School shooter used SHOTGUN AND REVOLVER

I usually stay out of the american gun debate as well as mass shooting posts, simply because it seems to get very heated and some get nasty; as we are all part of the ATS family, I think we should have a little more respect for each other. Anyhow, Im going to dare put my 2 cents in....

As a non American this is how I see it. (born and raised in UK, live in Canada), I don't really know where I am going here haha.

I am not against guns; I own one and a bow for hunting.
I am not against liberals or conservatives.

Now, to blame one and not the other is illogical to me. Yes guns kill people, mechanically, but it is also the person behind the gun. The blame has to be put on both sides. Why has there been 22 school shootings this year in the USA? that's an incredible and horrific number.

The logic to some is it's not guns its people. Well I left the UK when I was 25, and in 25 years we had one school shooting. Guns became extremely and stupidly hard to get after. That happened when I was 13/14 so in 11 or 12 years, there hasn't been another, even after I left 10 years ago and still nothing, so a good 20 years. So to say its not guns its people could be very blind to the fact that people aren't shooting up schools, like the UK, on a monthly basis. So you could say, the UK banned handguns, rifles and shotguns are legal after a horribly long process and the problem seemed to go away. Now you aren't going to tell me that there isn't any more high school kids in the UK who would love to shoot up a school....but they can't because they don't have guns.

However the other logic is people are to blame. If that is the case don't you have to look at what is wrong with the USA and its teenagers? Why are American teens shooting up schools, and again in example the UK they are not. If it's the people, then doesn't America have a serious issue with mentally ill teens to a degree so high that 22 sh cools are being shot up in 6 months...That's a lot.


So these are just my thoughts on this. I don't pretend to know how to solve the issue in the USA, but I think we/you have to recognize there is one. Yes you have your right to bare arms, but when does the right to bare arms come above the freedom of life. Every human and child has the right to life, so if these guns or people are to blame isn't it time to step up, come together and think of a real solution to this growing problem. The question is, is America ready to come together and come up with a solution; regardless of who is to blame.

originally posted by: Ghostsinthefog


Now, to blame one and not the other is illogical to me. Yes guns kill people, mechanically, but it is also the person behind the gun. The blame has to be put on both sides. Why has there been 22 school shootings this year in the USA? that's an incredible and horrific number.

Well there hasn't been 22 this year... the number must have been added up by a used car salesman. Political...hmmm

Here is CNN's 22 school shootings, tell me what you think?

shootings somewhere near a school...

originally posted by: sligtlyskeptical
I think it is due time for gun owners to start taking responsibility for their own instead of pretending that we don't have a problem. In order to preserve your rights you all should be leading the charge toward common sense gun laws before you end with no common sense gun laws.

There they are! The common sense gun control person. Tell me, which common sense gun control law would have prevented this, that i should be rushing head long to support?

Another bunch of dead kids, this is awful, every other month kids lose their lives at school...

Time to make parents responsible if their kids have access to their weapons, nothing else works so maybe time for a different approach... Lock the idiot parents up who do not properly secure their weapons.....

originally posted by: Ghostsinthefog
I usually stay out of the american gun debate as well as mass shooting posts, simply because it seems to get very heated and some get nasty; as we are all part of the ATS family, I think we should have a little more respect for each other. Anyhow, Im going to dare put my 2 cents in....

As a non American this is how I see it. (born and raised in UK, live in Canada), I don't really know where I am going here haha.

I am not against guns; I own one and a bow for hunting.
I am not against liberals or conservatives.

Now, to blame one and not the other is illogical to me. Yes guns kill people, mechanically, but it is also the person behind the gun. The blame has to be put on both sides. Why has there been 22 school shootings this year in the USA? that's an incredible and horrific number.

The logic to some is it's not guns its people. Well I left the UK when I was 25, and in 25 years we had one school shooting. Guns became extremely and stupidly hard to get after. That happened when I was 13/14 so in 11 or 12 years, there hasn't been another, even after I left 10 years ago and still nothing, so a good 20 years. So to say its not guns its people could be very blind to the fact that people aren't shooting up schools, like the UK, on a monthly basis. So you could say, the UK banned handguns, rifles and shotguns are legal after a horribly long process and the problem seemed to go away. Now you aren't going to tell me that there isn't any more high school kids in the UK who would love to shoot up a school....but they can't because they don't have guns.

However the other logic is people are to blame. If that is the case don't you have to look at what is wrong with the USA and its teenagers? Why are American teens shooting up schools, and again in example the UK they are not. If it's the people, then doesn't America have a serious issue with mentally ill teens to a degree so high that 22 sh cools are being shot up in 6 months...That's a lot.


