I left my crap in San Francisco

originally posted by: anonentity


Those would be DEA figures, massaged like every other figure.

I'm not going to debate what's what, but the vast majority of Afghanistan dope does go to EU side of the world.

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: schuyler


In New Zealand forty years ago, a person could get off the boat broke, get a job in the freezing works, book into the single mens accommodation on site, just a small hut. Work for six months and have enough to buy a Holden, and put a deposit down on a house. One person was on the unemployment benefit in Auckland in 1970.
If you decided that the Freezing works wasn't for you, you could get a job at any Hospital and do the same, same with Hotels , this mopped up the pressure on housing. I swear I don't recognize this world anymore. I think the rot started with Thatcher and Ragan, its definitely political.

Back in the 1970's, the maximum mortgage you could take out was 2.5 times the man's salary. But the woman could contribute to the mortgage deposit. In my home city, the university graduates could afford a first-time flat then save up and move to a house. Getting a council house required that you were a married family and had jobs.

All that changed; means testing meant that whoever was in the worst financial situation got the council house and the chance to breed. Oil workers were paid twice as much as graduates and priced everyone else out of their homes. The only way the government could fix this at the time was to raise the limit on mortgages so that the young couples at the time could afford to get onto the property market. Property speculators then started converting family homes into luxury flats. That then created a new problem in that there weren't enough homes for those couples who then wanted to start families. So they had to move out of the city. Now there's a shortage of teachers and nurses because they can't afford to live locally and can't afford to commute.

a reply to: TinfoilTP

It pains me to say this, but that was the case in S.F. long before Pelosi and long before Twitter HQ was even a glimmer in Google's eye.

a reply to: stormcell


When the average person cant get food and shelter which is a basic human necessity, (not a right) and the rich have more money than they know what to do with. Then any reasonable person has to accept that a severe economic imbalance has occurred. All the legislation is making the situation worse, at some stage something will occur to pull it back into balance. What's happening on the streets of San Fran. Is the social chaos caused by a failed system.

originally posted by: Bigburgh
This is an old article:
www.businessinsider.com...

This is from my Realtor App just now..

1.4million???
Seems if you make less than $120K per year in San Francisco, you are below the poverty level.

No wonder the homeless are ubiquitous.

^^^^THIS

a reply to: notsure1

In California you have a million media outlets,we are under the microscope,but in truth there are homeless,and in rural southern areas this has been the norm for years,but yes every loser from all over the country come here to be a movie star,then end up with 12 kids and on welfare,and then the border hoppers

Let's see if I understand this correctly. Illegals can
walk hundreds of miles to cross the border and
find work. But the homeless can't bring
themselves to find work, and
organize to pool money and resources.

I was homeless in 1984, so from my experience
the solution starts and ends with the individual.

Every person of adult age, of sane mind and
a healthy body is responsible for their own life.

If you want something bad enough, you'll do
whatever it takes to make it happen.

a reply to: anonentity

and the Spice just keeps flowing from the poppy fields of Afghanistan

This is worrying as the drugs trade is apparently (and definitely according to some of the info I have been given about the CIA buying marijuana from the Mexican drug cartel and using the 101st airborne to shepherd it back over the American border just in case the Mexicans stole it back form the CIA) controlled by the CIA
now all the rhetoric from the white house about arrest warrants and a separate story about raiding the CIA and allegedly arresting 2000 agents as well as blowing up the afghani poppy fields would naturally mean that the supply of heroin should be drastically reduced by now

so obviously there are some serious lies being said somewhere.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Bigburgh
This is an old article:
www.businessinsider.com...

This is from my Realtor App just now..

1.4million???
Seems if you make less than $120K per year in San Francisco, you are below the poverty level.

No wonder the homeless are ubiquitous.

^^^^THIS

A couple of years ago, one of those house porn shows on the Home & Garden Channel showed a tiny little house somewhere in Southern California. One story, probably about the size of a 1-car garage overall.

$500,000.


I think my jaw literally dropped. It was insane. "Half a million bucks for a glorified garden shed?!" I shouted out loud.

originally posted by: EternalShadow
The byproducts of 'sanctuarism'.

It's not the illegals buying the drugs, they can't afford it. It's the professionals who make a few hundred thousand a year.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Bigburgh
This is an old article:
www.businessinsider.com...

This is from my Realtor App just now..

1.4million???
Seems if you make less than $120K per year in San Francisco, you are below the poverty level.

No wonder the homeless are ubiquitous.

