The missing cosmonaut

I only found about this today and have just started reading about it more. Wanted to put it out there and see peoples opinion on it.

Myself believes it's possible this cosmonaut could have been real...and the russiana didn't want to claim another failure. The tape is chilling i admit.

I foynd tgis because i have become a big astronomy and space travel enthusiast recently. Even got my first scope ☺

Anyway here is the link

lost cosmonaut

originally posted by: Ghostsinthefog
I only found about this today and have just started reading about it more. Wanted to put it out there and see peoples opinion on it.

Myself believes it's possible this cosmonaut could have been real...and the russiana didn't want to claim another failure. The tape is chilling i admit.

I foynd tgis because i have become a big astronomy and space travel enthusiast recently. Even got my first scope ☺

Anyway here is the link

lost cosmonaut

I have read about this some years ago and there seems to be a split in opinion on how authentic the situation was, the two brothers in question seem to be held in high regard with what they where doing at the time and I certainly would not put it past Russia or any nation for the matter to cover up such an event.

If it is true what a horrible way to meet your maker burning up in such a way.

I guess unless some paper are released or other information comes to the forefront you have to make up your own mind on the evidence presented.

Good idea getting a telescope for your astronomy interest, I was a very keen Astronomer and advice I would give is try and learn the night sky rather than getting use to auto find GPS scopes, star counting to objects and setting circles will set you up for a lifetime of discovery, also do not underestimate what you can find and see with a half decent set of Bino's..


RA

I read somewhere that in the recordings of the brothers the dialog does not follow the soviet protocol at the time and have grammatical errors.

Anyways, the Soviets had a history of removing people from history that don't look good in the official narrative, they changed many pictures to delete people that felt from grace, there is one picture that originally had like 5 people with Stalin and after him got rid of them one by one they were removed in each occasion from the picture until only Stalin remained.

Valentin Bondarenko was one of the original cosmonauts and he died in training, his death was covered up and he was deleted from the group photo of the initial six cosmonauts after the pic was already been published. Later it was said that this group of 6 photo was also doctored from a photo containing 16 people.

www.jamesoberg.com...
www.wired.com...

originally posted by: Ghostsinthefog
I only found about this today and have just started reading about it more. Wanted to put it out there and see peoples opinion on it.

Myself believes it's possible this cosmonaut could have been real...and the russiana didn't want to claim another failure. The tape is chilling i admit.

I foynd tgis because i have become a big astronomy and space travel enthusiast recently. Even got my first scope ☺

Anyway here is the link

lost cosmonaut

To me, this sounds as an absolutely shameless lie, from the same page:

"During the Cold War-era space race, the Soviet Union conducted most of its rocket tests in secrecy so as to throw off US intelligence. Unlike NASA, which was very public about its proceedings, the Soviet Union wasn't even open within its own country about its research and rocket tests. "


Then how come we all know about the Sputnik and all previous and later attempts? And we do know of Layka too, what secrecy? We know about Vladimir Komarov, what secrecy? We also know about deaths in America at about the same time, are you trying to make a point or something else?

a reply to: WarriorMH

Have you not answered your own question here? Those are the success stories that came out of the USSR, he is referring to the stories that didn't make it. And i remember reading about it too. Yuri Gagarin was a true space hero but he also fought hard for the recognition of his comrades as the USSR was in fact SECERET about sharing the (in their eye's failures) of his comrades, he saw them (rightfully so) as true hero's that paved the way for our modern space astronauts and did manage in the end to honor some of them after all, but not if the USSR had its way, again Yuri is the real Hero here.

Then the hole story around the N1, brilliant engineers that did the impossible had to witness their own work blow up time after time because of a poorly designed KORD System again because of secrecy, they (scientist) where not able (allowed) to give their story and demand in vain for more time to test. Where told to just accept the high risk of failure. These are not shameless lies but well documented facts by now, would be nice to meet a Russian that is willing to actually tell how Russia is explaining this to its own population(you i think), from your reaction it seems like you have a lot to learn about the history of Russian space flight, but oc i could be totally wrong, in that case please enlighten me..

To OP: i remember reading about this story some time ago, but never heard the recording of the female. Thanks for sharing that, hope i can find a audio source with more similar material. Wish you good luck and lots of fun with your new telescope, let us know what you find up there!

The Soviets were guilty of airbrushing certain undesirable personalities out of their historic photos and there were also cover-ups of deaths during the Space Race. But not as far as I know in Earth Orbit.

If you are interested I also mentioned the stories in a thread a while back. Secrets of the Space Race

Fellow ATS member and space historian, JimOberg, has a free pdf on his website Cosmonauts or Cosmo-nots covering the myths surrounding the missing cosmonaut tales.

