The Pope on Homosexuality

originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: DpatC

NO, his being gay is a mental disease caused by the church abusing him. Conduct a study and find out how many gays WEREN'T abused and get back to me....

I've done my own and every single gay I interviewed had been abused. It is a coping mechanism to deal with the wrongness of it. They need to normalize it in their minds so they end up becoming gay to adjust and normalize the wrong behavior that they were forced into.

Yes, I do have a psychology degree and no, it is not a published study; it was simply for my own edification.

Jaden

Oh, this is juicy.
I'll tell you whats a mental disease, misunderstanding text in a bible and also actually believing that bible is absolute truth with no possible room for error, or even one better, believing there is a study that shows that the majority of gay people were abused and thats why they are gay. Now that's a mental disease.
Please reply to this I'd love to talk psychology.

Soulece

Pope is a chomosexual does his opinion matter?

originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: DpatC

NO, his being gay is a mental disease caused by the church abusing him. Conduct a study and find out how many gays WEREN'T abused and get back to me....

I've done my own and every single gay I interviewed had been abused. It is a coping mechanism to deal with the wrongness of it. They need to normalize it in their minds so they end up becoming gay to adjust and normalize the wrong behavior that they were forced into.

Yes, I do have a psychology degree and no, it is not a published study; it was simply for my own edification.

Jaden

What a complete load of Rubbish! I know plenty of gay people, including my brother. This is you trying to justify someone being gay, that's all!

Yes, gay people have been abused, but so have many straight people!

Seriously! Humans can be so annoying!

GOD and the church forgives when they're caught out and brought to light, otherwise it's business as usual

a reply to: redletter

Your argument breaks down when the same GOD allows newborns with genetic defects.

originally posted by: redletter

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Joecanada11
a reply to: visitedbythem

Scripture is also clear about boiling goats in milk. Scripture has been clear on what to eat and Christians don't follow that. Scripture is wrong about a lot of things too. Probably wrong about this one.

You do realise the boiling goats in milk is a Jewish law, it has nothing to do with Christianity

You are both misquoting the Mosaic law. It was given as God's norm concerning a mother and its child. Even among the animals he detested the thought and thus forbid it, that someone should boil a goat in its own mother's milk:

“You must not boil a young goat in its mother’s milk." Exodus 23:19.

God created the mother with milk to nourish the young kid. It would be contrary to nature to thus boil it in its own mother's milk. If anyone is mistaken about that fact, the law stipulating it, teaches us that lesson.

Before I proceed I would like to state that I have never boiled a goat in milk nor am I advocating it.

It is not really a Jewish law, it is an Israeli law before Judaism was founded. The Jews were only 1 tribe in Israel. The human body has not changed. If you believe the dietary laws have ever been valid, then they are still valid now. I don't follow them but still, if the Bible is true, you probably should.

The Jews extrapolate this into a general prohibition against mixing meat and dairy. No cheeseburgers. Don't even store them together. Maybe use different utensils to prepare them. Who knows? The Bible tells us plenty of things that don't seem to make sense. We do them because God tells us to.

The current Pope has done several things that go against 2000 years of tradition. Times change. The bible has never condoned child sacrifice. Slavery used to be more acceptable than today. The church has never condoned homosexuality as the ideal. They don't encourage it. How can you reach people if you condemn them? Jesus hung out with sinners. Not to promote sin, to try to comfort and heal them. And help them to a better life.

originally posted by: toms54
The church has never condoned homosexuality as the ideal. They don't encourage it. How can you reach people if you condemn them? Jesus hung out with sinners. Not to promote sin, to try to comfort and heal them. And help them to a better life.

I think that is precisely what Pope Francis trying to do. He's trying to reach out the guy.

originally posted by: EasternShadow

originally posted by: toms54
The church has never condoned homosexuality as the ideal. They don't encourage it. How can you reach people if you condemn them? Jesus hung out with sinners. Not to promote sin, to try to comfort and heal them. And help them to a better life.

I think that is precisely what Pope Francis trying to do. He's trying to reach out the guy.

Of course, if the act of homosexual relations is no longer a sin, then his own internal priest problems has on out doesn't it?

originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: DpatC

NO, his being gay is a mental disease caused by the church abusing him. Conduct a study and find out how many gays WEREN'T abused and get back to me....

