Flying Rod UFO's, The book should still be open

originally posted by: Thoseaintcontrails
The night videos still aren't credible because most of them are pointed at a light.

Videos pointing at a light are useless, I'm not talking about those. I will try to find some of what I'm thinking about.

originally posted by: Thoseaintcontrails
This video seems to be shot with a fast shutter speed and high frame rate.

Not to me. We have, again, a dark background, so the camera, to be able to show it, needs to use a slower shutter speed than if it was a bright background.

originally posted by: Thoseaintcontrails
Go pro 3 from 2013 and you can clearly see the greater detail and lesser motion blur at the higher frame rate/slow motion. The note 5 is 2015 technology with better quality / higher resolution.

Newer technology doesn't mean better technology, specially when comparing a camera that is made to be used exactly like that and a phone that also has a camera, but a camera with a smaller sensor and worse lens.

The shutter speed has to be faster to catch fast movements with less motion blur. No one designs a camera with preset slow shutter speeds to blur or distort an image, that would be ridiculous.

I agree it would be ridiculous to do that, but shutter speed is the most important part in capturing an image, if you use a shutter speed that is too fast you will get a black image, if you use a shutter speed that is too slow you will get a white image. Without knowing the real characteristics of the camera we cannot really know what it is capable of.

If you do want to make a test (I still don't know if any of the videos you posted was done by yourself or if you just use videos from other people) you should try to control the conditions of the scene and know what settings the camera is using.

PS: I found out that the Galaxy Note 5 has "slow motion modes" that film at higher frame rates, I suppose that's what you have been talking about, but I haven't seen any reference to a 240 fps mode, only to a maximum of 120 fps.

originally posted by: Thoseaintcontrails
I find it amusing that the monsterquest claim rods are moths because moths are some of the slower flying insects compared to others, especially with the larger and wider wings than compared to something like a fly.

That's why I usually ignore those things. If they want to prove or disprove something they should do it honestly, with the closest conditions possible.

But, having said that, there are some smaller and faster moths, like the hawk-moth, that looks and flies like a hummingbird.

originally posted by: ArMaP

originally posted by: Thoseaintcontrails
youtu.be... The flies like in this video look nothing like the rods and they are at probably around 30 fps and a normal preset shutter speed.

The camera doesn't record in slow motion, the playing can be done in slow motion with any video, you just have to play it slower than it was filmed. As for using a slow shutter speed, as I don't have any video camera I cannot try it for myself, I only have a photo camera that has a video mode but it's fully automatic.

Would there be the same amount of frames at 30 fps compared to 120 or 240 fps? If it is capturing more frames while recording in slow motion setting, would that mean that the shutter speed is faster to enable it to capture the higher amount of frames? How would it capture more frames with a slow exposure or shutter speed?
I think most smartphones have a fully automatic preset shutter speed when recording at a higher frame rate. I cannot zoom or change the speed on my phone when I record in slow motion.

originally posted by: ArMaP

originally posted by: Thoseaintcontrails
I find it amusing that the monsterquest claim rods are moths because moths are some of the slower flying insects compared to others, especially with the larger and wider wings than compared to something like a fly.

That's why I usually ignore those things. If they want to prove or disprove something they should do it honestly, with the closest conditions possible.

But, having said that, there are some smaller and faster moths, like the hawk-moth, that looks and flies like a hummingbird.

I have looked at a lot of hummingbirds and hawk moths on video and none out of focus appear as the rod that I recorded in the moth comparison video. Most all birds and insects have somewhat erratic movements in flight whether they are in focus or out. When rods fly, they can often be observed with perfectly straight bodies and they often fly in straight flight lines. A bird or insect will move up and down between wing flaps. I appreciate your comment on the monsterquest episode.

There are exceptions such as high gliding birds or birds very close to the camera. Birds close to the camera do not have narrow straight bodies, even when out of focus and caught gliding without wing flap.

originally posted by: ArMaP

originally posted by: Thoseaintcontrails
What would you consider evidence to believe, a physical speciman?

That would be a good start.