^^^^THIS

The insane RE market in SF has absolutely nothing to do with the homeless problem. They are homeless because of drugs and mental problems. That house could cost $75k and there would still be homeless people because they are simply incapable of holding a job or responsibilities of any kind.

originally posted by: Edumakated
The insane RE market in SF has absolutely nothing to do with the homeless problem. They are homeless because of drugs and mental problems.

It has everything to do with the homeless problem. Back in the day, these people--"the lame, the lazy, and the crazy"--would have able to find some rundown dump in the poor side of town, or a room at a downtown flop house. But those are all gone. There is no more cheap housing in many of the affected areas.

originally posted by: Edumakated
San Fran has a lot of homeless because of the weather and general liberal attitudes that encourage it's proliferation.

To be clear, these are not lower paid tech workers who simply can't afford the astronomical cost of living. These are bums suffering from mental and drug problems. Regardless of the booming economy and even if cost of living were cheaper, these bums would still be living on the street.

I hate to say, but the homeless are like pigeons. You start feeding them, they will just congregate and eventually become pests. I live in a very liberal town outside of Chicago. The homeless get on the subway to come here to beg/scam because the village encourages it. Liberals have this notion that the homeless are all just down on their luck. Most of these guys are professional bums. I've literally seen the same homeless guys for like almost a decade.

There are plenty of local social services available so that they have shelter and food. However, they don't take advantage of it because the issue is drug use and mental problems.

The reality is that unless society is willing to violate the rights of the homeless and literally forcibly remove them from the streets and throw them in rehab OR a looney bin, there is absolutely nothing that can really be done to get them off the streets. Raising the minimum wage and affordable housing is not going to help a guy who can't hold a job because he has five different personalities that fight each other. Nor is it going to help some guy addicted to pills and opiates who has not yet hit rock bottom and truly wants to get clean.

Here's the thing about homeless, there's a lot of mental illness. There's also a huge challenge in actually helping the homeless. Long term homeless are extremely distrustful of the system and don't want to be involved in it, even when those outside of that situation see a benefit to the people.

I really don't know what can be done. This may seem like a harsh way to view things, but I think a lot of homeless people are just irrepairably broken. Putting them down wouldn't be humane, leaving them on the streets isn't good, and helping them doesn't work. The longer people remain on the streets, the more they slip away until there's nothing left. And, worst of all the same thing happens to people in poverty.

Without social safety nets that catch people as they're falling, rather than attempting to help people pick up the pieces, and a couple generations to make those policies at preventing homelessness work I just don't see what can be done.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Edumakated
San Fran has a lot of homeless because of the weather and general liberal attitudes that encourage it's proliferation.

To be clear, these are not lower paid tech workers who simply can't afford the astronomical cost of living. These are bums suffering from mental and drug problems. Regardless of the booming economy and even if cost of living were cheaper, these bums would still be living on the street.

I hate to say, but the homeless are like pigeons. You start feeding them, they will just congregate and eventually become pests. I live in a very liberal town outside of Chicago. The homeless get on the subway to come here to beg/scam because the village encourages it. Liberals have this notion that the homeless are all just down on their luck. Most of these guys are professional bums. I've literally seen the same homeless guys for like almost a decade.

There are plenty of local social services available so that they have shelter and food. However, they don't take advantage of it because the issue is drug use and mental problems.

The reality is that unless society is willing to violate the rights of the homeless and literally forcibly remove them from the streets and throw them in rehab OR a looney bin, there is absolutely nothing that can really be done to get them off the streets. Raising the minimum wage and affordable housing is not going to help a guy who can't hold a job because he has five different personalities that fight each other. Nor is it going to help some guy addicted to pills and opiates who has not yet hit rock bottom and truly wants to get clean.

Here's the thing about homeless, there's a lot of mental illness. There's also a huge challenge in actually helping the homeless. Long term homeless are extremely distrustful of the system and don't want to be involved in it, even when those outside of that situation see a benefit to the people.

I really don't know what can be done. This may seem like a harsh way to view things, but I think a lot of homeless people are just irrepairably broken. Putting them down wouldn't be humane, leaving them on the streets isn't good, and helping them doesn't work. The longer people remain on the streets, the more they slip away until there's nothing left. And, worst of all the same thing happens to people in poverty.

Without social safety nets that catch people as they're falling, rather than attempting to help people pick up the pieces, and a couple generations to make those policies at preventing homelessness work I just don't see what can be done.

Nothing can be done. This is why I said the only way to fix the problem is to basically forcibly remove them from the streets.

