#GermanDeathCamps

I have noticed this a bit lately online (Mostly via my son's social media he follows people like Paul Watson and the Donald so maybe it's targeted, I don't know).

Seems to be a campaign run by the Polish Government, but some of it seems utterly bizarre.

Check out this page, www.germandeathcamps.org... did they really make Hitler's 'tache the gateway of Auschwitz?

And the videos...

I'm a Brit, but thought everyone referred to the camps as Nazi death camps rather than German.

Is there something going on between Poland and Germany now? Are lines being drawn?

a reply to: SprocketUK

to quote from the site :

An attempt to escape from responsibility of the crimes committed during World War II, blurring of guilt in half-truths, manipulations and lies, are the guiding principles of the German thinking about the past these days.

i profer no oponion on veracity of the above claim


but - any sort of neo-nazism and historical revisionism - goes down like a lead balloon with the poles

a reply to: SprocketUK

poland is trying to pretend their role in the holocaust didnt happen.
this is just a part of their absurd re-writing of history.

obviously the german blitzkrieg rolled over them and they were under occupation, but what happened, happened.
dont go rewriting history because of a vague misplaced national guilt

I just find it all so bizarre, especially now.
Is there a Nazi problem in Poland?
Is there an anti German thing going on there that is being whipped up?

a reply to: SprocketUK

It is odd. It's not like the world is still punishing Germany.

Hell, it's not even like the nazis just disappeared after the war. Many of them got employed by the west.

Why is Poland all of a sudden so convicted on this? It's not like they were allied to Germany, they were occupied.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: SprocketUK

It is odd. It's not like the world is still punishing Germany.

Hell, it's not even like the nazis just disappeared after the war. Many of them got employed by the west.

Why is Poland all of a sudden so convicted on this? It's not like they were allied to Germany, they were occupied.

I know, right? and they are practically the same country now, what with the EU and Schengen zone.

a reply to: SprocketUK

My best guess would be they've had a bit of a nationalist movement recently. That's all fine and dandy in many parts of the world but from my understanding frowned upon in the EU. They were against the influx of immigrants from hot spots which was kind of spearheaded by Germany.

Maybe this is just a little jab, a bit of deflection.

a reply to: CriticalStinker


could be, though the way the message is coming across seems to be more anti German than anti nationalist really, doesn't it?

Poland recently passed a law making it illegal to accuse Poland of complicity in Nazi war atrocities.

originally posted by: oldcarpy
Poland recently passed a law making it illegal to accuse Poland of complicity in Nazi war atrocities.

Bizarre.

I wonder how that works with the European arrest warrant?

I gotta head to work soon and will ask a couple of the lads there if they know anything about all this. (Chances are slim though, they only go back for holidays and, from what I gather, spend the two weeks off their faces on cheap booze).

a reply to: SprocketUK

For sure. I think they're dealing with guilt, and it's easier to say "we weren't as bad as they were"... And in all reality, they weren't.

It's still odd, it's something that hasn't been a talking point, or really discussed. I don't think Poland is painted bad in history.

I was just spit balling to try and find some current context for why this thought line would be evoked. I'm at a loss, haha.

a reply to: SprocketUK

I think that its only really Britain and America who ever had a particularly large tendency to make distinctions between the German and the Nazi, during, or after the war.

It might have become common during the late 80s, early 90s to make these distinctions elsewhere in Europe, as time went on, and tempers cooled. But some places suffered unimaginably under the Nazis, to a degree that other places maybe did not, at least not the the same extent. Its perfectly possible that places like Poland just do not see the line between Nazis and Germans during that period, because the German government and the Nazi government, were one and the same thing at the time. Perhaps they see the political party involved, as being rather secondary to the fact that it was German soldiers, carrying German kit, speaking the German language, who were their oppressors. Perhaps they, arguably wisely, do not accept the notion that Germany was less responsible for what happened in Poland, just because the political party in power in Germany during the war, had a name and a reputation.

Its worth pointing out that when we think of the British Empire (which is a detestable structure which we should have been wise enough and compassionate enough as a nation, not to have desired, leave alone gone ahead and actually created through conquest), we do not call it the Victorian Empire, nor do we refer to it as the Elite Monarchist Empire. We do not think of those who went about its conquering, or those who administrated it as being separate from Britain, just because their actions were not in keeping with the best traditions of the British people, or because it was not all the British people who were engaged directly in the construction of the Empire. We think of the thing as the British Empire, despite the fact that the majority of Britons living during the period, really did not benefit all that much from its existence. There was still poverty amongst the hardest working, there was still oppression of the working people by those their labours lined the pockets of, there was still starvation amongst the poor, still untreated sickness, still unimaginable imbalance of application of law...

