Watchers Union

I had a funny idea the other day. You know how the media (including the Internet) is pretty much constantly monitoring your media consumption and online shopping activities so they can more accurately target you for specific ads, and so on? Well, that makes your data/metrics-- your choices -- worth something. Namely MONEY.

Of course, one person's data probably isn't worth a lot, but a data from a lot of people is definitely worth more. So I thought, wouldn't it be interesting to form a kind of "Watcher's Union," where people get together and demand payment for their valuable data which is now basically being taken and used for free. After all, you can't use somebody's image or creative work without their permission and payment. Why not just ordinary folks making decisions about what shows they like, or what kind of soap they'll buy?

I figure that people could join a Union, and then have representatives talk with TV and Internet Networks and providers so that a people would get a fair and reasonable payment (or discount) for their data. It could be a powerful tool for the common media consumer, and actually do a lot to inform and steer networks toward what most people would like to see or shop for. An individual's viewing and shopping habits would be automatically monitored, and they would be compensated accordingly.

Just an idea. A billion dollar idea I just gave away free on the Internet.

I spend about a hundred bucks a year for a company that scrubs my name and information from the internet and I don't use social media, but they still know everything about me and ads follow me. I also delete all my 'cookies' once a a month and don't allow 3rd part cookies.

I despise these companies that use us for their own profit.

Your biggest problem will be that you often times consent to data collection and tracking by accepting site cookies or other agreements necessary for using certain websites so you may not have legal recourse.

I like your idea.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

Just an idea. A billion dollar idea I just gave away free on the Internet.

Not really. The reason is that unlike your own labor, you are not in control of your data and no one else has to seek your permission to grab it. A lot of it is in the public domain. You can certainly be more proactive and do what you can to reduce the collection. You can use an incognito window, for example, disable cookies, use ad blockers, and a host of other methods. You can get the government to strengthen your privacy rights like the EU now has the "right to be forgotten." But form a union? I don't think so. I've never seen a union of any kind that does not put itself before its members. It is a step backwards.

Look at ATS. It "violates T&C" to use an ad blocker. If you insist, you can't fully use the site. In some cases, you can't use a site at all. The reason s obvious. It affects their revenue.

wrong site to bring up unions... most people here seem to be republican and all republicans are anti-union.

originally posted by: schuyler
Not really. The reason is that unlike your own labor, you are not in control of your data and no one else has to seek your permission to grab it. A lot of it is in the public domain.

Well, that's one of the first things I suppose we should do with the union. Start lobbying to protect or possibly create laws regarding the ownership rights of our individual preferences and data.

"What really matters is what you like, not what you are like." -- High Fidelity

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: schuyler
Not really. The reason is that unlike your own labor, you are not in control of your data and no one else has to seek your permission to grab it. A lot of it is in the public domain.

Well, that's one of the first things I suppose we should do with the union. Start lobbying to protect or possibly create laws regarding the ownership rights of our individual preferences and data.

Begs the question. There is no union. You must address how you are going to do it before you address what it can do. The only thing close right now is the EFF.

originally posted by: schuyler
Begs the question. There is no union. You must address how you are going to do it before you address what it can do. The only thing close right now is the EFF.

Don't know. How does anyone go about organizing folks who are being used to make someone profits without their knowledge or permission? Maybe pattern it after the Consumers Union. I suppose people would volunteer, and then have apps track their media usage to they were properly reimbursed. You would also have people agree to change their viewing or buying habits if necessary in order to exert proper influence where and when it is needed to facilitate compliance.

I don't know the practicalities of it, which is why I floated the idea here. I can imagine, however, someone doing something like it in the future. Your clicks are worth a lot of money to other people. Why shouldn't you, the clicker, benefit?

When it gets so we charge each other for existing, like it pretty much is now, I'm going to just give up and go Marxist.

Call me comrade.

a reply to: Blue Shift

I like your idea and you can do anything in this country if you have the money and know the right asses to kiss.

Approach it from a corporate, capitalistic platform, register with the FCC and go.....

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: schuyler
Begs the question. There is no union. You must address how you are going to do it before you address what it can do. The only thing close right now is the EFF.

I don't know the practicalities of it, which is why I floated the idea here. I can imagine, however, someone doing something like it in the future. Your clicks are worth a lot of money to other people. Why shouldn't you, the clicker, benefit?

And that's the crux of the matter. The idea is ripe for abuse. Why should I be paid for my clicks? I could make a living that way clicking on everything. The thing is, companies pay to advertise already, and barring any thing in place to stop them, you can't prevent them from compiling data. Here you are on ATS, where it is 'company illegal,' i.e.: against T&C, to implement your own protections. Now here's what ATS would say. "You get to come on this site for free. In return, we must support the costs of this site with ad revenue. That is the exchange here: Free access in exchange for ads. Now you're telling me you want a cut just because you click (Really: In exchange for collecting data.) OK, then we'll charge a subscription fee for membership here.

There are quite a few sites today that make this trade-off. If you want an ad free, tracking free, data free access, pay this subscription amount and all that goes away. You're wanting a cut just because you're here. I'm suggesting tat your data is really not that valuable. It's only valuable in the aggregate.

originally posted by: schuyler
I'm suggesting tat your data is really not that valuable. It's only valuable in the aggregate.

That's exactly what I said in my initial post. Hence the union. It's not that different than a worker's union. Individually, very few of us have skills that would guarantee our job security. There's nothing stopping a company from hiring cheaper labor. But if people organize and agree to follow what the union agrees is the best course of action via voting, then they have an opportunity to benefit. Organizing as a group gives you a voice and power that you would not have an an individual. Could the providers get their data elsewhere? Sure. You can also get water from the local river, but if you want clean water from the tap, then you pay a little more for it. I see it as the same thing.

And I'm saying you have nothing to bargain for. If a union goes on strike, the members withhold their labor and potentially the company fails as a result. The labor is the valuable skill with which to negotiate. But in this case you don't even have an organization to negotiate with. In fact, you don't even know who is gathering data and who is not nor any good way to measure its worth. How do you go on strike against ATS? Withhold your login? I suppose that could potentially make ATS suffer if enough people did it, but ATS isn't even the one gathering most of the data. You are wanting to start some sort of social movement where you can't even define your terms. so go ahead and do it, but just "putting the idea out there" and expecting someone else to run with it is pretty useless. It's not as if people are jumping on the cause here, and a big reason for that is that it is ill-defined and uninspiring.

a reply to: Blue Shift


It begs the question (at least in my tiny mind) when will it be illegal to provide misleading information to advertisers?

They spend good money to provide services that enables us to shop more effectively. When will it become illegal to provide misleading information that costs them unnecessarily?

a reply to: Blue Shift

I think this is actually a great idea. The sneaky bastards pimping out our personal information owe us more than just money. But financial compensation at least opens the door for more transparency and leverage.

S & F

I love the ideology of this idea. Who would have ever thought at the beginning that anyone on the internet would lose all possession of their privacy?
Facebook et al is a disease for millions. Destroying lives not to mention all the porn addictions that did not exist before the internet.
Time we took back control of our lives from the deceitful internet.
Yeah-great thinking.

a reply to: Blue Shift

I think this is related to the idea of digital property rights. Your data should be your property and as such you should get compensation for it's use.

But that would require a different architecture for the internet than we have now. So like your personal data would belong to an encrypted blockchain, then you give rights to how or who uses your data. It would be like setting preferences in your browsing software giving places like ATS the right to use certain kinds of data, for compensation or perhaps to waive fees or something like that.

The 'internet bill of rights' idea has nothing to do with this by the way, it's something else entirely and addresses none of the issues of your digital property rights.