Question: Is there any human qualities that technology will not eventually be able to emulate

originally posted by: dug88

originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck
First, a disclaimer: I have no research to present here, merely a few thoughts on this subject, hence why I'm presenting this question in the General Chit Chat Forum.

I've been reading here and there about the different achievements in robotics and computer programming that are mimicking human abilities and behaviors to the degree that it now seems possible that machines will one day meet and surpass human capabilities, even without becoming what we would consider sentient.

I have giving thought to the idea that there is or will be machines that can do anything humans can do, but can or will be able to do it more precisely, efficiently and quickly than humans can. It seems that there can be a machine created to fill every job now performed by humans without the need for high levels of artificial intelligence. The better the understanding humans have about how things are, the better we can create machines that can perform the same processes that brought us to that understanding. It seems that eventually machines will be able to do this better than humans can at this point.

I had thought at one time that machines will never have the same capacity for creative endeavors that humans have, but computer programming can be made to use the same creative tools to mimic our greatest artists and their techniques. After thinking about all the things that humans do, I began to think that eventually the sex industry would be the last niche that machines will not be able to fully occupy. However, it seems that machines will one day meet and then surpass the "real feel" of human intimacy.

Currently machines serve mankind, but I can see that once humans have been effectively replaced by machines, there will be a period of time when humans will be servicing machines until they have machines to do that job as well. What will be left for humanity after we have engineered and programmed every aspect and characteristic of humans into our machines? What qualities do humans have the machines will never be able to conquer? What could humans claim to have that give value and meaning to our existence once we have machines do everything humans can do? Once machines have become human from every practical point of view, what can humans become to exceed the capacity of the machines? Will machines surpass humanity, or will humans evolve to become something more than their machines? Will our human biology ever over come the technical ability of our ever more advanced machinery?

My answer to those questions is perhaps given enough time we could be something more, but I have the sinking feeling that the machines will get to the point that they will always be many steps ahead of their human creators.

I spend all day programming and running machines that make thing people used to make by hand. As many of the fantastical seeming things AI can do. I don't think it can replace the entirety of even what i do let alone the countless other trades and crafts out there. There's still a lot of parts of the process that come down to subjective judgements based on human senses and a life of experience.

Plus machines always # up...always...there's nothing like showing up in the morning after a power surge and your machines don't know where the # they are any more. Or, when a small speck of dust lands on a microcontroller inside a sealed cabinet and somehow shorts out the entire emergency stop system. Or when you get a coolant temperature alarm and you open the chiller unit to find a #ing waterfall pouring out of it. Or the constant, never ending maintenance all machines require. God so many nipples to grease...

That is the current reality, it will improve eventually IMO.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

That's impossible, the very essence of a program is that it is a formulation which compiles the information according to its process'. I'm talking about whole and complete information arriving completely out of the blue contingent upon nothing

a reply to: LucidWarrior

It has to come from somewhere.

Insight and inspiration would be based on knowledge and experience. Intuition would be based more on instinct. These human attributes ultimately come from some mental processes that could likely be programmed once they are fully understood. I'm not saying that our understanding of these things are complete or that computer hardware and software today are anywhere close to what is needed to simulate these effects, but I don't think it's out of reach eventually.

Unless you really believe that things like insight and inspiration come from a source outside of our minds and just pops in out of nowhere. Even given that these thoughts come from somewhere else, we'd just have to understand the source (whatever it is) and be able to tap into it intentionally then program a machine to do the same.

originally posted by: IAMAMOG
a reply to: [post=23411663]MichiganSwampB yes because emotions are variable and transient a machine would consistently have the same emotion to the same scenario ....unless it randomly spat out an emotion from a selection of possible emotions ...but even then they would be out of place ....if i won the lottery ...you crashing into my car would have a much different outcome than if i had just lost all my money gambling for example...my facial expressions would suit my reaction leading up to the emotional trigger.

Yes, human emotions are complex and I agree that programming hasn't been developed that could match the complexity of human emotions, yet. I'm merely going beyond what is currently possible and supposing that it can be accurately simulated one day. If this does eventually occur and machines are perfected to emulate human beings, what do we have left and where do we go from there to become something more? Would it even be possible to become more than a perfectly developed human simulation?

I believe it may be possible, but we'd have to become something more than human to do so. Some have suggested that becoming part of the machine is the only answer, that we become cyborgs and integrate, like the Borg of Star Trek.

They can’t give a good haircut or any other cosmetic applications to look right. You actually need to look at the person’s face while doing it.

Can’t cook, need to taste test and add just the right amount of herbs, salt , pepper, pour liquids.

Not sure I’d want a robot operating on my brain either. Or delivering a baby.