These recordings have a pretty high degree of doubt cast on them for a few different reasons.

1) Several were taken during a time when we know the Soviets were still using dogs and dummies.

2) They were supposedly from spacecraft headed to deep space, using rockets that weren't capable of achieving deep space travel. Further, some of the recordings are taken at a time when the rockets in use weren't capable of carrying a manned spacecraft, period.

3) The "woman cosmonaut" doesn't appear to be very fluent in Russian, and isn't using the correct radio procedures that were in place at the time.

4) The West wasn't shy about reporting the Soviets successes; it's illogical that with all the tracking stations in The West, nobody else produced recordings that matched what the brothers had gotten and then released them to show Soviet failures.

originally posted by: WarriorMH

...Then how come we all know about the Sputnik and all previous and later attempts? And we do know of Layka too, what secrecy? We know about Vladimir Komarov, what secrecy? We also know about deaths in America at about the same time, are you trying to make a point or something else?

As 'Dimens' mentioned above, the USSR was very open about its space program's successes, but less so about its failures.

There was the Soyuz 11 tragedy in 1971, for example. The Soviets could not hide the fact that the three cosmonauts suffocated on re-enrty due to a valve failure because the missoion to that point (the mission to Salyut 1 -- the first space station) was very highly publicized as being very successful, and the world was waiting for them to come home. And it was a succeesful mission until the re-entry tragedy that killed the cosmonauts.

While the deaths were public record, the USSR waited for two years to even acknowledge how they died. They kept the cause of their deaths (due to a technical failure of the Soyuz re-entry vehicle) hidden, and may have continued to do so if it weren't The U.S. requesting information about the Soyuz 11/Salyut 1 mission because they were concerned that the cosmonauts prolonged time in orbit about the Salyut space station caused fatal heatlh issues (The U.S. was concerned because of their upcoming Skylab space station missions).


And then there was the launch pad explosion of a test of a rocket/missile in 1960 in Baikonur that killed up to 100 people, including Mitrofan Ivanovich Nedelin, who was the head of the Soviets Misslie and Rocket program at the time (the disaster is known as the "Nedelin Catastophe").

There was no Soviet acknowledgement of the disaster for decades, although there were rumors about it from sources in the 1960s and 1970s. It wasn't until 1989 -- near the time of the end of the Soviet Union -- that they acknowledge that the disaster did in fact occur.

originally posted by: WarriorMH

originally posted by: Ghostsinthefog
I only found about this today and have just started reading about it more. Wanted to put it out there and see peoples opinion on it.

Myself believes it's possible this cosmonaut could have been real...and the russiana didn't want to claim another failure. The tape is chilling i admit.

I foynd tgis because i have become a big astronomy and space travel enthusiast recently. Even got my first scope ☺

Anyway here is the link

lost cosmonaut

To me, this sounds as an absolutely shameless lie, from the same page:

"During the Cold War-era space race, the Soviet Union conducted most of its rocket tests in secrecy so as to throw off US intelligence. Unlike NASA, which was very public about its proceedings, the Soviet Union wasn't even open within its own country about its research and rocket tests. "

Then how come we all know about the Sputnik and all previous and later attempts? And we do know of Layka too, what secrecy? We know about Vladimir Komarov, what secrecy? We also know about deaths in America at about the same time, are you trying to make a point or something else?

You NEVER heard of a Soviet failure, and we now know there were many. NASA's failures were public. When a rocket blew up, we all saw it on TV. You never saw a Soviet rocket blow up. You never saw a Soviet rocket launch. We were told after the fact if the launches were a success. We saw every NASA launch as it happened. Are you trying to change history? It's obvious you weren't there.

a reply to: schuyler

Oh well i'm sorry, i wasn't born back then, i'm sorry i don't know everything. Every time i say something on this site everyone attempts to put me down, what's the deal with you guys? i'm sorry i'm stupid unlike you so let me be

Why are people here so offensive? Are you even able to discuss things without damning any newcomer or what's the deal here?

a reply to: WarriorMH

But you have been on ATS for a while (2015?). The topic has been raised more than once, but maybe not in the past couple of years.

In any case, here's a pretty even handed (and, ummm, detailed) look. From ATS member James Oberg.
www.jamesoberg.com...

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: WarriorMH

But you have been on ATS for a while (2015?). The topic has been raised more than once, but maybe not in the past couple of years.

In any case, here's a pretty even handed (and, ummm, detailed) look. From ATS member James Oberg.
www.jamesoberg.com...

I was 14 back then, it doesn't matter, i was looking for something to do while i was unable to live the life i was used to. You are someone impossible to approach to.

