Why BLM keeps losing... Antwon Rose

a reply to: blueman12

From my experience in the legal field (which is over a decade of my professional life), it's rather rare when law enforcement is not held accountable when it comes to the letter of the law, and it seems to be getting less and less.

Yes, sometimes the court of public opinion is wrong in its assumption of guilt, innocence, or justifiable nature of an action when compared to the letter of the law, but it's not unheard of for courts to be wrong, too.

More often than not, though, it's the former, not the latter.

a reply to: Edumakated

I understand the resisting arrest with Garner--my point is that the law that entitled officers to approach him was unjust to begin with. I'm not excusing Garner's personal responsibility in how he responded--I never said that at all, ever, discussing that case. In fact, in the initial posts about that case, I probably noted that his own actions are what caused the officers to respond how they did.

As for the Walter Scott case, I'll just have to admit that I don't know the details inside and out, but again, fighting an officer and then fleeing may or may not result in a justified shooting by the officer, depending on the state. I mean, the fact that the officer (Michael Slager) was sentenced to 20 years in prison for shooting him ought to tell you something. Hell, Mr. Slager plead guilty concerning the shooting. And don't forget that Mr. Slager decided it appropriate to place the taser near Mr. Scott's dying body--I would contend that was so that he could claim that he was armed.

Like I generally always say, personal responsibility absolutely does play a role, but I never lose site of the total picture about what happened.

Unjust laws and what amounts to evidence planting and a guilty plea generally make me feel a bit of sympathy for the victims. Whether or not you do is irrelevant to my opinion.

originally posted by: odzeandennz
a reply to: Edumakated

you can't justify wrong doing because the victims weren't model citizens.

we don't live in a 'mad max' style society yet.....

I'm not going to go to the mat and cause widespread civil unrest over a thug. I'm just not. Most people aren't. BLM can't figure that out. They think it's because their poster children are all black, but that's not it. It's because most of them were engaged in criminal misconduct when their incidents happen.

For most law-abiding people, that is the risk you take when you decide to engage in unlawful behavior. You take the risk that angry cops are going to have their guns out, and if you continue to defy law enforcement, bad things will happen.

No. That doesn't excuse misconduct on the part of law enforcement, but at the same time, two wrongs also don't make a right. So when one person (the so-called victim) was engaged in law-breaking to begin with, there isn't a lot of sympathy.

This is the same thing with young women who go out, get hammered and then can't understand why they got raped. No one excuses the rapist, but the young woman put herself in harm's way. It's not like she was safe at home, completely sober, and the rapist perpetrated a home invasion and raped her. She was out engaging in risky behavior that caught up with her.

Shouldn't have been raped, but she also took the risks and they caught up with her.

Maybe Antwon shouldn't have been shot, but he also shouldn't have been in that position in the first place. He took the risks and they caught up with him.

Those victims are less sympathetic.

BLM exists to keep the issue of race in the political forefront. Their name should be Black Lives Matter if it Furthers Our Agenda. A perfect example is Antwon Rose. All we are hearing about is Antwon being shot by a police officer. How about the other guy that was shot? Nothing but a minor mention in the news. Black on Black killings in the big cities? (Crickets chirp)

I don't know nothing about no thugs. Never been to India. But I don't shed any tears for gangbangers, members of street gangs who commit crime for a living, when they kill each other or when they get killed while committing crimes. I have zero sympathy. It is the life they chose. There used to be a saying about things like this. If you live by the sword, you will die by the sword. Wasted life and wasted potential, is a horrible thing. But people make choices and then they have to live by them.

Having said that, I also treat these type of situations on an individual basis. Just because someone had a misdemeanor one time when they were a teenager, or they dress a certain way, or like a certain type of music, or have gotten into a few fights at a few bars, or have at some point used drugs, does not make someone a "thug" who no longer deserves to live.

That is just an easy way to lump everyone you find undesirable into a broad category, so you can dehumanize them and not feel guilty about it. But it is also stupid to try to act like gangs don't exist and that the police are out there twirling their evil villain mustaches while making up all the gang crime statistics. Who kills more kids every day in this country. The cops or the gangbangers. Just look at Chicago. Which I still maintain is a safe city in general. But there is no denying that certain neighborhoods on the West and South side have gang problems. On Monday, 21 people were shot. You have communities being terrorized by these brutal monsters. But I am supposed to shed a tear when they get killed while committing a crime?

I'm not saying the increasingly militarized police are not an issue. It is an issue. Every innocent person that gets killed by the police or even just harassed by the police. Is an absolute tragedy. But not everyone is innocent. Not every police involved shooting is unjustifiable under the law and the circumstance in which they took place. And that is the narrative being pushed right now. That all these criminals with rap sheets that are longer than a Harry Potter book, who are in the process of committing crime and resisting arrest, somehow retroactively become innocent little angels the moment they die. I mean Antwon Rose was in a car that was involved in a drive-by shooting. But I am sure that it was just an accident and a misunderstanding.

