A question of political correctness

a reply to: Grimmley

So we leave the bastards to roam unchecked? Let the children, old people, grieving widows and etc. to be brainwashed with finely tuned mind control agendas?

To stay idle in the face of organized evil is the right thing to do? What exactly does this accomplish?

Well, why do we even protect children from child abuse? Let the parents skin their children alive and eat them.. I mean, it's not my child, right? Beat the old man with a bat and take his money. It's not me, is it?

But we're all connected. I'd rather we cared for one another.

How do you draw the line between abusive behavior and 'freedom of expression', when the only reason for this 'expression' (not really) is to profit from the gullibility and weakness of people? By the same logic, we should ignore pyramid schemes and various faith healers who rob people blind.

Where do you draw the line?

I've been in a psychiatry and I've taken anti-psychotics. (not ashamed of it)

I've seen many people who thought the end was near and were talking to imaginary people and thinking it was Jesus.

There's a whole spectrum between solid perception and delusional thinking.

In order to seriously believe that you're going to go with Jesus to a heavenly afterlife.. That's quite far removed from 'healthy' in the direction of 'delusional'. I'd say it's 2-3 SD or more.

Sadly, you are right. We cannot treat this kind of delusion. It does not stem from a brain chemistry disbalance.

What we could do, however, if we had a more enlightened society, is targeted psycho-therapy that tries to understand where the psychological weakness is and heal it. There are often father issues, abandonment issues and others.. It could and should be treated.

The religious proselytizers are basically parasites that feed on psychological traumas. They are the worst of the worst.

But even simply because of the way their statements offend common sense, this is enough of a reason for me to say they should not be allowed to insult all of us with their stupidity.

originally posted by: Rhaegar7
One more thing.

The various proselytizers always target the weakest of us. Children, seniors, those who grieve for the loss of their loved ones.

Why does this proselytizing, which always results in profit (in what is arguably a zero-sum game), fall under the label 'freedom of expression'? It is not only offensive, but it is offensive for a reason. It's a brutal coercion and a violation of our space.

Why do we have to tolerate religious views? I never thought I'd side with Hitchens (God bless him!) and Dawkins.. but I guess that's exactly what I'm doing now.. Even though I do not believe in the miracle of Science, as they do.

I could answer your question with numerous other questions, such as why do we have to tolerate anthropomorphic climate change, when it has been proven to be nothing more than a process to guilt people into giving up their freedoms to be controlled?

Again the short answer is showing tolerance towards something or someone who you do not agree with is called being an adult. You do not have to agree with them, the message, any of it. To outright ban/censor because of being offended or hurt feelings, you ignore it and move on.

originally posted by: Rhaegar7
Well, it's logically impossible (save some kind of paradox) for both Theism and Atheism to be mind control, since you really have to make up your mind and choose one of them.

I was speaking of FALSE religions, not Theism...

When I say false religion, I am talking about any religion that worships false Gods.

If you still think it's impossible, this post is just one small piece of a huge puzzle that explains why I am convinced otherwise.

And BTW I had no idea there were atheists who don't believe in God, isn't that a bit of an oxymoron?

a reply to: Grimmley

Again, this is an aggrandized way of saying, 'we should stay idle'. You even acknowledge it is an evil and unworthy behavior, yet for some reason you say we should ignore it.

I don't understand why.

Half the USA is currently at work, trying to impeach their president, even though there is absolutely no reason for that. He was elected fairly, the people voted for him, and he is discharging his duties as good as can be expected.

Yet his opponents are going crazy, trying to somehow take him out. Official death-threats have been made.

I myself like Trump and think this kind of behavior is quite pointless.

On the other hand, when you try to raise your voice against the Church.. You're immediately reprimanded as an enemy of free speech.

Whaaaaat?

If there was a terrible virus that was spreading throughout the population, would you also advise that we do nothing? I don't see how it is in any way different.

a reply to: Murgatroid

You had no idea there were atheists that didn't believe in God? You're pulling my leg now.

