head.
What I am trying to say is that they have found that something does appear out of nothing.

Yes it does appear to arise from nothingness, but it returns to nothingness, too. This means that overall nothing comes from nothing but you can get something if there are some fairly extreme force gradients (eg, Hawking radiation - Wikipedia).

Watch where thought appears..................there is nothing, thought arises and then subsides back to nothing.
Nothing is what there is.
Emptiness is forming.

Yes but you are equating dissimilarities.

Does a flash drive get heavier because you store data on it?

In the same way, emptiness is the absence of form. It even lacks the media upon which to imprint metadata. Emptiness and nothingness can exist without being something material.

You can't equate true emptiness and nothingness with form, either abstract or material, because there is noting there to carry the information or to physically exist.

Look directly, forget what you have learned about 'things'.

Nothing is physically existing - the current configuration is disappearing constantly.
Where is the dream you had last night?

Nothingness .......is no thing ness.

There is nothing because what there is is not made of two things............it is simply this that is.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: RAY1990

I'll die one day, others will after that day. I won't experience the latter. Just like I didn't experience what was beforehand.

You assume you will die because you have misidentified yourself. But there is no death separate to life - this right here and right now is life/death.

I agree in the oneness aspect though, we are all one... But we are not the same.

'We' are not all one.
There is only this that is - meaning there is no one.

There isn't anyone doing anything.

I bet if you nicked something from him, he'd take you to court!

He couldn't do that or even ideate that he doesn't exist, if he didn't.

Yeah...you didn't listen to it did you??
Listen to the 2 minute talk and then comment.........you may have to listen several times to fully get it though. It is excellent at blowing the mind.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: chr0naut

The virtual particles created by quantum fluctuation are far smaller than a camera or even an electron microscope could capture.

Here's more on what is called Casimir effect - Wikipedia that explains what I am talking about.

Yes , thanks for that..........it is a little bit over my head.
What I am trying to say is that they have found that something does appear out of nothing.

Yes it does appear to arise from nothingness, but it returns to nothingness, too. This means that overall nothing comes from nothing but you can get something if there are some fairly extreme force gradients (eg, Hawking radiation - Wikipedia).

Watch where thought appears..................there is nothing, thought arises and then subsides back to nothing.
Nothing is what there is.
Emptiness is forming.

Yes but you are equating dissimilarities.

Does a flash drive get heavier because you store data on it?

In the same way, emptiness is the absence of form. It even lacks the media upon which to imprint metadata. Emptiness and nothingness can exist without being something material.

You can't equate true emptiness and nothingness with form, either abstract or material, because there is noting there to carry the information or to physically exist.

Yes but all of that is based on what science says...............
Look directly, forget what you have learned about 'things'.

Nothing is physically existing - the current configuration is disappearing constantly.
Where is the dream you had last night?

Nothingness .......is no thing ness.

There is nothing because what there is is not made of two things............it is simply this that is.

I quite clearly remember that dream I had last night. The memory is imprinted upon my neurochemistry and if required will become integrated into neural structure - an effect of memory called neuroplasticity.

Our every experience is tied into physics of space-time.

Were we able to stand overlooking the entire temporal dimension (in the same way Hawking talks about imaginary time as an extra temporal dimension), we'd see all events statically preserved along the temporal axis, where they'd exist, unchanging, forever.

From within our constrained temporal view, our experiences were the effects of previous causes and they in turn are causes of more causes until the end of time, which itself must have cause in time.

With nothingness, none of that can happen.

originally posted by: chr0naut
I quite clearly remember that dream I had last night.

When/where is that 'memory' appearing?

Have you seen the film 'The Island' where the clones have their memories implanted? They believe they had a childhood. Same as the film 'Moon'.

Nothing can appear outside the present - because the seeing/knowing space is always present .....it is not in time. Time is a concept arising presently.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Presumably through clinical death, as in no more electrical impulses in the brain, decaying of the body.

Everything else is spiritual woo woo, nobody has came back and told me anything so I can't attest for anything but the here and now.

I understand what you're saying, I don't subscribe to such views. Such information, true or false, won't set me free. It wouldn't if I was sitting in a cell doing 25-life and really wanted to believe.