I've done my own and every single gay I interviewed had been abused. It is a coping mechanism to deal with the wrongness of it. They need to normalize it in their minds so they end up becoming gay to adjust and normalize the wrong behavior that they were forced into.

Yes, I do have a psychology degree and no, it is not a published study; it was simply for my own edification.

Jaden

What complete and utter nonsense. The study has been done by several (actual) scientists - all with the same result:

...no specific psycho-social or family dynamic cause for homosexuality has been identified, including histories of childhood sexual abuse. ...

1. - American Psychiatric Association
   
2. - Sexual Orientation, Controversy, and Science
   
3. - Does Sexual Orientation Precede Childhood Sexual Abuse? Childhood Gender Nonconformity as a Risk Factor and Instrumental Variable Analysis
   
4. - Does Maltreatment in Childhood Affect Sexual Orientation in Adulthood?
   
5. - A Meta-Analysis of Disparities in Childhood Sexual Abuse, Parental Physical Abuse, and Peer Victimization Among Sexual Minority and Sexual Nonminority Individuals
   

To name but a few out of countless studies and journals.
And if you bother to read any of that you'll find that
1. being sexually abused does not make you more likely to be gay, BUT
2. statistically speaking being non-heterosexual makes you more likely to be abused.

To try and describe human sexuality and the complexity thereof in a single paragraph is absurd. I also suggest you get a post-1973 psychology book. Zapping people's brains with electricity is no longer the answer to everything you don't understand.


As for the Pope's comments. Good for him. The problem is the Catholic church (or specific Popes) has changed its minds on so many issues throughout the ages, that any Catholic would find it hard to know what to believe and what not - if they based their believes on Church Leaders' believes...

originally posted by: Raggedyman

Or Augustus masonicus, he seems to know everything as well

Thanks for stating the obvious, I think you may finally be getting the definition of 'omnipotent'.

I dunno about this Pope sometimes...
I feel his messages are not crystallized and are not so easy to see the truth of nor to agree with entirely...

While I 100 percent believe God loves gay people I dont believe he loves that they are gay...

Love the sinner hate the sin...

Also God can know all things...And people can still have free will, we need to remember that this is a test and will leave us with no more excuses...

a reply to: toms54

Was a tribe called the Ugerich who use to boil baby goats in their mothers milk to celebrate a pagan festival, God did not want the Hebrews to copy this practice
Hence the law
So I have heard, nothing to back it up with just yet, pretty good source though

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: toms54

Was a tribe called the Ugerich who use to boil baby goats in their mothers milk to celebrate a pagan festival, God did not want the Hebrews to copy this practice
Hence the law
So I have heard, nothing to back it up with just yet, pretty good source though

I found this:
Boiling a Kid in his Mother's milk?

One scholar refers to a series of tablets relating to the
Canaanite god Ba'al, whose worship is so frequently condemned in
the Bible, as a "Canaanite Bible."

Both the Ugaritic text and the Bible contain references to
cooking a kid in milk. Ginsberg concluded that the ritual
described in the Ugaritic tablet was the "same idolatrous custom
that the Torah forbade." In the Canaanite ritual, the milk in
which the kid was cooked symbolized the milk that the newly born
gods were given when suckled by the pagan goddesses Athirst and
Rahmay. The cooking of a goat in milk was forbidden in the Bible
because it "symbolizes the suckling [by the pagan goddesses] of
the newborn gods!"

Bible commentaries quickly made use of the scholars' work of
illuminate this previously obscure commandment.

Recent scholarship, however, has thoroughly un-dermined this
explanation.

It goes on. I haven't read all of it yet.

This rule doesn't seem to apply to chicken. They don't have mother's milk.

I'm not so much worried about the gays as these baby goat boilers. I will get to the bottom of it.

a reply to: toms54

Yeah, I did some research and havnt found anything solid either
Tricky one, maybe animal Husbandry?

originally posted by: ketsuko
Pope must be using the Queen James edition.

Wow. That was original.
*sarcasm*

a reply to: visitedbythem

Hi Visited—

Are you implying by your statement viz. ‘boiled goats do not spread disease’ that ‘homosexual acts’ in themselves (in some peculiar way) spread STD related diseases and that ‘heterosexual acts’ do not?