If a dead physical specimen was retrieved and video evidence was released, how would we determine whether or not it was real? Anything can be faked these days including video. The only way we really know anything is to see it in real time with our own eyes. Eyewitness evidence is often the least verifiable or trusted in a court or scientific setting because of errors in perception. Even if the evidence is peer reviewed, we are relying on trusting the majority just because a high number of people had the same opinion on a given observation.

originally posted by: Thoseaintcontrails
Would there be the same amount of frames at 30 fps compared to 120 or 240 fps?

No, faster frame rates have more frames, but it's easy to fake a higher frame rate by duplicating frames, so it's easy for the phone software to film at 120, duplicate the frames, change the duration of each frame to half the original setting and save the resulting file as a 240 fps video, while in reality it's only a 120 fps.

If it is capturing more frames while recording in slow motion setting, would that mean that the shutter speed is faster to enable it to capture the higher amount of frames? How would it capture more frames with a slow exposure or shutter speed?

It all depends of how fast the shutter speed is. At 120 fps the maximum possible shutter speed is 1/120, but you can see in the video below that a shutter speed of 1/125 is still slow for the faster moving objects.

I think most smartphones have a fully automatic preset shutter speed when recording at a higher frame rate. I cannot zoom or change the speed on my phone when I record in slow motion.

As I said before, shutter speed also affects how much light enters the camera, so if we are filming a scene that is not shining a strong light into the camera lens (indirect light can also be strong, like filming something with a white wall behind, in direct sunlight) then the camera, if in an automatic mode, will, probably, choose first the aperture to use, as that's what affects the most how much light enters the camera. Some cameras have half manual modes, in which the user may choose the shutter speed while the camera chooses the aperture (shutter priority) or a mode in which the user may choose the aperture and the camera the shutter speed (aperture priority). A full manual mode lets the user choose everything.

Can you change the shutter speed when not filming in slow motion mode? If you can, try to film something at the 1/125 and higher (if possible), to see how much it affects fast moving objects.

originally posted by: ArMaP

originally posted by: Thoseaintcontrails
Would there be the same amount of frames at 30 fps compared to 120 or 240 fps?

No, faster frame rates have more frames, but it's easy to fake a higher frame rate by duplicating frames, so it's easy for the phone software to film at 120, duplicate the frames, change the duration of each frame to half the original setting and save the resulting file as a 240 fps video, while in reality it's only a 120 fps.

I think you are right on this, however, from my recording experience, 120 and playing back at just slow motion simulation of 240 fps is more than enough time to observe any known insect or bird. My opinion may change if it can be shown where daytime insects transform into rods. For example, recording insects at normal speed where they appear as rods, but when the video goes into slow motion, the rods are clearly shown to be insects. This would be the ultimate debunk video.

a reply to: Thoseaintcontrails

martin stubbs of NASA shuttle ufo video fame spoke about another anomaly he saw. they were colored very fast moving rods for lack of a better definition

he captured many of them and on one STS mission the hatch to the cargo bay got stuck shut and the crew can be heard talking about fast moving colored lights coming thru the door, and the cargo bay camera captured them from the outside.


related? maybe.

but most rod ufo's are bugs

originally posted by: ArMaP

It all depends of how fast the shutter speed is. At 120 fps the maximum possible shutter speed is 1/120, but you can see in the video below that a shutter speed of 1/125 is still slow for the faster moving objects.

"Frame rate refers to the number of individual frames that comprise each second of video you record, also known as FPS (frames per second.) The most common frame rates in video are 24, 25 and 30 frames per second.
Shutter speed refers to the amount of time that each individual frame is exposed for. In video, the shutter speed you use will almost always be a fraction of a second. The number used in setting a camera’s shutter speed refers to the denominator of that fraction of a second. For example, if you set your camera’s shutter speed to 60, that means that each frame is being exposed for 1/60th of a second.

People often make the mistake of equating frame rate with shutter speed. In other words, some people determine that if they are shooting with a shutter speed of 1/100th of a second, that they are in turn shooting 100 frames per second. This is not the case. Depending on the camera you are using and the frame rate you have selected, you are probably shooting at either 24, 25 or 30 frames per second and exposing each individual frame for 1/100th of a second.