Science created nothing. Science is a concept, a system. A school of thought manifested through measurement and experiment.

originally posted by: RAY1990
a reply to: Itisnowagain

Presumably through clinical death, as in no more electrical impulses in the brain, decaying of the body.

Everything else is spiritual woo woo, nobody has came back and told me anything so I can't attest for anything but the here and now.

I understand what you're saying, I don't subscribe to such views. Such information, true or false, won't set me free. It wouldn't if I was sitting in a cell doing 25-life and really wanted to believe.

Science created nothing. Science is a concept, a system. A school of thought manifested through measurement and experiment.

Man is the measure of all things.

The only way to set yourself free is to wake up to the dream. All that appears is dreamstuff.
And you are such stuff that dreams are made on.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: RAY1990

I'll die one day, others will after that day. I won't experience the latter. Just like I didn't experience what was beforehand.

You assume you will die because you have misidentified yourself. But there is no death separate to life - this right here and right now is life/death.

I agree in the oneness aspect though, we are all one... But we are not the same.

'We' are not all one.
There is only this that is - meaning there is no one.

There isn't anyone doing anything.

I bet if you nicked something from him, he'd take you to court!

He couldn't do that or even ideate that he doesn't exist, if he didn't.

Yeah...you didn't listen to it did you??
Listen to the 2 minute talk and then comment.........you may have to listen several times to fully get it though.

I did listen to it. Telling someone they shouldn't use normal grammar isn't profound.

The first guy has noticed that his consciousness has multiple simultaneous instances. As an observation, it is fairly interesting and clearly suggestive of our massively parallel mode of normal thought.

But the old dude doesn't even appear to have enough mental capability to figure that out and is suggesting that the other guy shouldn't even talk about it because he is using the wrong language. He actually suggests that the guy should "let go" all nouns, pronouns, verbs and adjectives. Wouldn't it be easier just to tell him to shut up?

It is excellent at blowing the mind.

What mind is there to 'blow'? Surely all is nothing and nothing is all.

originally posted by: RAY1990
a reply to: Itisnowagain

Presumably through clinical death, as in no more electrical impulses in the brain, decaying of the body.

The brain is simply an appearance in the dream.
What is appearing as experience in deep sleep is the backdrop to the appearing dream (this appearance right here now).

How will 'death' be any different from deep sleep? In deep sleep there is nothing and then when the light comes on (waking/dreaming) an entire image of light appears with what seems to be separate things in it.

originally posted by: chr0naut

I did listen to it. Telling someone they shouldn't use normal grammar isn't profound.

The first guy has noticed that his consciousness has multiple simultaneous instances. As an observation, it is fairly interesting and clearly suggestive of our massively parallel mode of normal thought.

But the old dude doesn't even appear to have enough mental capability to figure that out and is suggesting that the other guy shouldn't even talk about it because he is using the wrong language. He actually suggests that the guy should "let go" all nouns, pronouns, verbs and adjectives. Wouldn't it be easier just to tell him to shut up?

It is excellent at blowing the mind.

What mind is there to 'blow'? Surely all is nothing and nothing is all.

The mind is simply 'wording' - those words are believed to be naming actual things but they are not - they make things up that are not.
In the beginning was the word..................it was the beginning of 'things' - but there are no things .....words just make believe there are.

Look and listen, see and hear........concepts make believe there are all sorts of things that aren't.

WORDS / IDEAS

We are word and idea junkies; we are addicted to semantic systems.

This means that we use words/ideas with an unchallenged confidence that they bear a somewhat accurate correspondence to the actual state of things, Reality.

Within a limited context this may be somewhat true. We can record information, instructions, recipes, etc. in words, and another human will be able to use those words to approximate the "real-world" conditions we intended to refer to. This semantic functionality has apparently given our species a large evolutionary advantage.

BUT... for "spirituality", inquiry into Reality, into our true condition, words/ideas are worse than useless. They are potentially our biggest impediment.

This is because we may tend to assume that the objects/actions which words refer to, ACTUALLY EXIST IN THE WAY THE WORDS THAT REFER TO THEM SEEM TO DEFINE THEM. That is, we may tend to view our experience as being actually made up of the objects and actions that the words we are using to describe it imply.

