multiple vegas shooters? please present your best evidence

i would like to say im a skeptic, more like a cynic. i dont trust any story untill ive researched both sides, angles, positions, views etc...

now onto the vegas massacre on oct. 1...
at this point i am going to say paddock was the only shooter perpurtating the attack. i am open to and not rejecting that there could have been more shooters, however i see no solid evidence to support this.

so ATS if you believe there were multiple shooters please provide what you think is "the best , most concrete, irrefutable proof" i will offer my counter points if i have any to your evidence.

and to keep this coherent and on topic, your proof has to be something more than just saying you herd this or that, others saw x y and z. you need proof to validate your evidence. hope to hear from you.

No offence meant, but these types of threads are kinda baity and pointless.
The information you're requesting has been discussed on this site and many others in length.
Do a quick search, read, and join in on a discussion instead of requiring people to hand deliver you an arguement.

originally posted by: caterpillage
No offence meant, but these types of threads are kinda baity and pointless.
The information you're requesting has been discussed on this site and many others in length.
Do a quick search, read, and join in on a discussion instead of requiring people to hand deliver you an arguement.

those threads are useless now, page after page of off topic responses and the majority of the threads going the direction of side stories that pop up, this is my opinion. please no more responses unless it is to adress my original question or to ask relevant questions about my post.

Multiple witness accounts of at least one other guy on the ground.
There is obviously more than one "type" of gun in the audio.
I'm hearing the distinctive crack of a 5.56 but also what I would guess to be the report of a 7.62.
This would be revealed in forensic exams, which I have been unable to find.

originally posted by: skunkape23
Multiple witness accounts of at least one other guy on the ground.
There is obviously more than one "type" of gun in the audio.
I'm hearing the distinctive crack of a 5.56 but also what I would guess to be the report of a 7.62.
This would be revealed in forensic exams, which I have been unable to find.

multiple witness accounts are meaningless unless they can be collaborated with tangible proof such as video evidence. no video evidence has surfaced of a ground shooter. just because there maybe 7.62 rounds fired does not mean more than one shooter. paddock took a cache of weapons up there, it would not surprise me if he brought along some ak47 platform, and shot into the crowd with it.

again we don't know what he fired and what weapons he used, the evidence is too weak to say "multiple shooters "

originally posted by: jgarc028

originally posted by: skunkape23
Multiple witness accounts of at least one other guy on the ground.
There is obviously more than one "type" of gun in the audio.
I'm hearing the distinctive crack of a 5.56 but also what I would guess to be the report of a 7.62.
This would be revealed in forensic exams, which I have been unable to find.

multiple witness accounts are meaningless unless they can be collaborated with tangible proof such as video evidence. no video evidence has surfaced of a ground shooter. just because there maybe 7.62 rounds fired does not mean more than one shooter. paddock took a cache of weapons up there, it would not surprise me if he brought along some ak47 platform, and shot into the crowd with it.

again we don't know what he fired and what weapons he used, the evidence is too weak to say "multiple shooters "

We have a darn good idea now what he had available to use. I made this post in a related thread this past week. It has a link to the LVPD report, listing all the weapons found in the rooms....detailed information. It also has photos of the scene, showing the weapons.

Link to my original post
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Here is a link to the recently released 81 page LV Police report, in PDF format.

LVMPD Preliminary Investigative Report (PDF)

I have not reviewed it fully yet, but wanted to share with ATS folks here that have more time than I do go through it more fully.

About the report, from the previously linked FoxNews article:

Police also released a new 81-page preliminary investigative report on the shooting Friday, containing new photographs of Paddock's hotel suite and information on "items of evidentiary value recovered from various scenes."

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a reply to: Krakatoa

i do like the tangible evidence you provide, but again were left in the dark and will be for a long time. yes we know the weapons paddock brought up as told by "them" but we dont have the stats to back up anything...

I.E. how many .223 shell casings were found in the suite, how many 5.56x45 casing were found, how many 7.62 casings were found etc... of the bullets recovered from the shooting, how many are metalellirgucal matches to the guns in the suite? do the number of bullets recovered and analyzed match up with the number of rounds fired for that particular type?

a reply to: jgarc028

Well if you don't trust "them", and they are the only ones with access to the suite, you will never have your answer, ever. So this thread would be useless, and a chore of folly even to try.