There must be more much they’re of no use at , but that’s just off the top of my head.


My answer was more about replacing humans in the workplace , but overall they lack artistic integrity and can’t just wing it,

Personally, I think it'll absolutely get there. "There" being machines being able to at least emulate anything "human" convincingly enough as to be indistinguishable.

That said, they wont actually be human. Which seems obvious, but its pretty profound I think.

What I expect is that the beginning stages will emulate us, since I'm not sure we can frame it any differently, but will then start to grow into its own novel entity(ies) that will be as foreign from our experience as plants.

originally posted by: violet
They can’t give a good haircut or any other cosmetic applications to look right. You actually need to look at the person’s face while doing it.

Can’t cook, need to taste test and add just the right amount of herbs, salt , pepper, pour liquids.

Not sure I’d want a robot operating on my brain either. Or delivering a baby.

There must be more much they’re of no use at , but that’s just off the top of my head.


My answer was more about replacing humans in the workplace , but overall they lack artistic integrity and can’t just wing it,

The machines aren't quite there yet, so your statements have merit at this stage of their development. However, they are developing and the pace is picking up, I pose the eventuality that they will become just like us. When they get that far, what qualities will humans have that machines won't?

originally posted by: Serdgiam
Personally, I think it'll absolutely get there. "There" being machines being able to at least emulate anything "human" convincingly enough as to be indistinguishable.

That said, they wont actually be human. Which seems obvious, but its pretty profound I think.

What I expect is that the beginning stages will emulate us, since I'm not sure we can frame it any differently, but will then start to grow into its own novel entity(ies) that will be as foreign from our experience as plants.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply Serdgiam, this is along the lines I was looking for.

What you're saying then is that machines will become like humans then evolve well beyond us. Unless we prevent them from developing beyond a certain point, I feel certain they could ultimately exceed their human creators beyond the bounds of humanity. Will they be better than us or just very different? Will they leave the nest and having nothing more to do with us, coexist with humans, or take control without any regard for the human race? Many worse case scenarios have them consider humans a threat and try to wipe us out.

If they retain our worst characteristics and build on that, they could become some horrible monsters. That one new X-Files episode where Mulder and Scully are chased and harassed by the AI that Mulder didn't tip at the restaurant is a humorous but sobering example.

Some Sci-Fi scenarios have machines evolve into helpful servants deserving respect and an equal status with human beings (ie. Star Wars or Mr. Data of Star Trek). Others have machines become our greatest enemies (ie. Battlestar Galatica, Star Trek's Borg, Terminator, etc.). Some have humans integrate well with their machines (ie. Zardoz and a few others). I robot was a mix of a number of scenarios with human lust for power being the biggest threat. 2001: A Space Odyssey was dealing directly with the question presented here, where the machines begin to become a problem but mankind evolves into something more than human in the end.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

I feel like the "sketchiest" time period will be the beginning phases. I think that stretch of time will define much of how it all pans out.

I think that negative outcomes will be dictated more by us than the machines. Taken as an objective whole, we are pretty violent as a species.

Personally, I can see Cultural Stories that we are on the verge of being able to understand and adopt and depending on how that goes, I think we will get a good idea on how much teamwork there will be. But! Given that those Stories are at the edge of our perception as it stands, the machines we create will also likely have those possibilities right in reach of their perception. In that scenario, I could see them assisting us in realizing the next stage of civilization.

Understanding something like "Greed" could change our Story overnight. Most either view it as bad or they act it out as they understand it. However, I believe it can actually be a positive tool, depending on how we actually approach and satiate that desire.

We haven't really changed our Story since the advent of feudalism. I'm not sure that we, as a species, were ever meant to stagnate like that in any area.. but I suppose that's what happens when one group puts enormous time, effort, and progress into pacifying, directing, and outright controlling the "serfs." It was originally kings and queens and then broke down into what we see today; small groups trying to build and isolate their factions throughout society.

Even though the consequences of all this are, in my opinion, absolutely dire.. its a really fascinating topic. To me, its probably the most fascinating, as well as the most important. I think its also a very big subject in scope, depth, and implication.

Essentially though: Can we leverage technology to change the foundation of our society and culture, or will we remain the same as we have for generations.. just with more fancy hammers?

a reply to: Serdgiam

That's a lot to process Serdgiam.

It brings to my mind at least one idea off the top of my head. It seems most likely that money and power will be backing and thus directing the development of our machines and what purposes they will have. Greed and power seem likely goals for the purpose. Not good in my opinion, as this will further stagnate human development, even effectively causing us to devolve rather than evolve as a species.

Double post!

Triple post!

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

Humans might be losing their unique qualities.
Most are fuelled by greed nowadays, so it’s likely they could learn that and fit in.