if you had proof of a god , would you actually worship it ?

originally posted by: noonebutme

originally posted by: Ruiner1978
So how come what Woodcarver observes or doesn't observe being at odds with other belief systems is everybody else's problem but his?

Because it IS everyone else's problem. Why is it his problem? If groupA who hold belief X are upset or annoyed with groupB who do not share belief X - why is it groupB's problem?

Unless we're talking about common sense social ideologies, like following the laws, not killing each other, etc.

Who cares if someone doesn't share your belief in a God or Gods or whomever? In western society we're allowed to disagree with each other and discuss and debate.

But from the view of group C, group B seems far more annoyed than group A.

Exactly, who cares?

a reply to: NickK3

What then? ... another problem with terms such as proof and questions about how one would react. That feeling you describe would (does) reside at the core of what I am. What is there to prove to who? I can't prove, discover, worship or react to being myself, what sense does that make ? And a feeling I experience doesn't "prove" anything to anyone, even me, I am what I am...

What if, in the first approach and touch of God, there is a recognition? That recognition growing from warmth, recognition and friendship to unconditional love and a sort of transcendence where one loses the sense of self. Of course I am just skimming here as there could be many other aspects to such an experience. So one might lose oneself in this joyous reunion with one's own God. The experience itself need not be encompassed with words, only the approach of God and the memory of that initial touch might be 'proof' enough for some.

A feeling experience might not constitute proof for anyone else but it might for the experiencer. You say that such an experience wouldn't be proof enough for you but you wouldn't know that unless you had had that experience.

My whole point really is that belief in God need not just be blind faith but could be based on some sort of direct experience. I sadly just chose a really long winded way to make it lol...

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: midicon

So God is like some kind of drug? Sounds addicting. Makes you feel all good to the point you don't believe and refuse to accept how horrible it must be to make things the way they are.

Perhaps there would be a realisation that this joy is what awaits everyone.

I like that idea of God being a drug, or at least somehow chemical in nature. I could run with that!

originally posted by: Ruiner1978
Exactly, who cares?

Well.. everyone on this thread it would seem.

originally posted by: noonebutme

originally posted by: Ruiner1978
Exactly, who cares?

Well.. everyone on this thread it would seem.

I agree, it does seem so...

a reply to: Skorpiogurl

Contact creates sound... sound was the first thing life started grasping after food to evolve otherwise life did not know itself to be separate like mold growing in an old fridge knows nothing separate even when dying.

Keep lightly ringing a small bell until it produces a word you recognize... after awhile nothing ever shuts up. That is the Zen or Chan experience known as awakening.

However that being a new grasping? Also the same old poison already present, yet not as it is awareness being aware of being awareness so become completely still in mind; and body carries the voice whether inner or outer makes no difference... as it is not one's own; it is a realm that can be heard and also one that can be watched with the clear eye; however the visual attachments like any dream will present just the same.

So of course purification from all attachments is necessary... this is why all heavens and hells are impermanent, be they hot or be they cold. Lose the name and the form ceases to be imprisoned, lose the form and the formless wanders in the dark.

Equipment like ghost radars, dictation software etc. can pick up these contacts or basically vibrations of matter; yet a clear ear works far better.

Ignoring those not self; is my suggestion as they are the ones attached... impermanent in various ways and of course the levels of suffering vary. Form whether known or unknown empty or filled is still a lokka thought about or not it is just there and unlike a dream will persist named or not; others may come along and try to name names passwords and reap all sorts of ignorance; best to not be one of those further down the path; as that grasping no matter what realm or level it is from? Typically carry greed or hate of some sort.

It could be said that life is not just a dream within a dream but an illusion within and illusion and well Buddhism is better known as an introduction to reality. Something that wipes away that delusion... if it eases beings already dreaming or delusional from grasping one can create illusions to appease them, however once reality presents itself to them? They will want to either love you or destroy you... so best not to delude in any present a false body, speech, or mind.

Right means right in all three of those worlds; the fourth is freedom and the rarest of attainments.

The end-game, downstream effect of direct intervention by THE God would be the cornered rat with no choice effect, loving God would be impossible. Now you know why at all costs, even billions of deaths, there cannot be supernatural appearance and intervention. You may not only lose your life, but you forever lose agape love, the final goal of all finite lifeforms.

Just a thought. If said God was in fact the creator of the universe and of course you and one were to be in His presence , you would most likely not have a choice. Worship would be automatic I think.