Yes, despite our Empire, the actual real people of the British Isles, the regular folk, were still as absolutely screwed as ever, and yet, those looking to free themselves from British rule during those times, and indeed since, have failed to see the line between what our government do, and the actual people themselves, despite the fact that there are clear distinctions one could reasonably make between the British people, even now, and those who lead their government. But it is a damned sight easier to see that line, when you are not in a country which suffers as a result of British activity.

I would have thought that this particular ad campaign comes from a very similar place. Perhaps Poland sees the rise of the right and is concerned, and wanted to give everyone a solid reminder that things which have been before, cannot be permitted to occur again, a sentiment I can certainly get behind, even shoulder to shoulder with.

That being said, there could be more to this...

www.foreignaffairs.com...

Poland has, as recently as December of last year, been in the news for all the wrong reasons. The rise of far right groups, based entirely on the concepts of accepting and embracing xenophobia, in Poland of late has been a concern for many in Europe more broadly, and its a facet of Polands current political structure that people there seem largely unwilling to confront. Their own governments various members, had a hard time condemning the presence of fascist banners during the Independence March, and even then they only did so under pressure from outside the party.

Perhaps this ad campaign concentrates on referring to Germany, instead of to the Nazis, because the ad campaign is aimed at Polish people as much as it is anyone else. Perhaps they are trying to remind Poles of the horrors inflicted upon their nation in times past, without using the Nazi description. Its possible that the people they are trying to reach with this material, are Nazis themselves, and the ad campaigns directors thought that calling them out by name would push them away, more than it would soften their resolve. Perhaps its a reminder to those seeking to take up fascism, that becoming like unto the Germans in WW2, makes one an enemy of Poland?

It certainly is not the way I would have approached it, but there again, perhaps that is just as well.

Its a tricky one.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Yeah, unless there is some stuff going on that isn't in the news here, maybe some countries are trying to paint them in a bad light because of other reasons and this is their way of countering that?

a reply to: dashen



I found this article and think its of interest. The Polish Punish those who accuse it of the Holocaust.

Those historical truths have long been the subject of passionate debate—and are sensitive in Poland, which suffered immense persecution and loss during World War II. Adolf Hitler didn’t just wage war against Poland: He wanted to wipe the country off the map entirely and re-populate it with Germans. Three million Polish Jews were murdered in the Holocaust; another 3 million Polish civilians and military personnel are thought to have perished at the hands of the Nazis. Nearly 18 percent of Poland’s population died during World War II, including 90 percent of Polish Jews, the largest group of Jews murdered in the Holocaust.

www.history.com...

a reply to: kurthall

And yet, they seem unwilling to properly deal with fascists in their own country. If you look at my previous response to this thread, you will see a link. Give it a look!

a reply to: TrueBrit

Well put as always.

No doubt we will get to the bottom of it all soon enough with the combined power of ATS on the case

I do agree somewhat with your distinction between us and the Yanks and the occupied countries, though I remember some of the old guys in my granddad's pub who always talked about "Natsees" rather than Germans.

I just don't know, felt it was sufficiently strange to share here though.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Seriously, thanks for your take and critical analysis of those histories you laid out. Never gave much thought to the British analog you presented.

With respect to the OP, I'd have to read the links and more about what is actually happening and what is rhetoric...

Poland was also occupied by the Soviets who also committed atrocities against the poor Poles.

The German regular army also committed atrocities as well as the SS. This was all on an almost unimaginable scale. I would categorise both as Nazis.

Despite all this, fascism seems to be on the rise in Poland.

They are passing laws against kosher meat, now.

Have the poles ever mentioned how they treated their own poles pre 1939 ?
From what I have read, the pole were quite busy throwing them out of Poland, and being stranded in the no mans land between Poland and Germany, as the Germans would not let them in, only came across that in one mans history, so no corroboration as yet.

originally posted by: oldcarpy
Poland was also occupied by the Soviets who also committed atrocities against the poor Poles.

The German regular army also committed atrocities as well as the SS. This was all on an almost unimaginable scale. I would categorise both as Nazis.

Despite all this, fascism seems to be on the rise in Poland.

They are passing laws against kosher meat, now.

Must not forget Katyn wood massacre of the polish intelligentsia by the Russians.