Teen turns down plea deal for 25 years in prison, gets 65 years instead

originally posted by: Oldtimer2
Just like in Calif,commit a crime where a death occurs,charged with the murder,even if you were only the driver,all hels liable

Wow, it's only the case like that in the UK if your own actions are shown to be complicit, either planning the crime in advance, or failing to stop someone harming another when you had the chance.
I support the way it is here...people are responsible for their individual choices and actions.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
65 years

So this black kid who was 15 at the time was in a group of 5 that broke into two houses. They fled the police and one of them named Washington had a .38 and fired at the police who ended up being killed by the police.

This seems like a typically event with no real surprises here.

The surprise is Lakeith Smith, now 18 one of the members in the group ended up with sentence to serve back to back: 30 years for murder, 15 years for burglary and 10 years each for two theft convictions. Under Alabama's accomplice liability law he got 30 years for murder because the cop shot one of his buddies and so he murdered his buddy.

Am I the only one who sees something really wrong with all this?

you open fire on law enforcement, you have lost your right to a fair anything. literally the worst thing you can do.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

By not reporting it to try and stop it he aided in the crime being committed. Discharge of the firearm may not have been done by him but could have been prevented by him. Same as if you drive me to a bank that I plan to rob and you knew about it...you'd be charged as an accomplice which would,carry the same penalty as the crime I committed. At least that's the logic behind those laws. I don't feel sorry for those who make the choice to be a criminal and commit crimes against others or others property. The only crimes I don't stand behind enforcement of are crimes against self...which things like drug use fall into.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
you open fire on law enforcement, you have lost your right to a fair anything.

What? I support fair trial by jury, and each individual charged with their own crimes, not the crimes of others if they were not in conspiracy.

originally posted by: Oldtimer2
Just like in Calif,commit a crime where a death occurs,charged with the murder,even if you were only the driver,all hels liable

I agree..the old driver accomplice thing, but when the cops do the killing and you are charged with murder.,..lol

a reply to: SlapMonkey

I think we agree, and are (quite literally) just arguing semantics about the specifics of the law itself.

not if they get themselves killed because of the stupidity of one of them choosing to aim a firearm at a police officer.

That's where I think the defense attorney dropped the ball bigly. It makes my brain itch that two guys can rob a gas station, a cop walks in and shoots one of them (the armed one), and the unarmed second robber can be charged with murder?

On it's face I don't have a problem with the felony murder rule. I think it supports the (supposed) sanctity of life that we're supposed to have, and the idea that "don't commit violent felonies that end in death because you'll go down for it" isn't one I have a hard time getting behind. What I have a hard time getting behind is that the felony murder rule is typically sentenced more harshly than any other type of murder except 1st degree murder.

How somebody who is unarmed and just in the room at the time that somebody else murders somebody can be sentenced more harshly than somebody who actually killed somebody is a head-scratcher for me.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy

originally posted by: TzarChasm
you open fire on law enforcement, you have lost your right to a fair anything.

What? I support fair trial by jury, and each individual charged with their own crimes, not the crimes of others if they were not in conspiracy.

no conspiracy. if the thug didnt want someone to die, he shouldnt have discharged his weapon.

This is a pretty common law. We have it in Ohio as well. If someone dies during the commission of a felony then you are charged with murder. I actually support this law since commission of a felony is required to have it come into affect. It gets dangerous idiots off our streets.

What if your daughter was killed during a high speed chase when some moron is running from he law? Whether it is the cop car or the criminals car that killed her the moron running from the cops is the proximate cause of the death.

Lock him up.

meanwhile, a woman kills 2 of her kids, and husband, premeditated, gets 15 years and mental health recommendations...not in a parallel universe....

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy

originally posted by: TzarChasm
you open fire on law enforcement, you have lost your right to a fair anything.

What? I support fair trial by jury, and each individual charged with their own crimes, not the crimes of others if they were not in conspiracy.

no conspiracy. if the thug didnt want someone to die, he shouldnt have discharged his weapon.

At best you'd get a manslaughter charge for that in the UK, but I doubt even that would stick.
Certainly wouldn't get a murder charge here because a cop shot your mate to death while you were up to no good.

EDIT
For non UK members, manslaughter is basically choosing a course of action which most normal people would expect to result in death of another person. A crime of negligence and less intent.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Do you think his lawyer said, you will get 65 years if you go to court, and this kid, who already showed bad judgement, said, ‘nah, I will go to court’.

Stupid is as stilupid does....

a reply to: Metallicus

i think if you kill someone, fundamentally, by laws of reality, you killed that person.

saying a daughter killed during a police chase gives 0 context.
here the purp responsible for having the gun, got killed. the other perp who wasn't armed didn't instigate the officer into shooting the other perp.

originally posted by: SocratesJohnson

Do you think his lawyer said, you will get 65 years if you go to court, and this kid, who already showed bad judgement, said, ‘nah, I will go to court’.

Stupid is as stilupid does....

That is why you have a lawyer

a reply to: Xtrozero

Sounds about right. Break into a house with a group of people, one of which has a gun, they were up to no good, and lucky they didnt get a gut full of #00.

originally posted by: SocratesJohnson
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Do you think his lawyer said, you will get 65 years if you go to court, and this kid, who already showed bad judgement, said, ‘nah, I will go to court’.

Stupid is as stilupid does....

I don't know what to think, the system in the US is so different.
We don't have 'plea bargaining' in the UK, you are either charged for a crime or not, based solely on evidence. There is an element of unnoficial bargaining at a police level with minor crime (accepting caution/fixed penalty etc) but court, no.
65 years though for his mate getting shot dead by a cop?! I'm glad I live in the UK, but I respect your right as an independent nation to be as harsh as you like with your laws.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy

originally posted by: TzarChasm
you open fire on law enforcement, you have lost your right to a fair anything.

What? I support fair trial by jury, and each individual charged with their own crimes, not the crimes of others if they were not in conspiracy.

no conspiracy. if the thug didnt want someone to die, he shouldnt have discharged his weapon.

Did you read the OP? Smith the 15 year old did not shoot anyone.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Plea bargaining happens after you've been charged and trial has been set, and it does happen in the UK.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy

originally posted by: TzarChasm
you open fire on law enforcement, you have lost your right to a fair anything.

What? I support fair trial by jury, and each individual charged with their own crimes, not the crimes of others if they were not in conspiracy.

What?! The five CONSPIRED to rob some houses and in doing so exchanged gunfire with law enforcement. The defendant smiled after having been sentenced. He should have taken the plea. What an a$$hole.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Plea bargaining happens after you've been charged and trial has been set, and it does happen in the UK.

Not like in the US though, only major cases to be fair.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
65 years

Am I the only one who sees something really wrong with all this?

Yes. What’s wrong is that he didn’t take the plea deal.