I posted early in the thread about the title hitting me sideways sorta. he....he

so ya sayin if i found proof of a, stop right there













god would be one.

then to call the figure you just had proofed, to be a all creator, then you fail at the knees. You know like in monty python's...... ( just the name giggles the hail out me.....like does friggin benny hill ), ah hurts cant stop picturing benny lookin at her pink underpanty's always showin for some reason.....like in the movie " Search for theb Holy whatsit" , the groveling to God. that's what we'd do and not say to his face " IT "




someone dare me to do a thread on BENNY HILL , i dare ya

a reply to: bluemooone2

The Buddha Manjushri was caught in a similar position; he tore the heads off of ten gods and wore the face as his own those not knowing his original face could not bear witness to any but the god they recognized as being their god.

The ten perfections... destroyed those god's working by Bumi's or those that deal boons to each other through kamma. Siddhars and the like dealing in manipulation of others Bosayers etc.

They all are known to swindle and cheat life to try to escape death; instead of treating life as the great perfection... in doing so life no matter the size or form will continually raise you up to the sum of all parts. Awareness as the elements will do the same and create a firmament.

When the historical Buddha used earth as witness; he was sitting of course the demons/mara collectively called the emptiness in which he dwelled many things eventually they called what he was sitting on: water. He knew it was earth without a word, so when he touched it as earth as his witness to their lies they all sank beneath the surface.

The entire earth is sentient only in delusion is it not...

Of course best to go back to form in the midst of emptiness while fools only kid themselves of what reality actually is.

Word is not reality it happens but it is a sound extruded from the link of causation known as contact.

He realized the spot where he died as an elephant beneath a tree and sat there; as a root dweller... brahma means bull which encomapsses many animals. The lion he supposed was the only other brahmin that could conquer him in that form, as a man to other men nothing better to conquer than that thing called "self" all that self others have fed you with that is not oneself, and all that self a you has fed you not oneself.

The true self eventually presents itself as the notself that has been shed continually tries to kill or tame what cannot be killed or tamed the link in causation known as the old man and the corpse, once free the stick is used to enlighten while the mara only plays fetch... it is the shadow or not self the one that would have incarnated if realization had not occured.

The one full of pride, greed and arrogance... to think there is anything except that moment that has never ended and yet has never began.

The five skandhas can be transformed; into the Buddhakaya.

The nose and taste are easiest to clear as they work as one... when dealt poison of any sort; consult the lore of the peacock and never mind the parrots of whatever form the dhammakaya sorts those two.

Chakravartins are a dangerous bunch; best to avoid those; the historical Buddha's father was one, and in a sutta the Buddha asked others to go check on him; as he never wanted to go see him himself. As the tradition of transmigration was something of other domination instead of self domination; not wanting to die and lose what the Buddha had already given up he continually tried to dominate and go back to the younger form of his son.

In the Hindu epics the same thing sort of occurred however; Rama was happy to give his all to his son Vishnu while the jealous son decided to play reverence to his brother instead of the father simply in order to try to piss off the latter. Despite Vishnu telling him time and time again to practice; his brother had other plans; much like Devadatta had for the Buddha as a cousin.

Great wealth can be stolen from those sorts of realized saints; in an effort to make profit off of what others call prophets... consider how much money has been made off of all sorts of people over the full course of time called devotees. The true one's never charge the way; only point to where your own line exists in your personal battle or struggle to regain a house one has never really left behind.

Some would say many of these despite the names are all the same; except for that thing known as personality... so of course the more one is taught to emulate the easier it is for that figurehead god or whatever is being emulated to flow through as an energy or spirit.

So of course kicking that "self" out at both ends means liberation from both or the neither either and the true self continually remains.

I can enter and leave my own wheel of life at any time; so it is best to focus on those whos path is easier to follow.

So hey if interested? Sitting is only sitting nothing else should ever occur if that's what one is asked they are doing... if one lies when asked? Expect a trip straight into hell.

Compassion allows a crossing of the six realms and loving kindness let's life as form simply flow. So of course; the precepts mean an undoing or an end to past kamma that when others reap past they cannot sow or grow a root... forced instead to devour their own.

The five senses can be transmuted into the five buddha families they should know better however than to try to take a crown left on the last throne called death... as one already occured for most on birth.

There are these types of birth; womb, egg, moisture, and spontaneous.

a reply to: ntech

OK but the "rapture" has even been hotly contested by Christians as not being sound biblical doctrine

a reply to: ignorant_ape

i shall respond to some of the " best " later

When is later.....??

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

mea culpa - i forgot - now you has reminded me - i shall start teh process

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

Oh, Really?

Explain this.

Revelation 7.

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.


Where did all the people come from?

And this.
Matthew 24

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The people are gathered and then appear in heaven. Put these verses together and it's obvious when the day of the Lord starts a rapture event is part of the activities.

a reply to: ignorant_ape

ANother day, waiting waiting

a reply to: ignorant_ape

Waiting waiting