The people crying over Antwon Rose. What if the drive-by had been successful and they killed who they were trying to kill. Would you be crying tears over that young black child. Or would you not even of known about it because you only pay attention to the situation when it is a police shooting and lump the rest as just another day in the inner city.

Is ending the problem your main goal, or is it virtue signalling. If you want to build a movement that will actually solve the problem it needs to have broad support across both political sides. So maybe just pick your battles better. There are cases of indisputable police corruption and wrong doing out there. Save the protests for those cases. Don't make a fuss over someone getting killed while in the process of committing a drive-by. Most American don't care when someone dies right after they were involved in committing a drive-by shooting. Of course if your only goal is stars on here, Facebook likes, and Twitter re-tweets, then carry on. But don't be mad when a huge chunk of the country just does not care and starts to tune you out.

To sum it all up. It is dumb to protest every single police involved shooting no matter the circumstances. But it is also dumb to stick your head in the sand and think there are no problems about the way the police conduct themselves these days. Its also dumb to lump everyone into a "thug" category or an "innocent angel" category. Every case should be judged on an individual basis. Its okay to not shed a tear, your still human, but if you get off on hearing about this kind of stuff and actively hope for it to happen, then you have a problem.

Oh and the gangbangers are the ones shooting at you while throwing up gang signs and saying things like. Who you be. What you is. You will know them by their multiple felonies and a good indicator is whether or not they have been involved in a drive-by shooting. They also might have things like six point stars, five point stars, crowns, or gasp even the number 13, tatooed on their chest and/or face.

So again, over this particular case, no tears but no happy dances either.

originally posted by: odzeandennz
a reply to: Edumakated

you can't justify wrong doing because the victims weren't model citizens.

we don't live in a 'mad max' style society yet.....

Yet... that's exactly what a lot of people do. That's the point of the post. If you're fighting a war, you need to fight the enemy in front of you, not the enemy that you wish you had.

Wars are won by picking your battles carefully. Parks was a perfect - and very relevant - example of that.

originally posted by: underwerks
a reply to: Edumakated
There aren’t shootings like this where black doctors live because those areas are policed differently than lower income areas.

Is that really the reason?

a reply to: underwerks

There aren’t shootings like this where black doctors live because those areas are policed differently than lower income areas. Which is the same reason for the disproportionate amount of black people locked up for drug offenses.

If police are just out to murder black men, then it shouldn't matter where they live or what they do should it?

Black doctor or black thug escaping an attempted drive by in the hood, they're both black men and the police should be just as willing to murder them in cold blood ... right? Right?

That is the argument we are being asked to believe by groups like BLM. It's all about race and nothing else.

Agreed. Making these folks the face of their message is a losing strategy. It harms those with legitimate claims and grievances.

I'll start being really concerned about racist motivations when the number of officer involved shootings start approaching even a fraction of gang related shootings (like the shooting Antwon Rose carried out prior to his death)

a reply to: okrian

Funny you don't see Asian-Americans blaming white people for everything wrong with their community and burning down their own neighborhoods.

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: okrian

Funny you don't see Asian-Americans blaming white people for everything wrong with their community and burning down their own neighborhoods.

Well, they are finally filing a lawsuit against Harvard for admissions discrimination. So there is that.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: DanDanDat
You are probably right about why BLM is not gaining as much support as they might like.

But I dont think they can/need to do as you suggest and find better examples of the injustice

The problem will not be solved until even thugs and expect to get due procces by the law. So finding different examples only gets you half the way.

In the 60s it was a totally different situation; back than it was important to get white people to recognize there was a problem in the first place, they where completely in the dark. Image was everything and the civil rights leaders at the time where smart enough to know that.

Today most people can't claim ignorance to the issues. Now it's a matter of holding leadership accountable and that's true if where talking about a doctor or a thug.

This is why no one cares. Most people just figure the victim got what they had coming, whether legally right or wrong. Deep down, people don't care because they see it as a matter of one less thug. They view the technicalities of how they got shot by police as a less important issue.

I agree that BLM places their bets on some people that really don't get sympathy.

Philando Castile and and to a lesser extent Walter Scott were the two best cases for BLM to rally around, yet to my eyes, BLM didn't really invest much in those cases. That's always puzzled me, when you have clear cut cases of injustice and poor actions by the Police like those two cases.

Most of the other cases are what I consider self inflicted wounds. Like you pointed out, if they hadn't made poor decisions, there wouldn't have been those deaths. Doesn't excuse their deaths but at least there was a rationale for the actions by LEO's. If they didn't do bad things, they wouldn't have been in the spot the were.

a reply to: Edumakated

You make a good point. DO the police ever shoot any old grannies or nuns or Anyone who's just a normal citizen? Or is it just gangbangers and drug dealers and people who look up to, act like, dress like and talk like drug dealers and gangbangers?

I guess not or they would have rallied around these people already...

So basically...cops are Just, normal people... when they are forced to deal with a guy who is talking and acting like they just got out of prison, they begin to fear for their safety and that of others who may come across this individual? Wow, who knew?

