Trump decides not to sanction Russia, against urging of Democrats and Republicans

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Wayfarer

I’m not sure imposing sanctions on a country in order to appear innocent is a good enough reason to impose sanctions. That reeks to me like trying to save ones skin by keeping up appearances.

The points made by the president and the state department as to why sanctions will not be imposed at this time still stand.

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean by 'imposing sanctions in order to appear innocent', nor how it relates to my previous comment. Could you please clarify for me?

a reply to: Wayfarer

Are you saying the original list compiled of Putin's cronies (you know, the ones who financed the hacking and troll-bot operations) had nothing to do with the hacking?

Sanctions, like NATO armor practicing on Russians borders in Eastern Europe, Missile shields, et al, are to contain and isolate Russia from participating in World Markets, as much as possible.

All the current propaganda is the same old cold war dogma about the threat of communism, red scares and Soviet threat to the world. Except the 'Soviets' don't even exist anymore, the US is now the Empire threatening the world at large.

We can tell because the anti communist rhetoric is not changed, one bit.

a reply to: luthier

I agree the sanctions from my armchair may be stupid but he certainly owes an explanation for not passing a law passed by all but 5 people.

Russian businessman didn't hack the US election...


there is no just cause for reprisal for something that never happened.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Wayfarer

Are you saying the original list compiled of Putin's cronies (you know, the ones who financed the hacking and troll-bot operations) had nothing to do with the hacking?

Sanctions, like NATO armor practicing on Russians borders in Eastern Europe, Missile shields, et al, are to contain and isolate Russia from participating in World Markets, as much as possible.

All the current propaganda is the same old cold war dogma about the threat of communism, red scares and Soviet threat to the world. Except the 'Soviets' don't even exist anymore, the US is now the Empire threatening the world at large.

We can tell because the anti communist rhetoric is not changed, one bit.

Ok, I understand I think what you're saying about sanctions, insomuch as they were already in place and that the list was unnecessary (correct me if I've misunderstood again).

The list as I am to understand it isn't directly related to the sanctions, but rather a 'naughty' list to give direction for US agencies to thwart or not do business with those who had a direct hand in the election meddling. So in this case it is a separate element from the aforementioned sanctions.

a reply to: intrptr

Irrelevant. Trump can say that himself.

The reason we created the system is so one man can't be bought or make decisions.

Now that has eroded possibly be I am.not going to argue in favor of erosion.

a reply to: Wayfarer

Why is it so hard for the alt right, to see what is right in front of them. They were ready to hang Clintons with far less on them. My Gosh, its crazy. These same people are the ones who went off on me, and said there were no sanctions against Russia, when in fact there were, last year! The sanctions were in part for their meddling in the election.


By the way using the word "meddling" is being used to avoid conflict. When it comes down to it, it was an attack on our democracy. Everyone including trump should be OUTRAGED, but the ones following trump, fight it tooth and nail, I guess its hard for them to face the fact Russia was rooting for trump and tried to help him out.

a reply to: luthier

"Irrelevant" that the election hacking thing is faked?

Could you please direct me to the evidence it is real?

originally posted by: angeldoll
And maybe at times we have a tendency to make things more complicated than they are.

Perhaps.
I'm just surprised that no one is considering the results of these specific sanctions.

Rather than asking whether sanctions should be put in place, we should be asking what it would achieve.

There's arguments for and against for these specific sanctions but that doesn't seem to be part of the conversation.

You can hate Trump yet still think it's unfair that German companies will fall under these sanctions.
You can love Trump yet still think that increasing the EU's reliance on Russian gas is a bad thing.

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar

originally posted by: angeldoll
And maybe at times we have a tendency to make things more complicated than they are.

Perhaps.
I'm just surprised that no one is considering the results of these specific sanctions.

Rather than asking whether sanctions should be put in place, we should be asking what it would achieve.

There's arguments for and against for these specific sanctions but that doesn't seem to be part of the conversation.

