The “Promised Land” Belongs to Palestinians and Jews

originally posted by: mamabeth
a reply to: Sahabi


There will be no peace until Yeshua/Jesus returns! From my understanding of
Islam,there will be no peace until Israel is "wiped off the map". I have nothing
more to say on this topic.

I bet you have nothing to say after I asked you to provide scripture, historic accounts, or science to substantiate your false claims after I have systematically debunked each and every one of your claims.

The Israeli Jews are not awaiting the return of Jesus, so that statement of yours is null and void. But the Christian Palestinians are indeed awaiting the return of Jesus. See, the Palestinians are on your side after all!

Israel didn’t even exist at the time of Islam’s Prophet Muhammad,.... so your claim that Israel is to be wiped off the map is NOT taught by Islamic sources, but instead, is propagated by some groups/individuals of modern day Arabs and Islamic fanatics.

Wrong on all points by scriptural, historic, and scientific evidence, but continue closing your eyes with your fingers in your ears. How sad!

How morally depraved can people be?!

Let’s pick a side between either the Israeli-Jews or Palestinians, and then let’s cheer them on to murder, conquer, and destroy the other.

Holy hell, we are talking about human beings! This is not some sick spectator sport. People have lost their humanity in thinking that this conflict is akin to a soccer/football match. Sick, sick, sick!!!!!

Peace for all in the Levant! Israelis, Jews, and Palestinians alike.

Maybe to avoid hurt feelings and misunderstandings,the land
belongs to God.We should let Him decide and go from there.
Besides,getting right with God is more important than squabbling
over land ownership!

a reply to: Sahabi

What an insensitive thing to allege! I guess all “oriental people” are Chinese too? You can not distinguish between them, but I and others sure can!
An “Arab” is actually and simply a person who speaks the Arabic language. Arab speakers all over the world belong to different ethnic groups and cultures. If you take the time to interact with Palestinians, Syrians, Lebanese, or Iraqi People, you will clearly see that they are culturally different. For crying out loud,.... these are the modern progeny of the Canaanites, Assyrians, and Babylonians. You do realize that these are vastly different people with vastly different histories and cultures? They even look different from one another and speak different dialects of Arabic.

And yet, there are all Arab. As I see it, you just don’t understand the very well how this works. A people doesn’t have to be homogenous. They can of course, but its very common for a people to consist of different groups, tribes, national miniorites etc.

Take another example to illustrate the point. Germans. There are no homogenous German people. Never have, mabye never will. The indigenous German people are composed of literally dozens of smaller groups with vast cultural and historic differences. And yes, the even ‘look different’ (how would that be relevant, you don’t seem to understand how genetics work either) and speak different dialects of German. They are not even living all the same country for crying out loud, Austrians are German people too for example. And yet nobody in their right mind would claim Frisians living on the German and Dutch Coast are not as German as Bajuwaren dwelling in the shadow of the alps.

Its no different with the Arab People. Of course there are difference between different nationalities, just as there are differences within each nationality. But those differences are nowhere near enough to make them a different people.
Anyway, your main fallacy is assuming genetics make a people. They don’t. You cannot assort claims based on genetics if everything else what constitutes a people has been lost. Based on your argument no people anywhere would ever go extinct and we could assort claims from here unto all eternity and never get anywhere.
It wont work as an argument and it certainly wont lead to peace.

Oh and about that:

God did not mention Sarah nor any woman, He simply told Abraham that " a son who is your own flesh and blood will be your heir."

This is simply wrong. You are conveniently ignoring scripture that doesn’t suite your agenda.

Genesis 17 17-22

Then Abraham fell on his face and laughed, and said in his heart, “Shall a child be born to a man who is one hundred years old? And shall Sarah, who is ninety years old, bear a child?” 18 And Abraham said to God, “Oh, that Ishmael might live before You!”
19 Then God said: “No, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his descendants after him. 20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard you. Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall beget twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation. 21 But My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah shall bear to you at this set time next year.” 22 Then He finished talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.

