The Russia Thingy

aka - The Mueller Investigation.... I can't really follow it, I don't really understand, the intricacies nor even the players. Basically my tendency is to believe that it is a necessary and importance process but in the final analysis is just a waste of time and effort that serves as a smoke screen for even more unethical and immoral and illegal behavior.

James Risen wrote his first piece for the Intercept:

IS DONALD TRUMP A TRAITOR?
James Risen
February 16 2018, 3:00 a.m.

theintercept.com...

...which sparked controversy and lead to this very interesting debate about The Russia Thingy whatever it may be....

theintercept.com...

The debate ranges over a wide range of issues involved with The Russia Thingy as well as journalistic styles and dick waving.

Im interested to hear what you think of the whole thing - without character assasnation of anyone (including me thank you).

I don't want to hear 'party line' BS either ..... but we'll see.

Sorry Byrd, I could go no further than this at the top of the article.

Americans must live with the uncertainty of not knowing whether Trump has the best interests of the United States or those of Russia at heart.

To me, the question is moot. Trump's interests begins and ends with Trump. If he has Russian interests it is only as they serve his own. If he has any American interests, it is only as they serve his own.

I don't think he is a traitor, rather I think he is a power grabber on the world stage. His enterprises were not gaining him the prestige and power structure he felt was his do and sought only to increase his own brand by running for the presidency.

Understanding the Mueller investigation is quite simple.

The losers of the last election weaponized federal leo organizations to punish the winner.

Which has destroyed many lives over the course of the year.

What ever you do. Don't run a fair campaign and win against Never Trump.

They will make you pay for it, and don't care who gets ran over by their bat snip whacko crazy train.

It sure looks like he is helping millions of Americans.

But, feel free to dabble in this ridiculous concept.

The level of butt hurt is astounding.

However, while listening to the video, I looked back at the article and found the first paragraph to be on the money.

It is not that he is a complicated subject. Quite the opposite. It is that everything about him is so painfully obvious. He is a low-rent racist, a shameless misogynist, and an unbalanced narcissist. He is an unrelenting liar and a two-bit white identity demagogue. Lest anyone forget these things, he goes out of his way each day to remind us of them.

Some see this and others don't. What is painfully obvious to so many of us is considered nothing but butt hurt to others.
It is painfully obvious to those who support him that those who don't are under the control of far left influences and nothing seems to be able to shake that notion. To them we are pawns, children or just plain brain dead.

All of this is a smoke screen for one simple reason... We do not convict people on a crime they may have committed we get them on perjury even when the perjury has nothing to do with the initial intent of the investigation. It's this old process that if you get someone on the record enough, dig deep enough to find anything at all you go for perjury, and that is what we have been seeing basically. Just keep digging and keep asking question until BINGO!

We saw this with Bill Clinton who was impeached for perjury...on lying about have sex with an intern...That started out as a investigation into a real estate scam called Whitewater. The two have/had nothing in common at all, but they got their end results. Nixon was the same...perjury when he really had nothing to do with Watergate, but failed to say what he did learn soon afterwards..and BAM! impeached...

I see the same thing here...Keep asking questions...keep digging even as the direction completely moves away from the original reason for the investigation. We are over a year and still basically nothing with people on the left saying oh it is coming for Trump and people on the right saying oh it is coming and it involves Hillary the Obama etc

At the end of the day if anyone goes to prison or is removed from any office it will be for pergery...

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
Sorry Byrd, I could go no further than this at the top of the article.

Americans must live with the uncertainty of not knowing whether Trump has the best interests of the United States or those of Russia at heart.

To me, the question is moot. Trump's interests begins and ends with Trump. If he has Russian interests it is only as they serve his own. If he has any American interests, it is only as they serve his own.

I don't think he is a traitor, rather I think he is a power grabber on the world stage. His enterprises were not gaining him the prestige and power structure he felt was his do and sought only to increase his own brand by running for the presidency.