You can hate Trump yet still think it's unfair that German companies will fall under these sanctions.
You can love Trump yet still think that increasing the EU's reliance on Russian gas is a bad thing.

This is a good point, though it begs the question why didn't Trump and his administration say as much rather than just claim that the 'threat of sanctions was punishment enough'?

a reply to: intrptr

en.m.wikipedia.org...


If everyone in Congress but 5 people makes a law the president oWes an explanation for ignoring it.

It's plain and simple.

a reply to: Wayfarer


Banks are the enforcement branch, they refuse payment for transactions conducted by "Sanctioned" 'entities', businesses or groups.

Making it personal by naming names outright as punishment for 'some worngdoing' is far too obvious like I said, why they stopped it.

It would be like sanctioning owners of McDonalds and Walmart (freezing accounts), because the uS gubment is attacking foreign nations. It makes little sense unless we consider the wider scope of "Russian Regime Change" down the road too.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: 23432

You entire rant is completely insignificant and has nothing to do with the process.

You are a zealot. We get it.

Your posts are irrelevant to how the process works.

Americans are revolutionaries not statists .

Me thinks you comform too much and willing to defend the undefendable .

Face it ; it's a bankrupt system .

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Wayfarer



Making it personal by naming names outright as punishment for 'some worngdoing' is far too obvious like I said, why they stopped it.

But as I'm aware they didn't 'stop it'; they merely re-assigned folks off the Forbes list rather than use the original list compiled by intelligence officials.

a reply to: 23432

We get it you hate America and don't live here.

It doesn't make your points any more valid.

You can talk like jar jar bunks all you want.

Your thoughts are irrelevant to me. I consider them garbage adolescent propaganda.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: intrptr

en.m.wikipedia.org...


If everyone in Congress but 5 people makes a law the president oWes an explanation for ignoring it.

It's plain and simple.

Whats plain to everyone, even those pretending, is the election hack was a hoax, perped by Hillary as an excuse for losing the election.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: 23432

We get it you hate America and don't live here.

It doesn't make your points any more valid.

You can talk like jar jar bunks all you want.

Your thoughts are irrelevant to me. I consider them garbage adolescent propaganda.

I don't hate America that revolted against tea tax .



I pity the Americans who love their chains .

Your thoughts are also silly and your persecution of Trump is in vain .

Word salad , you are rather good at it though , i give you that .

Consider me as your dressing.

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Wayfarer



Making it personal by naming names outright as punishment for 'some worngdoing' is far too obvious like I said, why they stopped it.

But as I'm aware they didn't 'stop it'; they merely re-assigned folks off the Forbes list rather than use the original list compiled by intelligence officials.

Yah, as soon as everyones attention span lapses, they will go back to surrounding Russia with military bases and destabilizing the economy.

Siege measures , 21 century.

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: intrptr

en.m.wikipedia.org...


If everyone in Congress but 5 people makes a law the president oWes an explanation for ignoring it.

It's plain and simple.

Whats plain to everyone, even those pretending, is the election hack was a hoax, perped by Hillary as an excuse for losing the election.

The election wasn't hacked. That's a red herring and a strawman.

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: 23432

Sure but that doesn't have to do with what their power is in the Constitution.

Sure he has veto power but he may want to explain why he would ignore a law passed by all but 5 members.

I hate to break this to you but those who bought and paid for the Congress has already turned the Constitution into a toilet paper .

Can't you see what is on the horizon for US and why Trump the Jesuit Knight was brought into Presidency ?

You think the constitution became toilet paper when Trump became President?

You are ignorant of the last 16-24 years.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: intrptr

en.m.wikipedia.org...


If everyone in Congress but 5 people makes a law the president oWes an explanation for ignoring it.

It's plain and simple.

Whats plain to everyone, even those pretending, is the election hack was a hoax, perped by Hillary as an excuse for losing the election.

The election wasn't hacked. That's a red herring and a strawman.

Isolation and containment of Russia (militarily, economically and geographically) is the reality.