I'd oppose any sort of organized mind control agenda. We call them 'religions'. It's never a question of 'Is their God the real deal?'. It's simply not the question worth asking. Any respectable Deity would find a more elegant way of approaching his chosen people, than a mass of fanatics, bent on spreading their creed by any means necessary.

I don't like how mind control agendas are condoned in our society. I think this is the main reason that we are stuck in this Purgatory.

I will read the link you gave me.I find the topic interesting to be sure. Thanks.

You probably meant that it's strange to hear of an Atheist who *does believe* in God.

It is funny, yes. But it's technically alright. Atheism is simply a rejection of Theism - that is organized religion, that is mostly based upon revelation and worship of a personified, personal Deity.

Deism is Atheistic. The Deist God is basically the God of Atheists.

You might be a Deist as well! Welcome to the club. Have a donut!

a reply to: Rhaegar7

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a reply to: Rhaegar7

Again, this is an aggrandized way of saying, 'we should stay idle'. You even acknowledge it is an evil and unworthy behavior, yet for some reason you say we should ignore it. I don't understand why.

The thing is, people are allowed to say and believe what they want to. I personally do engage in conversation and debates, if I do not agree with their point of view or beliefs, however I try to be as factual as I can with it. I do not like bringing in feelings, feelings do not make truth or fact. When these groups do break the law, then yes they need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent possible, for fraud, liable etc. However again just because one is offended or does not like something does not mean it needs to be banned or censored.

Half the USA is currently at work, trying to impeach their president, even though there is absolutely no reason for that. He was elected fairly, the people voted for him, and he is discharging his duties as good as can be expected.

This is exactly the problem with going off of feelings, entitled brats who have never been held accountable for their actions, and not facts, and the pushing of agendas by the MSM and shady NGOs. Yes this needs to be corrected.

On the other hand, when you try to raise your voice against the Church.. You're immediately reprimanded as an enemy of free speech.

Unfortunately at least here that is not accurate. You are more than likely to going to be called every name in the book if you do not believe or participate in partisan politics. Personally my politics end with the Constitution, I do not care about R's or D's, Constitution or nothing. - But that is another conversation altogether.


Simply put, no matter how much one disagrees with, despises, or is offended by, if what someone says or does is not illegal, then no you cannot nor should not censor or ban it. This blocks the ability to have civil discussions, and maybe even change the view of the person you have the disagreements with. Also there would never be anymore inventions or solutions for that matter.

Grim

a reply to: chr0naut

Really mate? smh

a reply to: chr0naut

So nicely put!

a reply to: Rhaegar7

I would like to live in a world where there was no violence of any kind (and to me religious proselytizing is violence).

People also use race, ethnicity, nationalism, political ideology, economic ideology, and feudalism as excuses for violence. People use sports, jealousy, insults to their manhood/womanhood, and celebrity quotes as excuses for violence. And of course, people also use things like money, shiny rocks, petroleum, and the desire for land as excuses for violence.

In other words, religion is no more a cause of violence than any other pretext for violence. Eliminate every religion from the face of the planet & humankind will continue to commit violence with no reduction whatsoever.

In my ideal world, parents should pass on their wisdom to their children, while being careful not to cross the line between advice and indoctrination.

But how is that possible in a world where the vast majority of people are religious and/or spiritual? Who decides where "wanting what's best for a dependent or child" becomes "indoctrination"?

I don't think in 'rights', as I think only a slave has need of 'rights'.

Then what about property rights and intellectual rights? Or the right for a parent to be able to raise his/her own child?

You should look up "The Stolen Generations", which involved a program where the Australian govt literally attempted to "breed out the black" of Aboriginal children. It involved govt-sanctioned kidnappings child confiscation where Aboriginal children were forcibly taken from their families and raised by white families. The goal was literally to indoctrinate the children into white Australian culture while denying them the upbringing from their native cultures.