I've seen plenty of homeless who clearly are a small fry short of a Happy Meal. No amount of shelters, food, or any other services is going to help these people. All you can is scoop them up and put them in a looney hospital. They are completely incapable of functioning in society.

You have the same issue with the drug addicts. You literally have to just round them up in a paddy wagon and throw them in jail / rehab until the can get through withdrawal and kick the habit.

originally posted by: starviego

originally posted by: Edumakated
The insane RE market in SF has absolutely nothing to do with the homeless problem. They are homeless because of drugs and mental problems.

It has everything to do with the homeless problem. Back in the day, these people--"the lame, the lazy, and the crazy"--would have able to find some rundown dump in the poor side of town, or a room at a downtown flop house. But those are all gone. There is no more cheap housing in many of the affected areas.

A lot of homeless people actually do have jobs. But, particularly in places like San Francisco, there is no affordable housing to be found. Many homeless with jobs live in their car, and keep it parked nearby. I've heard that a common practice is to shower at self-serve car-washes (the kind where you drop in some quarters and hose the car off yourself).

originally posted by: starviego

originally posted by: Edumakated
The insane RE market in SF has absolutely nothing to do with the homeless problem. They are homeless because of drugs and mental problems.

It has everything to do with the homeless problem. Back in the day, these people--"the lame, the lazy, and the crazy"--would have able to find some rundown dump in the poor side of town, or a room at a downtown flop house. But those are all gone. There is no more cheap housing in many of the affected areas.

There have always been a bunch of homeless... even back in the day. If what you said were true, then there wouldn't have been homeless in the 70s or other decades when real estate as not so expensive.

The fact young professionals are paying $1.5 million for a 2 bed / 2 bath dorm room in SF has zilch to do with why a cracked out meth head is living in a tent.

a reply to: Isurrender73

and the Spice just keeps flowing from the poppy fields of Afghanistan

You must have missed the above from the OP.

You cant keep stealing from the taxpayer to get people off the streets through social programmes.

The taxpayer coffers are already empty from feeding the MIC/war machine.

Stop the drugs getting in to begin with.

originally posted by: Edumakated
Nothing can be done. This is why I said the only way to fix the problem is to basically forcibly remove them from the streets.

I've seen plenty of homeless who clearly are a small fry short of a Happy Meal. No amount of shelters, food, or any other services is going to help these people. All you can is scoop them up and put them in a looney hospital. They are completely incapable of functioning in society.

You have the same issue with the drug addicts. You literally have to just round them up in a paddy wagon and throw them in jail / rehab until the can get through withdrawal and kick the habit.

I'm really hesitant to call for rounding people up off the streets based on claims of mental illness. But, at the same time I don't think there's any fixing many of the homeless people. It's permanent damage, and given the opportunity for jobs and housing these people are never going to reintegrate into society.

Most homeless aren't violent or criminals but they're also incapable of day to day living. They don't want to be part of the system or society, and if those are their wishes I think the only ethical solution is to respect that. Aside from the means to build a compound how different is someone who decides to live off the grid and a homeless person? They've both got the same mentality and we should take that into account when trying to find a solution.

Putting them in proper hospitals could at least make them a little more comfortable, but then we have to commit as a society to funding those hospitals and the more freedom they have in a hospital, the worse an environment it's going to become, as they're incapable of looking after themselves.

I really think the only solution is to prevent homelessness in the first place and help people while they're still all there mentally.

United States in general has a big homeless problem. I'm from Australia and we too have homelessness, but its mainly contained to the mentally ill. I traveled around the US in 2012 and was to be honest, quite shocked at the amount of homeless, and most shocking to me was how many families were homeless living in tent cities. In Australia, a family with children that found itself homeless would be provided with housing by the state for reasons of child welfare. There is no such thing as tent cities in Australia. Apparently in Sweden, there are very few homeless because shelter is classed as a basic human right. If you are without a home, you will be provided with one. Most homeless there are homeless by choice. To a lesser extent, its the same in Australia.

originally posted by: Edumakated
There have always been a bunch of homeless... even back in the day. If what you said were true, then there wouldn't have been homeless in the 70s or other decades when real estate as not so expensive.

I was alive in '75, and I can personally attest the homeless problem per se didn't get going until Reagan's reign in the 1980s. Yeah, we had a few homeless back in the 'day.' If you went to a big city, to a place called "skid row," you could roam the back alleys and find someone sleeping off a drunk. But even then, there was plenty of room at the Rescue Mission.