I do hope you will listen to the debate anyway. I am of the same mind as you in general but I found these two award winning journalists disagreements very interesting to observe. And it is a good example of the type of debate/discussion that we should be hearing in other outlets - not just the onesided opinion rantings of x, y or z.

a reply to: Xtrozero

It's DC. If you follow the Q thread, whether you believe anything to do with Q or not, you've seen the connections dug up that make the place a tangled mess.

In order to prosecute anyone there on a real crime, it gets very, very hard not to drag others into the proceedings, very powerful others. You risk pulling more and more threads of web into your trial.

So ... perjury is something that reveals the least, protects the most.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Yeah all the ridicule and getting yelled at 24/7 is really what every person desires. I'm still waiting for the Mueller explanation how Trump wasn't dutifully elected without changing any citizens and electoral votes. That's a trick that not even Houdini on crack could have performed. Changing the minds of a few thousand minds through ads and message boards is one thing but it gets really tricky when people claim that it happened to tens of millions of people.

originally posted by: neo96
Understanding the Mueller investigation is quite simple.

The losers of the last election weaponized federal leo organizations to punish the winner.

I am truly sorry that you think it is so simple - IT IS NOT.

And if your statements are defensible and not just following 'The Party Line'' please enlighten us.

originally posted by: whyamIhere
It sure looks like he is helping millions of Americans.

But, feel free to dabble in this ridiculous concept.

The level of butt hurt is astounding.

I would dispute "He's helping millions...." but it is not the subject. Thanks for stopping by.

originally posted by: FyreByrd
aka - The Mueller Investigation.... I can't really follow it, I don't really understand, the intricacies nor even the players. Basically my tendency is to believe that it is a necessary and importance process but in the final analysis is just a waste of time and effort that serves as a smoke screen for even more unethical and immoral and illegal behavior.

James Risen wrote his first piece for the Intercept:

IS DONALD TRUMP A TRAITOR?
James Risen
February 16 2018, 3:00 a.m.

theintercept.com...

...which sparked controversy and lead to this very interesting debate about The Russia Thingy whatever it may be....

theintercept.com...

The debate ranges over a wide range of issues involved with The Russia Thingy as well as journalistic styles and dick waving.

Im interested to hear what you think of the whole thing - without character assasnation of anyone (including me thank you).

I don't want to hear 'party line' BS either ..... but we'll see.

Well it's about treason in the main, as the author says,
"it is still unclear whether the president of the United States is an agent of a foreign power"
If he was an agent of a foreign power...say a sovereign Russia, then he would be treasonous.

I don't think it is as simple as that, I think was as much going on at home as there was aid from Russia, there could be a large number of players, as well as a large number of the unwitting. I think the author conceives of that too, just doesn't spit it out.

If there was, it would certainly still be against the Constitution though.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

perhaps we dont care because all of that is nothing but critiques on character, and character doesnt #ing matter, the policies he does or doesnt enact is all that matters. identity politics is what gets your head believing character traits matter enough to impeach someone, they dont, he doesnt hurt the country by having opinions you dislike.... show how his policy decisions hurt the country if you want people to listen to you about how hes a bad president, cause any threads or articles about his opinions and his character will continue to be ignored just as they always where for obama bush clinton and bush again, americans have always ignored those critiques by and large, it is policy that matters,

how do people not get that?


this identity politics bullsnip is the same mentality that has people judging legislation by the person who wrote it. "trump wrote it? then i wont support it, even though i havnt and wont read it" "the dems wrote it? then i support it", and the reverse for trump supporters is also true, too damn many of us are guilty of judging things based on the character behind them,

politics is about the policy of the nation not the character traits of those behind it. so SHOW US what policy you dislike not what character traits you dislike, if you really want to make a difference and be heard.

and if you dont get that by now, then you will eventually as you see all the same divisionist identity politics bullsnip continue to be carried out for the next president and the one after that and after that etc.

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
However, while listening to the video, I looked back at the article and found the first paragraph to be on the money.

It is not that he is a complicated subject. Quite the opposite. It is that everything about him is so painfully obvious. He is a low-rent racist, a shameless misogynist, and an unbalanced narcissist. He is an unrelenting liar and a two-bit white identity demagogue. Lest anyone forget these things, he goes out of his way each day to remind us of them.