Canada did a similar series of programs with its First Nations children, and the US had a similar program against Native Americans, too. They literally changed the children's names, raised them to only speak European languages, raised them to reject their native cultures, raised them to reject their Native religions in favor of European versions of Christianity, etc. You can find a countless amount of info online, but here's a website to get you started (HERE).

I'm pointing this out because this is the very real result of proposals like your own. I don't think you'd try to take it this far, but these are recent examples of what happens when outsiders mandate that children are being wrongfully "indoctrinated" into specific beliefs. I say "recent" examples because these programs generally lasted from the late 1800s to the 1970s-1980s.

ETA: One of the books that's referenced in the article I quoted is literally called "Kill the Indian, Save the Man" by Ward Churchill. Is that really any different than "Kill the theist, save the man"?

a reply to: Grimmley

The Church, at its core, is an organization that has one singular goal. To convert as many people as possible to its agenda. The dream is to convert the whole of humanity into followers. It never encourages individual thinking or freedom of expression for that matter. The bottom line is profit, profit, profit and it's more or less a zero-sum game, as it provides nothing positive to anyone.

From this point of view, one could easily draw parallels to totalitarian regimes and terrorist organizations. In fact, the Church has given its support to such endeavors for hundreds of years.

But the Church is simply the mechanism through which the dogma is advanced and protected. The important thing is that its dogma is a carefully constructed masterpiece of thought control, designed to enslave the mind, as well as the spirit. The end goal of this dogma is absolute spiritual oppression. It's as if it's trying to extract your soul.

The whole structure of this dogma is a pattern of various atrocious ideas, who serve to support each other. If I were to introduce the Bible to a 15-year old kid, who has had no previous experience with such things, he'd be astounded at the stuff that's written there.

And it is not the Church that I am currently attacking, or the Dogma as a whole. I am against the spreading of the particular atrocious elements of 'faith' such as 'eternity in Hell for the unbelievers', various guilt trips, ideas like original sin, the general advocacy of abdication of responsibility and human dignity.

These ideas are simply offensive to humanity as a whole.

If somebody was printing a newspaper filled with atrocities, and it gained enough followers to stay in business, I'd still like it banned from my country. How'd you like to see severed heads, people eating #, and so on.. ?

To listen to these Christians spread their atrocious views around, is like watching brain surgery (which is ironic, because it's an attempt of such in a way). I find it repulsive and I'd like people and society as a whole to know that I do. While everyone is defending freedom of opinion.. Well, it is my opinion that someone should put a stop to religious proselytizing. Don't I have a right to my opinion as well?

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Religious proselytizing is not an incentive to violence. It itself is violence. From your own point of view, we might as well give up on trying to make a better world.

Well, sadly, we need these rights, as we are slaves. Slaves to society, and the various governments and also to those who possess a large enough percentage of the money supply, plus the various dictators and the secret societies behind the various Churches.. etc.

What we should ideally strive for is to liberate ourselves from the trap that we find ourselves in. It's not always perceived as a trap. Happy people want to live forever. But once one has had enough of experiential loops, one starts to realize that he has the choice, whether or not he will fight for a better world or not.

This Australian program is atrocious at its core. I suppose that you would oppose it if you had the chance. But what the Church is doing is not very different. Institutionalized mind control and mass delusion, the indoctrination of the whole world into one mode of thinking and behavior.. a subtle, but very powerful way to influence global politics.. In the end it inevitably results in stuff like racism, oppression, crimes against humanity.. Why wait for them to strike again? It's been a calm before the storm for some time. It seems now that the general plan is for the Islamic Caliphate to get a lot of ground and eventually energize a resurgence of Christianity as a 'problem-reaction-solution' plan.

Why argue for the rights of the Church, while you are opposed to its inevitable ends?

But even if we ignored the long-term, I simply find it obnoxious for people to be allowed to wield this finely crafted instrument for the infliction of brain damage.. The Bible is the first weapon of mass destruction (in our known history). It is arguably scarier than nuclear weapons. The Qu'ran is simply the latest installment, and make no mistake - they are planning on playing this card to its utmost advantage too.. In fact, they're doing it as we speak.