So these are just my thoughts on this. I don't pretend to know how to solve the issue in the USA, but I think we/you have to recognize there is one. Yes you have your right to bare arms, but when does the right to bare arms come above the freedom of life. Every human and child has the right to life, so if these guns or people are to blame isn't it time to step up, come together and think of a real solution to this growing problem. The question is, is America ready to come together and come up with a solution; regardless of who is to blame.

Except that only 3 of those 22 should be considered school shootings. The rest have 1 or 2 people injured and could have easily been done with a knife. They are also mostly disputes that happened to occur on school property. And thats out of a country of over 325,000,000 people .
As for rights, well its always been liberty before safety.

a reply to: kaylaluv

That's a hard no thank you . If that was the law that would mean they could enter your home without a warrant just because they wanted to and collect evidence.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: dragonridr

Whats changed is how we treat each other.......

When we were younger, we might not even like one another but we had respect for human life.....and if we had a beef, we took care of it........parents were parents, school teachers were also mentors and disciplined bad behavior.....

We didnt have so much disdain for other people and turn so quick to narcissistic hate.....sure it happened SOMETIMES , but not like people do today.....

We see it all the time #savage #moneymoneymoney , people bragging about cash over relationships and peoples feelings......

What our society has become and continues to push as whats "important" is what are churning out people like this , who bully people 24/7 with no regard for how their actions affect people.....

There was a time where if someone was being beatn in the street or something bad was happening people would step in to help........

Now they just want to video tape it and put it on Facebook or Youtube.......

You cant tell me that sh!t doesnt have an impact on the mindset of youth, and indeed society...

Quoted you because it needs to be read and listened to.

Unfortunatly people will not step back from the likes addiction that is being used to validate their existence.

originally posted by: Lab4Us
I cannot believe an American would give up their right to privacy so willingly!

Spot checks without a warrant or reasonable cause? No thank you.

Lock up your instrument of self protection with the part needed to make it useful (ammunition) locked in a separate container? Please think that through or read it aloud to yourself so you can see how it sounds.

Why are schools targets? Hmmm, betting “No gun zone” might be a clue. A sure indication nothing can quickly stop your assault.

There are ways to prevent school shootings once folks get past their fear of guns, self-defense, trained law enforcement (and staff) on campuses, etc. These would be MUCH quicker to implement than grabbing everyones guns or restrictiing their Constitutional Rights.

This guy had a shotgun, a revolver, and IEDs (which everyone is ignoring). About time to get past AR-15s and “high capacity” magazines (and really, is 12 rounds really high capacity?). I mean you can get a revolver that holds 7 or 8 rounds.

It is the MENTAL MAKEUP of the perpetrator...not the instruments used.

I cringe every time I see one of these incidences. With a daughter,sister and niece that are teachers and various nieces and nephews in school it's going to a concern for years.

I agree it is going to take multiple approaches to address this issue. Agree with the secure locking up guns in the household and separate from the ammo. Maybe have laws where when you purchase a gun you need to get lock or case to secure the gun. Tax breaks on purchasing locks to encourage persons that already have guns to lock them up tightly. After the fact heavy fines for persons that can't prove everything was locked up tight, and I'm not talking about a glass gun case where the lock can be picked with a butter knife. It has to come down to personal responsibility, take pictures and videos for proof like you do with home owners insurance. Obviously there will still be incidences, but can almost guarantee these guns weren't locked up and secure.Every gun must be secured especially in household with kids and teenagers. Most responsible gun owners already have their guns already locked away to a certain extent it might just require a few additional measures.

Yes I completely understand the what if's somebody is breaking in and you need it quickly, a trigger lock and ammo nearby also locked up with the key around your neck, or memorized combination when you go to bed seems to be a workable solution or if it's that much of a concern,every night get your gum from its locked case and every morning put it up, yes a pain in the ass but you would definitely feel better knowing they are locked up when you aren't home. Think it's important for my pro gun side to come up with viable alternatives.

Metal detectors limited access points etc are going to cost a bundle, but it would definitely make it more difficult for things to happen on school grounds, I'd imagine you would see them hit other hang outs or softer targets eventually, but it would also create more jobs especially if they were required to be domestically made.

