Science, Enlightenment, and going Nuts

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: Murgatroid

I don't believe a WORD "science" says any more...

the pure dripping irony of typing ^ on a computer and uploading it to the internet

science says : " do no drink concentrated sulphuric acid "

what are you going to do ??????????????????

Tide pods, anyone?

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: Murgatroid

I don't believe a WORD "science" says any more...

the pure dripping irony of typing ^ on a computer and uploading it to the internet

science says : " do no drink concentrated sulphuric acid "

what are you going to do ??????????????????

Or does it say that just because you wanted to observe it saying that? I think the Tide pod scare has finally been explained.

a reply to: badw0lf

Funny I was thinking the same thing - great minds creating eachother as observed.

There is a very important caveat in the original article:

reality doesn't actually exist until we measure it - at least, not on the very small scale.

and

At the quantum level, reality does not exist if you are not looking at it

emphasis is mine.

A tree is not a quantum-level object!

Even if it was, and measuring can be equated to seeing (as the OP stated), who has to do the "seeing"? If you don't see the tree, but your neighbour does, does it exist? If neither of you see it, but a cat does, does it exist? If the cat doesn't see it but a bird does, does it exist? Does "seeing" imply intelligence? If so, to what degree?

a reply to: DaRAGE

i think that this is far easier than people go on about.

all quantum waveforms are constantly interacting with other
quantum waveforms, unless special care is taken to prevent
that. This special care is probably, seldom if ever, in effect
in nature.

So quantum waveforms interfere with quantum waveforms,
which causes decoherence.

So no observer is necessary.

If you get stuck on that observer thing, then either:

1) You go insane

or

2) You have to invent God to observe everything, which is just
an alternate form of 1).

"Reality" is indeed a bit strange.. but here on Earth, you can
mostly ignore all the spooky stuff, due to decoherence with
the environment.

Try as you might, unless you spent something like 50 year at it,
you have little or no chance of encountering what's behind it all.

So no reason to stress.

a reply to: DaRAGE

Is a yes and a no at the same time, because the fact that you cannot see it, does not mean that it do not exist. Here is the interesting part:

What we see is just an interpretation of our brain of the light that is rebounding from any object and entering our eyes. In addition to that, the color we see is the color that is not (All objects absorb light, except the one that cannot absorb, that one reflects out). So a red flower has all the color except the red one.

We are just a bunch of atoms and cells group together, our form is define by our environment. That is the science part.

For the other part, I have to say that awareness and consciousness are not the same thing. All animals are aware of their existence, but they are not conscious. I mean a dog know it exist, he get hungry he looks for food. He is aware he is stronger than some animals and can hunt them to eat them.
In our case, we are not only aware, we are conscious too.

But there is another level of consciousness, the one that can make us really "see" what we are, and go beyond this material body keeping our awareness. When we get there we realize we are more than just a bunch of atoms and cells.

originally posted by: DaRAGE
Anyone know someone they could recommend? 😀

Consider this: You are GOD experiencing all that GOD is, through a unique aspect of GOD called YOU (insert name.) So kick back and enjoy the ride that YOU are creating.

I will repeat this on ATS as necessary. Peace.

originally posted by: DaRAGE
Like i said. Going nuts. Any thoughts? And yes i realise this phone i am typing on doesnt truely exist and is nothing but conscious thought manifestes.... or just awareness?

I guess the thing to keep in mind is that there are certain things about existence that are personal, and only happen to you. Primary among those things is having a point of view. Another is "moving through time." These are things that physics and math have a hard time dealing with because they're supposed to be objective and generic. That's why mathematically if you hit your thumb with a hammer it has to do with mass and velocity and nerve responses and chemicals in your brain and so on. But personally it means, "OW! I hit my thumb!"

This could all be a complex virtual reality like a video game, and you're all just a subroutine of a program created to simulate the existence of another human being somewhere answering my posts. I don't know for sure. But from what I can gather, provided every living thing actually exists, we seem to be in a kind of hologram where our various reality bubbles intertwine. We reach a consensus about some things, and that's incorporated into our individual personal realities.

What it boils down to, though, is what sociologist Emile Durkheim said, which was basically that something is "real" if it's real in its consequences. Ghosts aren't "real," but if you have a heart attack and die from seeing what you think is a real ghost, then what's the difference? The hammer is real. The pain is real when you hit your thumb. That's what will keep you grounded.

Of course, when you die, YOUR entire universe will cease to exist. Without your reality bubble in the mix, without you having a point of view, there is no time, or physical reality, or anything. Just YOUR reality will cease to exist. Will some form of the universe continue to exist after you're dead? What difference does it make? You're friggin' DEAD! Sure, MY universe will continue, because we are all looking at this from our own perspectives. And then when I die, my entire universe will no longer exist.