Gee, maybe people shouldn't act, talk, dress, and look up to criminals, cause you could be mistaken for one, and when you jump out of a car that was just involved in a drive by and start running, the cops might think you were the one with the gun.

But, simply complying with what you know to be right and waiting in the car with your hands up is Just Too Hard for some people to comprehend. They literarally think they are in a videogame or a movie and they are going to make it home safely from Every wild adventure they go on. When cops arrive, you just run. That's just what you do. Complying never entered his mind. I wonder, how many lives was he willing to endanger, in order to escape? I assume he didn't wait for a crosswalk when he ran. I'm just glad he didn't escape around a corner and come across My Loved Ones getting into or out of a car or blocking his escape by standing in the wrong place at the wrong time.

That's why a lot of times cops have to give up on a chase when they could have Easily caught the guy, because police chases cause injuries and deaths of innocent people sometimes, but all the bad guy cares about is getting away so he can go celebrate and smoke a blunt with his homies.. your families life is no where on his list of concerns.

I don't think he Deserved to die, but I think he took actions and made decisions that led to his death, and nobody else. Kind of like an accident. He accidentally committed suicide by misadventure. Just like a 5 year old at a zoo, poking a lion with a stick doesn't necessarily Deserve to die. But its not the lions fault either. The lion is just doing what lions do. The cop was just doing what cops do... fighting against the terroristic gang threat on our streets. Those cops, and other rough men, violent men, are the Only thing keeping these animals from completely taking over! A willingness to commit violence must be met with more than a hug and softie lecture.


The last thing anyone should do is cry or feel sad for him. For his family, sure, maybe. But just like a soldier, or a cop, a thug knows exactly what they are getting into. They listen to it a hundred times or more a day in their music. Getting shot to death is almost like martyrdom to these people. The people he loves and respects the most in this world, his homies, will be smoking blunts and drinking liquor while they speak his name, for years to come, AND they will use his death as an excuse for More Hatred and Violence.

That's mad respect when a cop shoots you. That's like, someone from the real world cared about you enough to stop you on that destructive path you were on. People will say "man, the way that cop was so determined to discipline Antwon, it was almost like, for a moment, Antwon had a father in his life... lucky bastard!"

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: odzeandennz
a reply to: Edumakated

you can't justify wrong doing because the victims weren't model citizens.

we don't live in a 'mad max' style society yet.....

I'm not going to go to the mat and cause widespread civil unrest over a thug. I'm just not. Most people aren't. BLM can't figure that out. They think it's because their poster children are all black, but that's not it. It's because most of them were engaged in criminal misconduct when their incidents happen.

For most law-abiding people, that is the risk you take when you decide to engage in unlawful behavior. You take the risk that angry cops are going to have their guns out, and if you continue to defy law enforcement, bad things will happen.

No. That doesn't excuse misconduct on the part of law enforcement, but at the same time, two wrongs also don't make a right. So when one person (the so-called victim) was engaged in law-breaking to begin with, there isn't a lot of sympathy.

This is the same thing with young women who go out, get hammered and then can't understand why they got raped. No one excuses the rapist, but the young woman put herself in harm's way. It's not like she was safe at home, completely sober, and the rapist perpetrated a home invasion and raped her. She was out engaging in risky behavior that caught up with her.

Shouldn't have been raped, but she also took the risks and they caught up with her.

Maybe Antwon shouldn't have been shot, but he also shouldn't have been in that position in the first place. He took the risks and they caught up with him.

Those victims are less sympathetic.

I think this is a big part of the problem. Criminal Misconduct has become a part of Black Culture through gangster rap. I have witnessed for myself, what appear to be normal, upstanding black citizens, condone and encourage and laugh off criminal behavior with a "boys will be boys" attitude. I've seen old black grandmothers condemn the act of snitching and I believe she would disown her own grandchildren if she found out that they ever snitched on someone. I've seen white people do it too, but they were not normal white people. They talk and act like they are black. I've met normal white criminals too, but many blacks seem to wear it like a badge of pride. Like their criminality which ruins their life and their community is some kind of resistance against the white man.

I'm speaking of youth involved in the gang culture... even dorky white moms and dads on tv are talking street, that's how pervasive is has become. It's so normalized that it's ok to laugh and joke about. Sickening when you think about it. Of course, the lifestyle is appropriate to mock. But many of the jokes are subtle attempts to fit in to a social group, and do not properly condemn the life.

So, these youths...

They despise talking like the white man.
They despise the white mans laws.
They despise the white mans schools.
They despise dressing like the white man.
They despise other blacks who have too many white friends.
They especially despise all the white mans law enforcement officials.

I think what is going on here is systematic racism. The thing that only white people are supposed to be capable of... it seems the blacks have somehow absorbed our evil ways, by osmosis, from being around us for so long... fascinating!

Funny how we have heard nothing about the man who was shot initially. There were protests and vigils held through out the weekend for Antoine. In the mean time there were more shootings including an 18 year old black man who was killed, but nobody seems to care.