As for the mental health /bullying thats going to take a complete change in how schools operate and additional employees on campus.But I do think its the area that lends itself to a variety of ways to lessen a making of a school shooter. Right now doubt there is even a mechanism to report potentials much less, offer any assistance. Its a tough call no parent wants to think their kid has issues, and no doubt on the ones that do have them there has already been a certain disconnect at home anyway. ie you can't punish somebody on what they might do. Don't know if I'd want a doctor psychoanalyzing students either,needs to be more organic less intrusive.

Might take seriously thinking out side the box, limiting daily attendance on campus with online/video attendance for certain classes and or age groups and or days of the week,anything that would lower what seems to be a pressure cooker to some individuals till they blow. Considering the expense of college these days we might ought to have alternatives for students who aren't likely to attend college for whatever reason some juniors and seniors might be better served to try and identify and take classes/courses on a specific trade or area of personal interest instead of cramming into a chemistry or math class they have no interest or aptitude for. All of this would cost lots of bucks but you might be able to get businesses to sponsor it, so they could identify potential employees. Sure you are going to always have people that don't conform but if they have multiple alternatives and still do poorly, it would be a big red flag to to them being on a concern list.


We on the right need to explore multiple ideas and push any that are deemed possible viable options, if it stopped one or two incidences a year it would be worth it.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
Well, he shouldn’t have been able to get hold of his father’s guns. Were they locked up like they should have been?

This is why we should require by law guns be locked up at all times, and we should have random checks to make sure they are - I believe there are other countries that do this.

If they had been properly locked up, this kid wouldn’t have been able to shoot anyone.

If Adam Lanza’s mother had properly locked hers up, he wouldn’t have been able to shoot anyone.

I would honestly like to understand your mindset here. Do you honestly feel like outside government agencies should be allowed to do random searches on private citizens homes? If that isn't what you meant, please clarify.

a reply to: network dude

I will clarify my mindset for you. I'm freaking sick and freaking tired of freaking nutjobs easily getting freaking guns from their freaking relatives to kill a bunch of innocent people in a surprise attack.

I want those freaking guns locked away, and I want some reassurance and guarantees that it actually happens. You tell me how to make all that work, and I'll be on board.

Does that clarify it for you?

a reply to: kaylaluv

I will clarify my mindset for you. I'm freaking sick and freaking tired of freaking nutjobs easily getting freaking guns from their freaking relatives to kill a bunch of innocent people in a surprise attack.

Guess what? They don't care either.

a reply to: BotheLumberJack

The threat of paying a hefty fine or going to jail or even (gasp!) getting their guns taken away due to not having them secured properly might make them care.

a reply to: kaylaluv

The last thing Terrorists and Murders give a # about is getting arrested. /gasp

a reply to: BotheLumberJack

I'm not talking about terrorists. I'm talking about kids/teens getting hold of their parent's guns because the guns aren't properly secured.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: network dude

I will clarify my mindset for you. I'm freaking sick and freaking tired of freaking nutjobs easily getting freaking guns from their freaking relatives to kill a bunch of innocent people in a surprise attack.

I want those freaking guns locked away, and I want some reassurance and guarantees that it actually happens. You tell me how to make all that work, and I'll be on board.

Does that clarify it for you?

I think so. You are letting your emotions override your common sense.

I'll come up with a solid plan of action, right after you explain how we are going to legislate morality.

a reply to: kaylaluv

Ok. When I said

Guess what? They don't care either.

to your statement

I'm freaking sick and freaking tired of freaking nutjobs easily getting freaking guns from their freaking relatives to kill a bunch of innocent people in a surprise attack.

, I assumed you were talking about just that. Crazy people, we frequently refer to as Terrorists and Murderers, and yes, sometimes idiots with a frequent lack of moral capactity.

a reply to: kaylaluv

making people responsible for their weapons storage is an acceptable answer as far as I am concerned.

But you still have to deal with the fact that a 17 year old kid was willing to kill others just because he didn't like them. THAT is a problem and it's the 800lb gorilla in the room. Once we start to address that, and stop putting all the focus on the tool used, we may make some progress. Sadly, so many are suffering from politically driven tunnel vision.

a reply to: network dude

Nothing to do with legislating morality. Unless you think its morality to not make it easy for disturbed teens to have easy access to guns.

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: kaylaluv

This is why we should require by law guns be locked up at all times, and we should have random checks to make sure they are - I believe there are other countries that do this. 

Other countries may allow for random checks in your home.
In this country, that would be just a tad unconstitutional.

No it would not. The Second Amendment stipulates " a well organized militia." By acquiring arms you become a member of the militia, and are subject to military discipline. Kayla's response threw everyone off guard. No-one is coming for your guns, we just want people to be more responsible.

Double post. --DJW001