God chose Isaac, not Ishmael. And this is what actually happened according to scripture:
Issac became Abrahams heir and God continued his work with him. God not only promised Abraham the land, he renewed this promise with the later patriachs. At no point God included Ishmael in this promise. He blessed him and made him the progenitor of many people, but no promised land for him, sorry.

I know where you’re coming from and where you get your ideas. You no doubt have good intentions, but sorry, your arguments have enough holes to drive a Merkava through

Another take based on your points:

(1) The ancestors of the Palestinians were the ones who were attacked and displaced by Joshua and the Hebrew Israelites.
(2) These ancestors of the Palestinians continued to live in the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah due to the fact that the Hebrew Israelites fell short of the absolute genocide that YHWH commanded.

– people indigenous to the area were attacked and displaced by Joshua and the Israelites. Those people dont exist anymore today. The Jews are still around because they preserved their heritage.

(3) The ancestors of the Palestinians continued to live in the Levant during and after the Babylonian Captivity and Assyrian Exile.

– actually this was probably pretty much the point when all those people went extinct. Due to all the conquests and resettlements (your are going to ignore this, right? ) by invading empires, most people lost their distinct identity and were ABSORBED into the population of those empires. Only the Jews managed to preserve their heritage in capativity and managed to return. All those Canaanites, Philistines or whatever are gone and wont return because their heritage was lost, no matter what genetics you find today.

(4) The Palestinians were residing in Mandatory Palestine before the great aliyot and declaration of the State of Israel
– sure, Palestinians as in Arabs and Jews living there.

(5) The Palestinians continue to inhabit the Levant today.
– sure, but when we say Palestinians today we are referring to Arabs. Palestinian Jews from the pre 48 era became Israeli and don’t identify as Palestinian anymore.

(6) Many Palestinians have been confirmed to be the direct offspring of Hebrew Israelite Jews
- offspring as far as some of their ancestors had a genetic makeup today associated with people living in the Levant a couple of thousand years ago. Not relevant for anything because the heritage was lost.

Its clear cut, really.

a reply to: mightmight

Genetics is not the argument, for it only supports the physical and empirical demographic factuality: The Palestinian People, by a plethora of ancestral names, have always been inhabitants of the Levant.

Tis but thy name that is mine enemy:
What’s Montague? It is not hand nor foot,
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part.
What’s in a name? That which we call a rose,
By any other name would smell as sweet.

- “Romeo and Juliet”, William Shakespeare

a reply to: Sahabi
The Palestinian People are inhabitants of the land. What more do you need?
Just because the Jews can assert an historic/relgious claim on the land doesnt mean the Palestinians have to move or something. They are a people too - just not the people you want them to be - and have a natural right to self determination.
This right however, does not include the right to try to destroy the State of Israel or the Jewish people. They too have a right to self determination and an equally natural right to self defense. Which is why there is conflict without any side being wrong in principle.

originally posted by: mamabeth
Maybe to avoid hurt feelings and misunderstandings,the land
belongs to God.We should let Him decide and go from there.
Besides,getting right with God is more important than squabbling
over land ownership!

Mamabeth - very well said. Right to the point of points.
I hope you're feeling better these days.
Merry Christmas to you and yours!

a reply to: mightmight

That is what I have been saying the entire time. I am NOT pro-Palestinian nor pro-Jew, I am for reconciliation, peace, and unity. I am for the free and safe living of all, and the expulsion of none.

a reply to: Sahabi

if only the people knew what Yasser Arafat did with the 18 billion plus dollars that was supposed to be for aid yet mostly turned up in swiss bank accounts and the fact that he was Egyptian not Jordanian , so he came he yelled he stole from the people and became a champion of the people he urinated on all the way to the bank whilst eating lobsters and drinking dom perignon as they starved and cheered for him well done , probably the biggest con in history