So far this report is the only evidence. It is not a final report, it is an interim report. The next public report released may have more forensic details; which weapons were left with power residue int e barrel (indicating they were fired), tests for powder residue on the window curtains (that would shed light on which windows he actually fired from), The full accounting of spent shell casings with caliber and location.

But, if you don't want to believe "them" then even that would not be accepted.

See the paradox? It will remain a persistent unsolved mystery state, open to baseless speculation forever.

a reply to: Krakatoa

i dont trust or believe "them" at the moment, not enough information. and you make an excellent point, for me to be satisfied with a conclusion would involve all and then more of what you said, gun shot residue accumulation, rounds fired through a particular rifle, gun shot residue on paddock, manufacture of rounds, batch of rounds etc... i think we both think the same.

with that said i really opened this thread for others to give me the best evidence they have to suggest or imply multiple shooters, as stated before, ill give my opinions and views to thier responses

I assume you have watched this video and can debunk all of Mike Adams claims. I would appreciate hearing your counter points as I lack the forensic skills necessary to adequately refute his analysis

a reply to: jgarc028

I cannot present you evidence as, lets be honest to this day we didnt receive much information. That being said, to answer your question why I believe there were at least two shooters... There were two rooms with broken windows, there is evidence of that. Swat had to use a charge to open the adjoining door between the two rooms because it was locked from the inside of the second room. For me it does not sound very life like that paddock locked that door from the inside then used the entrance door to exit the smaller room and entered the other room using its main entrance door.

a reply to: jgarc028

Just like 911,it defies logic,no way in t5he world a guy smuggled weapons,and the shot's were not straight ,they were comming in at different angles and the report didn't match a single gun, MSM story is just that,it was a liberal's way of a gun grab,to them a human life is worth it for their cause

a reply to: jgarc028

I find your approach to the topic very curious. Not skeptical... nor cynical... more like defiant. As if you have a vested interest in propping up the "lone gunman" story as opposed to multiple shooters. We all would like to know the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth... I don't understand why you seem to prefer the official story...

But that's neither here nor there. For your education and information:

Vegas: Multiple Survivors/Eyewitness Tell of Multiple Shooters at Multiple Casinos

There is a wealth of information in the above thread for anyone interested. There is no "proof" of anything, but there is plenty of evidence. From the eyewitness statements of survivors, correlated with police audio, to other potential sniper positions surrounding the venue, and everything in between. Yes, it's a lot to read, and yes, there were some less than helpful comments. But for the most part, it's a shining example of the best of ATS. One of many recent examples where our members come together to discuss and dissect and debate in the most practical and productive ways. It's pretty darn awesome to behold!

But back to the topic at hand, I have opinions and best guesses -- just like you. We can argue about our opinions until the cows come home, but it would be nothing more than an exercise in futility -- and EGO. No one hear knows the whole truth. If you just want to be "right", then I can't help you. No one can. That's all on you. But information is out there if you genuinely want to know...

He used M16/M4 type weapons, yet opted for semi auto. He could have submitted fingerprints and gotten full autos. Or used guns made to spray (Ak for example, which is super easy to attach shoe string auto to, which would be much more precise than a bouncey stock AR, and also have an adjustable fire rate)

It just doesn't make sense he'd go through all the trouble and risk, and use ARs,the poster child evil black gun with no perks. Also the two numbers thrown around were 17 and 23. The two numbers I always see over and over in media symbology.

If the guns were shoe stringed AKs with 100 round drums, it would make more sense. But it was the same ARs the new media always shows. Why 10 suit cases... Again, unnecessary risk just to have a nice post mortem AR display.

The whole point of your thread is to bait people and tell them why you think they’re wrong. You’re asking for their best evidence so you can try to destroy their opinions without offering your own evidence o why you think he was the lone gunman. Maybe start the debate with your own “evidence” and opinions first. Had you done that, I would’ve been more inclined to engage the topic at hand instead of pointing out the hook embedded in the worm you’re dangling.

The reality is that nobody here has ANY evidence one way or the other. It's only conjecture and what each individual thinks or believes happened. There is absolutely no evidence anywhere except with the actual investigation. Anything relied on from Youtube or armchair detectives is not evidence of anything to support one shooter or multiple shooters.