Kanye West Calls Slavery A ‘Choice,’ Gets Schooled On History

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: Boadicea

Kanye literally said the following (HERE):

“I am a proud non-reader of books. I like to get information from doing stuff like actually talking to people and living real life,” he said.

That's the exact opposite of reading the historical documents for himself. And that's especially true in regards to historical events that happened before any of us were alive.

BFD. Kanye said that in 2009 -- HERE.. Since you are relying on a 10-year-old quote, I will assume that you have nothing more recent from Kanye. Maybe he still doesn't read books... maybe he does. Neither you nor I know for sure.

Or maybe Kanye did not/does not read FICTION books --

“Sometimes people write novels and they just be so wordy and so self-absorbed,” West said.

-- but did/does read non-fiction books. Maybe Kanye reads up on specific subjects in encyclopedias and other reference materials, but doesn't read the entire "book."

You are jumping to a whole lot of conclusions that are not evidenced by Kanye's words.

And I'm not going to fault Kanye or anyone from learning from the wisdom and experience of others, much less their own experiences. Especially when that knowledge and information is used as a foundation to expand and grow and increase knowledge and understanding.

That's called well-rounded... as in the opposite of an echo chamber.

a reply to: Boadicea

And I'm not going to fault Kanye or anyone from learning from the wisdom and experience of others, much less their own experiences. Especially when that knowledge and information is used as a foundation to expand and grow and increase knowledge and understanding.

How you can support someone that writes lyrics like this, is beyond me....knowledge and understanding, really?

genius.com...

a reply to: Sublimecraft

Well in that case he should have said "153 years of slavery" was a choice. Which 400 year period of voluntary slavery are you referring to? Or did Kanye just not weigh his words very well?

If the slavery started out with ~250 years of forced slavery, and the rest of it was voluntary, is it fair to call the whole 400 years voluntary or forced? Or maybe it could be called both? Or neither?

Also, I disagree with Kanye about black people still being slaves.

a reply to: olaru12

I am not "supporting" Kanye.

But I'm sure as hell supporting freedom of thought and expression and action by EVERYONE!!!

Kanye saying it doesn't make it right or wrong. I was on the freedom train long before Kanye. It would be just as ignorant and arrogant of me to reject his words and ideas because he's Kanye as it would be for me to embrace his words and ideas because he's Kanye.

This is much bigger than Kanye.

a reply to: olaru12

So mired in identity politics that you cannot fathom that supporting ones rights to speak isn't the same as supporting ones words?

originally posted by: Cutepants
a reply to: Sublimecraft

Well in that case he should have said "153 years of slavery" was a choice. Which 400 year period of voluntary slavery are you referring to? Or did Kanye just not weigh his words very well?

If the slavery started out with ~250 years of forced slavery, and the rest of it was voluntary, is it fair to call the whole 400 years voluntary or forced? Or maybe it could be called both? Or neither?

Also, I disagree with Kanye about black people still being slaves.

In my opinion, this is a far more practical and appropriate discussion to be having. Kanye's words have been deliberately twisted and contorted by some to say something Kanye wasn't trying to say... and his words have been understandably misunderstood by others to be saying something he wasn't trying to say. It's fair enough to criticize how he said it, which could be an honest teaching moment for Kanye (and lots of us). It's fair enough to discuss his metaphors and analogies, and their failings. It's also fair enough to consider the finer points of the issues -- such as how the laws did continue to subjugate and repress Black people long after the end of slavery and the war, or the terrorizing of Black people by the KKK, etc.

All of the above and more is well worth discussing -- and SHOULD BE discussed.

But that's not possible as long as the focus is on hating him for something he wasn't saying to begin with.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: olaru12

So mired in identity politics that you cannot fathom that supporting ones rights to speak isn't the same as supporting ones words?

I support everyone's freedom of speech! I also support freedom of speech when it's critical of a dumb ass writing obscene rap lyrics.

It works both ways.

Character and honor is still admired by some of us; And in my opinion Kanye West has neither. I'm not surprised Trump and Kanye are pals.

a reply to: olaru12

His music is terrible.

Not my taste, really.

TBH, most rap music is mumbled so bad i can't even tell what is being said.

a reply to: Boadicea

Yeah, obviously I'm seeing it in on way and you in another. It's possible to read different things into his statement. And just generally speaking it's good to see some blacks supporting Trump like this, just mixing things up a bit. Makes any kind of race war just a little bit less likely.

This whole thread is an argument over semantics, really. But it's pretty weird if we take him to mean 400 years of mental slavery; then he means that African Americans were originally physically forced to be slaves, but at the same time they chose to have a slavish mentality as well?

And I don't think they're slaves anymore, in any real sense of the word. Or if blacks are slaves then people of all races are. And that's fair enough I guess, but then why does he specifically define the start of black slavery at 400 years ago, just happens to be exactly when they had to start living as slaves too and not just thinking like slaves. (I know there was slavery before that, of course. But Kanye said it, not me!)

I'm making a pretty annoying, semantic argument here but that's not my fault. The whole defense of Kanye's words is built on defining what exact definition of slavery he was talking about.

I feel like we actually agree about a lot though, just not about the meaning of this particular thing that Kanye said

EDIT: I don't know if we even disagree about the literal meaning of what he said, or maybe we do, but it's more like we prefer to interpret it in different ways.