As a rule of thumb, you want the denominator of your shutter speed to be approximately double the number of frames per second that you are recording. In other words, if you are recording at 30 frames per second, you want your shutter speed to be 1/60th of a second."
vimeo.com...

originally posted by: Thoseaintcontrails
For example, recording insects at normal speed where they appear as rods, but when the video goes into slow motion, the rods are clearly shown to be insects. This would be the ultimate debunk video.

That wouldn't be enough if the shutter speed was too slow, we would still have motion blur in slow motion.
The best way of knowing if a rod is an insect is doing like in the History Channel video, by having two cameras with two different settings, one with normal settings and a high fps camera with a fast shutter speed.

PS: at real 1000 frames per second the longest shutter speed is 1/1000 of a second, fast enough to avoid motion blur.

a reply to: Thoseaintcontrails

Yes, that's what I have been saying, I even thought about posting a link to that page.

originally posted by: ArMaP

originally posted by: Thoseaintcontrails
For example, recording insects at normal speed where they appear as rods, but when the video goes into slow motion, the rods are clearly shown to be insects. This would be the ultimate debunk video.

That wouldn't be enough if the shutter speed was too slow, we would still have motion blur in slow motion.
The best way of knowing if a rod is an insect is doing like in the History Channel video, by having two cameras with two different settings, one with normal settings and a high fps camera with a fast shutter speed.

PS: at real 1000 frames per second the longest shutter speed is 1/1000 of a second, fast enough to avoid motion blur.

It would also be good for there to be a 3rd camera recording the 2 during the experiment, then for the videos to be uploaded with minimal to no editing. There is no way to tell if it's authentic unless there is a background to judge the object with. It should have the same flight line throughout the scene.

a reply to: Thoseaintcontrails

Yes, and it would help if the background was flat and at a known distance, like a wall, as that would help get an idea of the distance, and from that of the size of the object.

originally posted by: penroc3
a reply to: Thoseaintcontrails

martin stubbs of NASA shuttle ufo video fame spoke about another anomaly he saw. they were colored very fast moving rods for lack of a better definition

he captured many of them and on one STS mission the hatch to the cargo bay got stuck shut and the crew can be heard talking about fast moving colored lights coming thru the door, and the cargo bay camera captured them from the outside.


related? maybe.

but most rod ufo's are bugs

Do you have a video of it?
I haven't seen any video evidence that proves daytime rods are bugs. I don't think anyone knows the shutter speed needed to catch insects on video in focus.

originally posted by: Thoseaintcontrails
I don't think anyone knows the shutter speed needed to catch insects on video in focus.

1/1000 of a second should be enough, but that doesn't mean it will be in focus, only that there will not be (or that there will be little) motion blur.

a reply to: Thoseaintcontrails

a video of what the martin stubbs interview?



its a bit long but worth the watch if you haven't seen it.


i dont discount the fact that something might be flying around us unseen, but until i have seen a clear video or picture than i'll hold my judgement either way.

a reply to: ArMaP

There has been a lot of research about this.
Easy to get stuck in the chemical emulsion mindset, I know I did when I was 5 years old.
Some of the earliest code breaking technology was classified at least back in the era when Yardleys black chamber was operating.
Essentially the problem with cipher code breaking was that there was not enough multi dimensional display space to view possible solutions regardless of the speed keys could be applied to the cipher text.
Same thing occurs when trying to get clear still pictures of fast moving subjects with limited light.
My grandfather used to shoot hummingbirds with a strobe light but that isn't practical for UFO hunting where the distance to target is unknown.

originally posted by: ArMaP

originally posted by: Thoseaintcontrails
I don't think anyone knows the shutter speed needed to catch insects on video in focus.

1/1000 of a second should be enough, but that doesn't mean it will be in focus, only that there will not be (or that there will be little) motion blur.

I don't think it has to be that fast, I think there are more than enough video on youtube that shows insects flying at a normal preset shutter speed and in focus at 24 - 30 fps. My phone records clear insects at 24-30 fps with little to no motion blur of insects as small as wasps. I would imagine that the preset shutter speed is around 1/60th since double seems to be the standard for frame rate.