That's the way it's set up. Why? Not for any moral reasons. It's just that we are a kind of "industrial byproduct" of the massive amounts of energy swirling around. We're like a tiny little Mandelbrot expression of a multi-dimensional reality -- an expression of a pattern that naturally arose from chaos and feedback, per Alan Turing -- that happened to become self-aware enough to think we see the energy and the universe as stable and "real." This is us. This is our DNA:

originally posted by: DaRAGE
...
How does one if they are just awareness and reality doesnt even truely exist accept anything they have learnt or been told by anyone or in any format know anything they have learnt.... to be true?
...

There appears to be nothing that can be accepted, or denied.

No ignorance to be denied.
No knowledge to be accepted, or denied.

Just a bunch of crazy hairless apes, pretending to know something.

We don't know nothin.

a reply to: DaRAGE

Love this type of questioning/thinking and as another has already stated. "No answers. But Loads of fun"

My own personal thoughts...

Nothing in existence can be the same. Even the best "copy" or "clone" or "production" of anything in existence can only ever be 99.99...% accurate at best. Even our thoughts are unique, they will never be quite the same as any another person that ever existed and so on. With this in mind and adding in the fact that everything dies in this existence and that everything seems to be reaching for the Fibonacci sequence (Golden Ratio) in nature etc.

It appears to me at least, that everything in existence is trying to become an expression of perfection, yet it is imperfect and spirals near to perfection, missing each time. That imperfection is what makes everything unique.

Take it one step further. If we take everything that has ever existed and everything that will ever exist in this existence until the death of everything down to the very last particle of matter...

What do we have once every single imperfect combination of every single thing that can ever exist in a finite universe has existed? There is only one possibility left...

Infinity!

Just my thoughts and thanks for waking that side of my mind up again before I head for a sleep haha

a reply to: DaRAGE

Borrowed from www.theself.com

THE MIND IMAGINES THE WORLD APPEARANCE
Whatever appears in one's consciousness, that seems to come into being, gets established, and even bears fruits! Such is the power of the mind.

It is the mind that makes things appear here.

It brings about the appearance of the body. Nothing else is aware of the body.

The individualized consciousness (mind) has in it its own manifold potentialities, even as spices have taste in them. That consciousness itself appears as the subtle or ethereal body and when it becomes gross, that itself appears to be the physical or material body.

That individualized consciousness itself is known as the jiva or the individual soul, when the potentialities are in an extremely subtle state.

And, when all this jugglery of the jiva ceases, that itself shines as the Supreme Being.

I am not, nor is there anyone in this universe; all this is nothing but the infinite consciousness.

The pure and infinite consciousness alone thinks of itself as the jiva and as the mind, and then believes itself to be the body.

When this dreamlike fantasy is prolonged, this long dream feels like reality! It is both real and unreal: because it is perceived it appears to be real, but because of inherent contradiction it is unreal.

The mind is sentient because it is based on consciousness; when viewed from something apart of consciousness, it is inert and diluted.

When there is perception, the mind takes on the role of the object of perception - but not in reality - even as when it is perceived as such, the bracelet is seen, though in truth it is gold.

Because Brahman (infinite consciousness) alone is all this, even what is inert is pure consciousness; but all of us, from me down to the rock, are indefinable - neither inert nor sentient. There can be no apprehension of two completely different things: only when there is similarity between the subject and object is perception possible.

Concerning what is indefinable and whose existence is not certain, 'inert' and 'sentient' are only words with no substance. In the mind, the subject is believed to be sentient and the object is said to be inert. Thus, caught in delusion, the jiva (individualized consciousness) hangs around.

In truth, this duality itself is the creation of the mind and hallucination. Of course, we cannot determine with certainty that such a hallucination exists. The infinite consciousness alone Is.

When this illusory division is not seen for what it is, there is the arising of the false egotism.

But when the mind inquires into its own nature, this division disappears. There is realization of the infinite consciousness, and one attains great bliss.


Stay Hydrated...

Quantum Physics is the new scientific platform for LOA, manifestation, creation, Christ consciousness, God Theory etc. (Although these teachings, studies and laws have been esoteric knowledge for 1000’s of years)

“One of the core principles of Quantum Physics is the idea that reality ( the photons that produce the light-illusion we all occupy ) exists in infinite possible states ( ie: the many-worlds scenario) until we observe it and thus collapse all potential versions of reality into the one single option we’ve chosen to live inside.”
www.curiousapes.com...

