Baby Alfie given Italian citizenship

originally posted by: Irishhaf
The kid is probably toast, but they had an air ambulance, and a hospital and doctors willing to continue treatment, so why block the transport.

Instead they insist on telling the parents let us pull the plug on your kid, I read last time this kids name came up that they didn't want to let the kid go because transport might kill him.

Well fine, your going to pull the plug anyways let the parents at least have this last moment with the kid trying to do everything possible to save him rather than tell them tough this is it.

There is a lot being said about this case without anyone looking at the facts. For anyone interested, please look at this local source below regarding Alfie Evans's condition.

What exactly is Alfie Evans' condsition?

As you can see, his brain is rotting away. His cortex has already gone. His father has said he is breathing today after they turend the life support off last night but as any medic could tell you, that is the bodies naturaly reaction in such circumstances. Breathing requires minimal brain function / activity over a short period but this will start to dwindle today.

The Pope sticking his two pennies in has not been helpful at all. In very simple terms, the hospital in Rome is not offering anything different. There is no other treatment he could have, nothing experimental. They would simply be putting him though the pain and distress of moving him just to prolong his suffering. If there was some hope, i would back his parents to the hilt but there really isn't in this case.

originally posted by: burgerbuddy

Sure you as the parent would believe them?

They have the medical knowledge I would in all sense have to bow to their

superior knowledge, and except that my child had not was unable to exist

without constant medical intervention.

IMO doctors are performing 'miracles' daily.

They can't take him out of hospital until he's dead!

Now the govt can tell u where you can die?

As someone without religion but spiritually aware my answer to that is....

When you die..... is in God's hand.

a reply to: Flavian

They would simply be putting him though the pain and distress of moving him just to prolong his suffering

If he is already effectivly dead, what pain and suffering is he going to feel?
The kid is effectivly dead already, so what exactly does the govt gain by preventing the parents from moving him?

a reply to: Irishhaf

The government gains nothing - this has absolutely nothing to do with the government. It is the decision of the medics at a world renowned Children's Hospital.

originally posted by: Irishhaf

If he is already effectivly dead, what pain and suffering is he going to feel?
The kid is effectivly dead already, so what exactly does the govt gain by preventing the parents from moving him?

He cannot be moved without all the expensive medical equipment he is

currently using just to keep him alive plus it will be needed someone medical

who knows how to manage and work the equipment to move with him, along

with ambulance as it will probably need more than ordinary transport, plus

aircraft equiped to deal with the specialist medical equipment.


After all that the patient comes to the same inevitable end only in a

different country.


If the equipment goes the hospital will be unable to treat other temporary

emergencies cases that arrive, and could be saved by by using it?

originally posted by: Flavian

originally posted by: Irishhaf
The kid is probably toast, but they had an air ambulance, and a hospital and doctors willing to continue treatment, so why block the transport.

Instead they insist on telling the parents let us pull the plug on your kid, I read last time this kids name came up that they didn't want to let the kid go because transport might kill him.

Well fine, your going to pull the plug anyways let the parents at least have this last moment with the kid trying to do everything possible to save him rather than tell them tough this is it.

There is a lot being said about this case without anyone looking at the facts. For anyone interested, please look at this local source below regarding Alfie Evans's condition.

What exactly is Alfie Evans' condsition?

As you can see, his brain is rotting away. His cortex has already gone. His father has said he is breathing today after they turend the life support off last night but as any medic could tell you, that is the bodies naturaly reaction in such circumstances. Breathing requires minimal brain function / activity over a short period but this will start to dwindle today.

The Pope sticking his two pennies in has not been helpful at all. In very simple terms, the hospital in Rome is not offering anything different. There is no other treatment he could have, nothing experimental. They would simply be putting him though the pain and distress of moving him just to prolong his suffering. If there was some hope, i would back his parents to the hilt but there really isn't in this case.

National health care knows best.

Some # head paper pusher won't let you take your dying kid home.

He wouldn't get to see his family if I had a say.