Some see this and others don't. What is painfully obvious to so many of us is considered nothing but butt hurt to others.
It is painfully obvious to those who support him that those who don't are under the control of far left influences and nothing seems to be able to shake that notion. To them we are pawns, children or just plain brain dead.

And I agree with those assessments - but I was hoping to stick to The Russia Thing. This isn't really about Trump's character but about potential Treason, Collusion, and, as always Obstruction of Justice.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
All of this is a smoke screen for one simple reason... We do not convict people on a crime they may have committed we get them on perjury even when the perjury has nothing to do with the initial intent of the investigation. It's this old process that if you get someone on the record enough, dig deep enough to find anything at all you go for perjury, and that is what we have been seeing basically. Just keep digging and keep asking question until BINGO!

We saw this with Bill Clinton who was impeached for perjury...on lying about have sex with an intern...That started out as a investigation into a real estate scam called Whitewater. The two have/had nothing in common at all, but they got their end results. Nixon was the same...perjury when he really had nothing to do with Watergate, but failed to say what he did learn soon afterwards..and BAM! impeached...

I see the same thing here...Keep asking questions...keep digging even as the direction completely moves away from the original reason for the investigation. We are over a year and still basically nothing with people on the left saying oh it is coming for Trump and people on the right saying oh it is coming and it involves Hillary the Obama etc

At the end of the day if anyone goes to prison or is removed from any office it will be for pergery...

And this is one of the main points of the debate between Risen and Greenwald. An important one. Thank you for raising it. I hope you listen to the debate, it's very interesting on a number of issues.

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire


To me, the question is moot. Trump's interests begins and ends with Trump.

There a a lot of people that have worked for him and around him that say otherwise, but then we should go with those who know little outside of anti-Trump narratives that been endless 24/7 for over a year now where he can do no right at all. Lol, even when he said we need to fix DOCA and offered 3 times the numbers as Obama did the narrative was "He is holding dreamers hostage!!" with zero engagement.

Hell the left is even throwing senator Feinstein out because she is not a big enough Trump hater... Its all about the hate on the left...

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Xtrozero


So ... perjury is something that reveals the least, protects the most.

I don't understand what this means?

Are you saying something like "lying reveals little" and protects (who - the person who lies) the most?????

Seriously I have not idea what concept(s) you are trying to communicate.

originally posted by: Perfectenemy
a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Yeah all the ridicule and getting yelled at 24/7 is really what every person desires. I'm still waiting for the Mueller explanation how Trump wasn't dutifully elected without changing any citizens and electoral votes. That's a trick that not even Houdini on crack could have performed. Changing the minds of a few thousand minds through ads and message boards is one thing but it gets really tricky when people claim that it happened to tens of millions of people.

Is your memory of the 2016 election so short that you forget the election was decided by thousands not millions? Glad you agree that changing the minds of a few thousand people through ads and messages IS indeed a thing. Remember the indictments the Mueller investigation has produced so far? Start putting it all together, you can do it!

You know, I've been a lurker on Above Top Secret for over ten years and I gotta say it's horrifying that you trumpsters are sitting on the hugest government conspiracy of all time, and you are blindly following along.

originally posted by: Perfectenemy
a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Yeah all the ridicule and getting yelled at 24/7 is really what every person desires. I'm still waiting for the Mueller explanation how Trump wasn't dutifully elected without changing any citizens and electoral votes. That's a trick that not even Houdini on crack could have performed. Changing the minds of a few thousand minds through ads and message boards is one thing but it gets really tricky when people claim that it happened to tens of millions of people.

An interesting point - that deserves discussion but not about the point at hand. I hope you get a change to watch and listen to a very passionate and informative debate.

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire....Trump's interests begins and ends with Trump.... sought only to increase his own brand by running for the presidency.

pfffft, yeah cause doing this has reallllly helped his image, hes so much more popular now /sarc


he had the mockingbird media on his side, he had positive PR, until he ran, then it all flipped on him, and you think he did that to improve his image..... riiiiiiiiiight, cognitive dissonance anyone?