As I grasp this...wave forms are thoughts till they are observed and they do not work in our “time” and as someone mentioned earlier the wave forms are quantum particles, electrons. So in theory if you are the observer of that thought you crush the wave form and it manifests into your reality and everything we see as reality came from a thought (wave form) that the observer observed.
Everything is energy and quantum physics does state that our reality is only energy, vibrating at a certain frequency (think Tesla)
BUT
For the one that said we blink out of existence when we die...Quantum Physics actually proves some kind of life after death since all is energy and energy cannot die.
It’s all very incredible and the deeper connections are astounding, you should jump head first down the rabbit hole!

I wish I would stop talking to my self!

wen I was 10 I had a thought that when I travle a long way.
that some how the places I was going
to was Made some time before I got thire!
(Their, There, They're. its one of them!)

I have travled a lot of the world.
I wunder if it goes away to?

why should it stay here wen no one looks at it?
maybe paris is gone now!
and just some thing my mined puts in the news.
the ultimate virtual reality.

why should thire even be a past!

IT IS your world. Live in it. I have to!
them Stupid scientists are Mad.
they just make stuff up!
Nikola Tesla said some thing like that to.
that the play with theory to much.

me! scientists are making the rules to much.
and if you dont belive them you are a witch, heretic.
um no that was in the past.
what would you call it now? just stupid!

oh! turn me off as you leve the room.

originally posted by: Incandescent
There is no experience without an observer.

Imagine if every single person, animal, insect, bug and every other type of creature (all life forms) disappeared. Would a forest still exist? Arguably, no it would not.

is the tree not a life form?
does it not have a certain awareness?
could the tree itself be an observer?

originally posted by: njord

originally posted by: Incandescent
There is no experience without an observer.

Imagine if every single person, animal, insect, bug and every other type of creature (all life forms) disappeared. Would a forest still exist? Arguably, no it would not.

is the tree not a life form?
does it not have a certain awareness?
could the tree itself be an observer?

they have done a experiment with trees.
they put a match to one and had
a test device to it and trees around it.
they All had a reaction. so Yes!
humans can be so evil.

But are they some thing we see as real or are they real?
put a match to gun powder you get a reaction.
are WE real?

a reply to: njord

All plants are.


But without a central "brain" so how do they do that? We humans are mostly headcentric. Except touching all senses take place in and around the head...

Enlightenment is understanding the difference between input and output. Whatever the output, the input must contain also. Not the other way around.

Perception is a removal from the all, not an addition to nothing.

The act of measuring, is what happens when light is reflected. Has nothin to do with humans. If you think trees stop growing when you look at them, youre probably not human anyway.

1000 hockey pucks flying into the net. You want to measure one? Does not matter where you look, the act of quantification blocks a puck. 999/1000 of the input potential still exists.

Peeple

All plants are.


But without a central "brain" so how do they do that? We humans are mostly headcentric. Except touching all senses take place in and around the head...

must you have a brain to be aware?
does your soul have a brain?

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: DaRAGE

There is no scientific theory thats states that things don’t exist until an observer is present. This is simply a bad translation of the double slit experiment. This claim only exists in the scale of electrons, not in the scale of trees and such.

It might well be if Science has already stated that this place is an illusion. That would mean none of it has any substance, and electrons included aren't real, which would highly suggest that we're trapped in it possibly just by believing in it.

a reply to: ignorant_ape

Good grief Charlie Brown SERIOUSLY?

STOP drinking the KoolAid...

These people, it turns out, are operating from what I called The Gullible Mind. It is a psychological processing malfunction that filters out information based on its source rather than its integrity. People who operate from The Gullible Mind tend to have misplaced trust in governments, institutions, mainstream news networks, doctors, scientists or anyone who wears the garb of apparent authority.

But how does this work inside their heads? It's an interesting process. Gullible Mind people do believe it is possible for a government (or institution) to lie; but they believe that governments, institutions and doctors choose NOT to lie even when it would serve their own self interests to do so. Follow this carefully, because this is the fascinating part. These Gullible Mind people effectively believe that even though a government official could lie about something, they would never actually do so.

The gullible mind explained

In the past, the elite manipulated the population through a more mystical belief system. In particular, there was the institution of Sun worship (typified by deities such as Osiris and Set). However, as antiquity gave way to modern history, this system of control began to lose its effectiveness. During the sixteenth century, the ruling class managed to co-opt a relatively new methodology of truth discernment...science.

Over the years, they would contaminate this institution with their own virulent strains of thought...metaphysical naturalism, radical empiricism, Malthusianism, Darwinism, behaviorism, radical environmentalism, etc. Many of these paradigms were derivative of their own occult doctrines, thinly veiled to appear as objective science. All of these concepts correlate in some way and, at some point, coalesce. Together, they are gradually paving the way for the re-introduction of the hidden god of the Ancient Mysteries.

The Ascendancy of the Scientific Dictatorship