This is a fundamental mistake, due to the fact that ALL experience is in actuality an infinite, constantly changing, non-repeating, indefinable (in any final way), unpatterned field of miraculously appearing Radiantly Present "energies" existing nowhere else than IN experience, perceived by unknowable, miraculously appearing "consciousness". But our use of words implies that objects and actions may actually exist in the way we refer to them, as knowable, definable objectively existing "beings", "things" and "situations".

This is actually NOT the case.

theopendoorway.org...

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: chr0naut
I quite clearly remember that dream I had last night.

When/where is that 'memory' appearing?

The dream appeared while I was in bed, in the early hours of the morning. I awoke with a recollection of dreaming the dream and commented on the weird nature of the dream to my wife, who had awoken before I did.

Have you seen the film 'The Island' where the clones have their memories implanted? They believe they had a childhood. Same as the film 'Moon'.

The implanted memories had to come from somewhere. In the fictions of both 'Moon' and 'The Island', the implanted memories were copied from someone else's life and edited.

Nothing can appear outside the present - because the seeing/knowing space is always present .....it is not in time. Time is a concept arising presently.

Time is a physical and a measurable thing.

The concept of time is conceptual.

originally posted by: chr0naut
Time is a physical and a measurable thing.

You are here now.......... where are you going to go to to measure time?
Can you remove yourself from now and travel into the past/future and get a tape measure and hold it in the past and travel to now and take the reading?

Can anyone/anything escape this present experience? Try it now.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: chr0naut

I did listen to it. Telling someone they shouldn't use normal grammar isn't profound.

The first guy has noticed that his consciousness has multiple simultaneous instances. As an observation, it is fairly interesting and clearly suggestive of our massively parallel mode of normal thought.

But the old dude doesn't even appear to have enough mental capability to figure that out and is suggesting that the other guy shouldn't even talk about it because he is using the wrong language. He actually suggests that the guy should "let go" all nouns, pronouns, verbs and adjectives. Wouldn't it be easier just to tell him to shut up?

It is excellent at blowing the mind.

What mind is there to 'blow'? Surely all is nothing and nothing is all.

The mind is simply 'wording' - those words are believed to be naming actual things but they are not - they make things up that are not.
In the beginning was the word..................it was the beginning of 'things' - but there are no things .....words just make believe there are.

Look and listen, see and hear........concepts make believe there are all sorts of things that aren't.

Words and ideas are different than actual things.

Think about this: If someone said to you, "I have chopped your arms off with this samurai sword", it is different than if they chopped your arms off with a samurai sword.

There is the conceptual and the real.

No amount of 'woo woo' changes that one iota.

WORDS / IDEAS

We are word and idea junkies; we are addicted to semantic systems.

This means that we use words/ideas with an unchallenged confidence that they bear a somewhat accurate correspondence to the actual state of things, Reality.

Within a limited context this may be somewhat true. We can record information, instructions, recipes, etc. in words, and another human will be able to use those words to approximate the "real-world" conditions we intended to refer to. This semantic functionality has apparently given our species a large evolutionary advantage.

BUT... for "spirituality", inquiry into Reality, into our true condition, words/ideas are worse than useless. They are potentially our biggest impediment.

This is because we may tend to assume that the objects/actions which words refer to, ACTUALLY EXIST IN THE WAY THE WORDS THAT REFER TO THEM SEEM TO DEFINE THEM. That is, we may tend to view our experience as being actually made up of the objects and actions that the words we are using to describe it imply.

This is a fundamental mistake, due to the fact that ALL experience is in actuality an infinite, constantly changing, non-repeating, indefinable (in any final way), unpatterned field of miraculously appearing Radiantly Present "energies" existing nowhere else than IN experience, perceived by unknowable, miraculously appearing "consciousness". But our use of words implies that objects and actions may actually exist in the way we refer to them, as knowable, definable objectively existing "beings", "things" and "situations".

This is actually NOT the case.

theopendoorway.org...

The open wallet, more like (but I quite like some of their animated gif's).

originally posted by: chr0naut

The open wallet, more like (but I quite like some of their animated gif's).

What do you mean by 'open wallet'?

originally posted by: chr0naut

There is the conceptual and the real.

Only now is real!!
And now is constantly appearing different. Now can appear as words telling stories about what is not real.

Now is arising as seeing and hearing .......it is non conceptual............and all concepts arise and side here/now.