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: Irishhaf

If he is already effectivly dead, what pain and suffering is he going to feel?
The kid is effectivly dead already, so what exactly does the govt gain by preventing the parents from moving him?

He cannot be moved without all the expensive medical equipment he is

currently using just to keep him alive plus it will be needed someone medical

who knows how to manage and work the equipment to move with him, along

with ambulance as it will probably need more than ordinary transport, plus

aircraft equiped to deal with the specialist medical equipment.


After all that the patient comes to the same inevitable end only in a

different country.


If the equipment goes the hospital will be unable to treat other temporary

emergencies cases that arrive, and could be saved by by using it?

Why is that a problem?

Then there is a deficiency of services on the states part, pay more #in taxes.

originally posted by: burgerbuddy

Why is that a problem?

Then there is a deficiency of services on the states part, pay more #in taxes.

It only becomes a problem when the person using it cannot exist without

it? When the machine is what is doing the actual living

This is a sad case, but here's the judgements from the High Court and the Supreme Court. There's a bit of technical legal argument, but the context and the case are plain to see and understand. The High Court judgement has more detail and outlines the medical case in a lot of detail.

High Court - opens in a PDF
Supreme Court - opens in a PDF

On one side have the people who want to keep a dead kid alive, while on the other you have the medical profession who want a dead kid to die because it will have NO quality of life.

PS - I would point to Alder Hays Children's Hospital website, but it's currently being hacked and is down at 1330 GMT... Alder Hay

It should be the parents decision. Even if we don't agree with it.

That being said, I Don't agree with keeping the kid alive.

But this state intervention is sickening. It's right in line with the Marxist Plan to tell us we are not responsible enough to be parents. They want to destroy the traditional nuclear family which has been the foundation of our entire society. Our civilization is in danger if our society is meddled with. Not every man needs a wife and kids, but it should be the norm and not the exception. I would be happier that way but for external reasons it didn't work out that way for me.


I believe it should be the parents choice but I also think any parent should receive some minimal counseling, as in, advice and outside perspectives. It might seem counter intuitive to allow your child to die. But would you really be keeping them alive for their own good? Or for your own comfort and self satisfaction? Are they sacrifing their own comfort for the sake of their child? Or are they just doing what is easier for them?


The same attitude can be applied when someone dies. Are you crying because it's not fair to the person who died that they didn't get to live longer? Or are you crying because you will be less happy with them gone? It's a perfectly valid reason to cry. It's ok to cry for yourself, but I just think it's healthier to acknowledge who you are crying for and why you are sad and upset. It's not for them because they are doing just fine. You are the one in pain. And you are worth crying for. Of course there are circumstances where a person died in a horrible way or suffered a long time before their death and you might legitimately be sad that another person went through that, but that's seperate from the person's actual death. Their death isn't the reason in that case. If you are crying over their suffering, that occurred during life, if you are crying over their death, you are crying for yourself at that point.

originally posted by: rickymouse
The kids brain is pretty toast, he will never have a life where he can do much. I cannot see keeping him alive anymore. It is sad but if every kid with a major problem were to be kept going, the only ones benefiting are the medical professionals.

These people should have another kid, one that doesn't have a major health problem. Let the poor kid move on. What kind of life will this kid have, the parents will be so consumed with taking care of him that they won't have time or money to have normal kids.

I feel sorry for the parents but at the same time, not all babies can survive. Let the kid go to a better place instead of making it keep suffering. I hope these people have some normal kids to bring up.

I know a few different people who have kids that have major problems. One kid just died, the parents lives were ruined, he had a good job and his wife did too. They both had to quit and blew all their money on their kid that died anyway. I don't know what I would do if I had a kid that bad, they tried hard to provide for their kid, but it ruined their future. They are hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt now and probably can't afford to have another kid. The father had to go work close to the children's hospital but his job now keeps him far away from his family. They are nice people, I hope he can get his job back around here again.

These people protesting should stop, I bet they would not want to take care of a kid like that for many years.

Oh, those idiots are doing a lot doing more than just protesting. They've been doing things like harassing the staff and even threatening to break into the hospital.