But we don't even need to consider all of this. We need only look at what happens at the level of the individual. It is precisely those who are disadvantaged that fall under the spell. And if you do not give the Christian religion the benefit of the doubt, as you shouldn't, it turns out that we idly accept for other people to be indoctrinated into a cult and reduced to the level of psychotic victims.

I'd say that we have a choice. Either fight evil whenever and wherever we encounter it.. Or not. Why should we ignore one evil in order to focus on another? And to be fair, it is exactly this tolerance that is the main weapon of evil. I know of two things that give evil its power. One is fear, as that directly gives your power away to the oppressor. The other is tolerance - to see the evil, but decide to remain idle. One could argue that mercy is also a tool that evil leverages in its own defense. I believe, that if we do not indulge in those three, evil can be defeated. But if we do decide to tolerate evil, then it's pretty much decided.

I don't see how the refusal to tolerate religious modes of thinking will create further atrocities. Care to explain how that would happen in detail?

a reply to: Rhaegar7

Aye you have a right to your opinion as does everyone else. Everyone also has a right to believe in what religion that they choose too. Now with that said, no one is forcing you to choose that religion, and no one can force you to believe in one religion. My personal beliefs are just that personal. I choose not to go around and talk to everyone about it, on the other hand I do not support the banning of anyone discussing and trying to convert to any particular religion. Now if someone trys to force anyone to take a religion then we have a problem. Censorship and Political Correctness is nothing but the control of ideas, information and control of thought, I do not, will not, every agree to it.

Grim

What made me create this topic is the realization that I really feel pained whenever I encounter people abusing these religious modes of thinking. And the very dogma incentivizes them to do so. The goal of the religion is to spread as far as possible.

I admit. It basically triggers me to read about people 'basking in the light of salvation', and 'being saved in Jesus Christ', and preaching to others that, they too need only find Jesus and miracles will happen..

OK, I admit, I'm a case - I got low-functioning Asperger, major depression, various psychotic overtones.. But is it me that is insane, or everyone else?!

a reply to: Rhaegar7

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness. but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

a reply to: Rhaegar7

So you dislike being proselytized to, and your response is to come here and proselytize to us?

a reply to: Rhaegar7

That takes some Cojones to admit and for that I have to applaud you.

We all have our skeletons in the closet but few of us are willing to drag them out in public.

Am still curious how you feel about that question I posed about atheism.

(Has it ever once crossed your mind that just MAYBE atheism might just be the real propaganda?)

I am 1000% convinced it is BTW...

ketsuko just made a very important point...

I hope you can see it for what it really is.

a reply to: luke1212

)) That's awesome. Please go on! (no sacrasm, I do find it enjoyable)

a reply to: Murgatroid

The 'scientism' dogma that is being forced down our throats for the last 100 years or more, is indeed part of the same mind control agenda. 'Science as a candle in the dark' bla bla bla, 'relinquish your mind to authority figures', 'conform, conform, conform', 'we'll tell you how to think'..

They are switching up to a more modern form of mind control. They've been doing this for thousands of years. In fact, the popular theories suggest that the alien races who are behind all this have been doing this for *billions and billions* of years. They are light years ahead of us in terms of preparation. The system of control has thousands of layers, and every few hundred or thousand years, they decide it is time to change it up a little. In that way, they harvest us to the fullest extent possible.

They are playing around with a whole assortment of mind control weapons. Christianity, Islam, Scientism, Communism.. to name a few.

The rejection of organized religions and all sorts of mind control agendas is, I assure you, not part of the mind control agenda.

You can be an Atheist who believes in a perfect Creation and a perfect Creator. That's what a Deist means.

I don't feel like I am proselytizing. I am trying to support my view points with rational arguments. No matter how hard I argue, I don't see myself crossing the boundary into proselytizing.

Maybe I do sound like I am preaching a bit? But there is a fine line between coercive lunacy and trying to drive a hard argument.