You are a show up, and you're not as smart as you think you are, and i told you before, you talked about guns and the reason i'm here to begin with is guns, i saved myself with one of those you think are only for show. Look at that right eye and tell me about that deep scar and i'll tell you all about how it feels being hit like that, you know nothing but you have an opinion on things you never seen before or live on your own.

I don't believe in you, you are another adult that fails to 'know' but think he knows it all because of age and lack of experience, you don't try to teach me anything, you don't know what i feel or have inside me, i don't even have equal eyes, everyone can see that

I'm not dumb, stop treating my like that, everyone here think they are very smart as they act like fools, you make no difference, have some descence you all

I know there are nice people here, but constantly i find people that every thing i say they try to put me down, i am disappointed, this is not what i thought it would be, and you Phage have shown me more than once that you as an adult are a shame. Right from the beginning you assumed i was a fool and treated me like that, why? I replied to you in a bad way because you are wrong, you don't have a clue about guns or anything related and yet that's the only reason i'm alive and you still feel the need to treat me bad, what's the deal? Is everyone here just looking for a way to hurt everyone that can be hurt?

is it likely? hell yeah but the tapes (which you can hear online) don't actually help.
its grim listening but if top bods from the kgb and fbi didnt deem it plausible, at a time where political point scoring was at its height, it kinda kills it.
when i first heard about the lost cosmonauts there was also a moonshot theory.
as the years have passed that appears to have been erased, probably to make the story more plausible.

one of those we will likely never find out.
putin's not exactly truthful and its possible boris yeltsin ate the records after a vodka session.

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

so pretty much they spoke when they had no chance to hide it anymore. although i find it curious they colaborated with the US to prevent possible deaths, as you said. Even back then i think they were not cruel animals after all.

All my russian friends are very kind people so i find it hard to see them any other way or as 'evil soviets' but i guess that's my point of view so far

Proper protocols and language?? If you had a pretty good idea it was going to be a one way trip would you send your best and brightest?? If I recall most Soviet stuff was automatic or ground controlled. Just needed a full sized monkey to go for the ride.

originally posted by: WarriorMH
a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

All my russian friends are very kind people so i find it hard to see them any other way or as 'evil soviets' but i guess that's my point of view so far

My American friends are good and kind people (as is the American me, I like to think). However, that doesn't stop people from feeling that the American government can act "evilly" at times.

Besides, I don't think the USSR hiding space failures is exactly "evil". It may not be right, and is all about propaganda and controlling the message, but it isn't necessarily evil. I'm sure there are U.S. failures (although maybe not space failures or failures with manned spaceflight) that were hidden.

Having said that, the U.S. in general is more open than the USSR was, mostly due to having an independent press, rather than all public information coming from state-run media.

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

I like to think that people from any country and their government are two completely different things. I don't hate Americans but i also don't like what the US government does in some cases, like invading other countries and all that.

Having said that, the U.S. in general is more open than the USSR was, mostly due to having an independent press, rather than all public information coming from state-run media.

Yeah i also believe this, is very clear how Russia manages things and that one aspect if part of how the government works, which i don't particularly like to be honest

originally posted by: Dimens
a reply to: WarriorMH

Have you not answered your own question here? Those are the success stories that came out of the USSR, he is referring to the stories that didn't make it. And i remember reading about it too. Yuri Gagarin was a true space hero but he also fought hard for the recognition of his comrades as the USSR was in fact SECERET about sharing the (in their eye's failures) of his comrades, he saw them (rightfully so) as true hero's that paved the way for our modern space astronauts and did manage in the end to honor some of them after all, but not if the USSR had its way, again Yuri is the real Hero here.

Then the hole story around the N1, brilliant engineers that did the impossible had to witness their own work blow up time after time because of a poorly designed KORD System again because of secrecy, they (scientist) where not able (allowed) to give their story and demand in vain for more time to test. Where told to just accept the high risk of failure. These are not shameless lies but well documented facts by now, would be nice to meet a Russian that is willing to actually tell how Russia is explaining this to its own population(you i think), from your reaction it seems like you have a lot to learn about the history of Russian space flight, but oc i could be totally wrong, in that case please enlighten me..

To OP: i remember reading about this story some time ago, but never heard the recording of the female. Thanks for sharing that, hope i can find a audio source with more similar material. Wish you good luck and lots of fun with your new telescope, let us know what you find up there!

I'm not Russian, i do have lots of russian friends though, you may not believe this but it kind of never came to my mind to ask before, i don't know what they think or know about all of those failures, i didn't even think about that before.

I can see that i pretty much ignored it all up until now, i wasn't interested in things like that at all for most of my life, so there

Didn't came here to brag or be a know it all, i came here looking for some answers and i'm still looking