Why doesn’t Kanye at his next concert where the MAGA hat. Go to Chicago or any "hood" where he supposed to be from and walk around and say slavery was voluntary. And if he comes out alive then he should be commended!

originally posted by: Willtell
Why doesn’t Kanye at his next concert where the MAGA hat. Go to Chicago or any "hood" where he supposed to be from and walk around and say slavery was voluntary. And if he comes out alive then he should be commended!

Ahh, yes...the might makes right approach.

You can always tell who the tyrants are. They suggest violence as a cure for free speech.

a reply to: Willtell

Mental slavery IS a choice.

a reply to: JosephKnecht

Funny how you think slavery and segregation are comparable.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

It's a real stretch to call rap, music.

Just like everything in modern society.

Art,literature,film, etc.

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: Willtell

Mental slavery IS a choice.

If you, like Kanye, want to get on this philosophical curve-- fine. But even their-- psychological slavery is NOT necessarily voluntary. It depends on the external and internal experience of the person and the philosophical opinions of the individual.

So even on that level you and Kanye are wrong.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: Willtell
Why doesn’t Kanye at his next concert where the MAGA hat. Go to Chicago or any "hood" where he supposed to be from and walk around and say slavery was voluntary. And if he comes out alive then he should be commended!

Ahh, yes...the might makes right approach.

You can always tell who the tyrants are. They suggest violence as a cure for free speech.

Nobody is saying he should be beaten up. ALL I’m saying is, if you could for a second get out of your RIGHT-WING dogma prison, he doesn’t speak like this in his rap music or in the “hood” where he supposedly comes from

I think even you right wingers would call that hypocrisy

originally posted by: Willtell

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: Willtell
Why doesn’t Kanye at his next concert where the MAGA hat. Go to Chicago or any "hood" where he supposed to be from and walk around and say slavery was voluntary. And if he comes out alive then he should be commended!

Ahh, yes...the might makes right approach.

You can always tell who the tyrants are. They suggest violence as a cure for free speech.

Nobody is saying he should be beaten up. ALL I’m saying is, if you could for a second get out of your RIGHT-WING dogma prison, he doesn’t speak like this in his rap music or in the “hood” where he supposedly comes from

I think even you right wingers would call that hypocrisy

Is his "music" him discussing the plight of whatever, or is it him making money?

How can it be hypocrisy unless he claims to be using his music as the voice of a people or something? Its just words put to a rhythm, recorded, and then sold for profit. Is a deeper meaning required or something?

I think you are looking for a signalling of virtue that just isn't there.

I’m not doing anything but expressing my opinion just as people here are for some strange reason praising him for expressing his.


Nobody but damn fools, like that other rap singer who threatened him with a bunch of crips and or bloods, would want to harm this man for his not so unique opinions. He's on Zoloft, for crying out loud!


So we have the right to challenge his views.

originally posted by: Cutepants
a reply to: Boadicea

Yeah, obviously I'm seeing it in on way and you in another.

Maybe we're just seeing it from different angles... from our own experiences and confirmation biases. But that's okay... better than okay! Because I also think we're having a real discussion and dialogue. And I thank you for that!

It's possible to read different things into his statement.

Yup. That's always a problem with metaphors... I figure as an artist Kanye likes to express himself in what he considers a creative way. And it probably seem crystal clear to him, but the rest of us not so much. And I do wonder how much he's trying to deliberately stir the pot... make things happen... get people talking about these issues. He may have used the metaphors he did hoping or expecting to get this response. I hope not though. I would hope that his intention was to inspire thought outside of comfort zones... and I would much prefer to see people asking Kanye what he meant, or even to tell him how they hear that and ask how he could say that, than to tell him what he meant.

And just generally speaking it's good to see some blacks supporting Trump like this, just mixing things up a bit. Makes any kind of race war just a little bit less likely.

That's a great point. I've been heartened to see other Blacks supporting Kanye and his right to think and speak for himself. Even one comment that said something like "Still love Kanye but eff Trump."

This whole thread is an argument over semantics, really.

I agree -- at least for the most part. Instead of discussing the ideas behind the words, we're fighting over the words used. (The collective "we" -- not you and me "we.")

And I don't think they're slaves anymore, in any real sense of the word. Or if blacks are slaves then people of all races are.

I think that was Kanye's greater point.... but I know that's what I already think, so maybe that's why I read it that way!

And that's fair enough I guess, but then why does he specifically define the start of black slavery at 400 years ago, just happens to be exactly when they had to start living as slaves too and not just thinking like slaves. (I know there was slavery before that, of course. But Kanye said it, not me!)

It's a good question... I really wish someone would ask him. Kanye could learn from such a discussion himself. It may not change his opinion, but may change -- improve -- how he expresses those opinions.

I'm making a pretty annoying, semantic argument here...

There I disagree. In my opinion, you are directly addressing the root of the controversy, which goes back to Kanye's words. It's the nature of the beast.

I feel like we actually agree about a lot though, just not about the meaning of this particular thing that Kanye said

EDIT: I don't know if we even disagree about the literal meaning of what he said, or maybe we do, but it's more like we prefer to interpret it in different ways.

I think we're actually pretty darn close on many things. At least we're both noting that we can only speak for what we think Kanye was trying to say.... and that his actual words sure makes that difficult!

But we're discussing and expressing ourselves in the best way. And I think that's awesome. Thank you.

Kayne was making sense for the first part of it. He went way off the edge with the slavery thing though. It made sense that he felt like everybody was trying to tell him how to feel , so then in turn, he felt he needed to go to the right.
I don't see how this is anything complicated. This is simply about Kayne being told what to think/feel and then him rebeling.

I'm sure all the mainstream tabloid news will make this a big deal though.