If so, you would perhaps do very well to take a basic Biology course and learn how STDs are actually spread in human populations—e.g. from both female to male and from male to female (including HIV, the vast majority of which (especially those newly-infected in the US) in the latter category consider themselvesves to be ‘heterosexual females’ who exclusively engage in heterosexual sex).

Now for some background about the paleo-Hebrew term ‘To’qebah’ (lit. ’ritually-hateful’, sometimes translated e.g. in the KJV as ‘abomination’ but more in line with the Polynesian technical term ‘tapu’ [or ‘taboo’], meaning ‘ritually-forbidden’) in the Hebrew bible with respect to male homosexual anal & oral fertility/cultic acts upon Canaanite altars to the Ba’alim (or the ritual-boiling of a young-male-goat in its own mother’s milk at the ancient Canaanite New Year (Baalite) Festival of Pesach (‘limping’) held every Spring before Hezekiah’s reforms put an end to the practice in the the 7th century BCE) etc. there are a number of ‘ritually-loathsome’ acts which the post-exilic Judaea cults of YHWH (especially after 587 BCE) inveighed-against and felt the need to list in their canon of ritual-no no’s (e.g. in their so-called Holiness Code (see especially the cultic prohibitions listed in Leveticus chapters 18 and 20) but other lists of Toq’eboth exist in the Torah & elsewhere in the Tanakh), which represented (originally) a list of ritual-dirties which had once applied only to the [exclusively male] priests of YHWH e.g. the illicit weaving of cotton & linen together in the same garment, the receiving of any tattooos or deliberately permanent ritual-scars upon the flesh, the cutting of the forelocks of the hair, any ritual temple-prostitution, child-sacrifice, any unlawful marriages of Levites to ‘mamzerim’ (non Levites), cross-dressing, the eating of shellfish like lobster or crab, and was extended to moral codes of conduct as well e.g. exacting financial usury upon a fellow-Israelite, cheating in the marketplace by the use of false-weights, adultery, &tc.

The Hebrew technical ritual term ‘toq’ebah’ was also applied in Bere#h (Gen. 46:34) with respect to the Egyptian priesthood who regarded it to be a ‘ritual-abomination rendering them ritually-unclean’ to touch or converse (or eat) with a member of the nomadic warrior ‘Hapiru’ (‘land-thieves’ i.e. the tent-building Yisro’elite hordes who had wandered with their flocks into the green wetlands of the Egyptian Nile Delta from Canaan during times of drought); it is a specifically ‘ritual’ technical term.

Should we assume that you likewise avoid shellfish in your diet and feel the need to refrain from mixing linen and cotton threads together in the same outfit or make it a point never to cut your hair to avoid offending YHWH for committing such ‘vile’ ritual-breaches of the holiness-code of the post-exilic Levitical priesthood?

Just a thought.

originally posted by: Sigismundus
a reply to: visitedbythem

Should we assume that you likewise avoid shellfish in your diet and feel the need to refrain from mixing linen and cotton threads together in the same outfit or make it a point never to cut your hair to avoid offending YHWH for committing such ‘vile’ ritual-breaches of the holiness-code of the post-exilic Levitical priesthood?

Just a thought

i believe there are people that try to do all of that.

originally posted by: Sigismundus
a reply to: visitedbythem

Just a thought.

Heres another thought.... Stay away from the catholic church

originally posted by: toms54

originally posted by: Sigismundus
a reply to: visitedbythem

Should we assume that you likewise avoid shellfish in your diet and feel the need to refrain from mixing linen and cotton threads together in the same outfit or make it a point never to cut your hair to avoid offending YHWH for committing such ‘vile’ ritual-breaches of the holiness-code of the post-exilic Levitical priesthood?

Just a thought

i believe there are people that try to do all of that.

I don't eat shellfish, or any other meat

originally posted by: visitedbythem

originally posted by: toms54

originally posted by: Sigismundus
a reply to: visitedbythem

Should we assume that you likewise avoid shellfish in your diet and feel the need to refrain from mixing linen and cotton threads together in the same outfit or make it a point never to cut your hair to avoid offending YHWH for committing such ‘vile’ ritual-breaches of the holiness-code of the post-exilic Levitical priesthood?

Just a thought

i believe there are people that try to do all of that.

I don't eat shellfish, or any other meat

I once read that before the flood, no one ate meat. Noah sacrificed the first animal when the ark landed. Most of the plants were destroyed. So now we eat meat but it wasn't that way in the beginning.